Lewes - Network SouthEast in 1987

[South Central]

Hopefully managed to knock the goods traffic deliberations on the head, with the arrival of this today:

 

 

...and there's a heck of a lot more than I expected! For the layout, the freight traffic up for modelling extends to:

 

(pass Lewes 0837)                         0730 MSX           Norwood Down Yard - Galley Hill oil tanks ('Q' path)

(call Lewes 0932 - crew change)    0919 MWTHO    Newhaven Hall Aggregates - Crawley New Yard RMC 

(pass Lewes 1035)                         1001 FO             Crawley New Yard - St. Leonards West Marina TMD departmental

(pass Lewes 1150)                         1138 SX              Newhaven Hall Aggregates - Crawley New Yard RMC ('Q' path)

(pass Lewes 1219)                         1040 SX              Willesden - Newhaven Marine freightliner 

(pass Lewes 1337)                         1144 MSX           Galley Hill - Norwood Down Yard oil tanks ('Q' path)

(pass Lewes 1359)                         1315 MWTHO    Crawley New Yard RMC - Newhaven Hall Aggregates hoppers

(pass Lewes 1405)                         1353 SX              Newhaven Marine - Willesden freightliner

(pass Lewes 1510)                         1225 FO             Tolworth - Newhaven Hall Aggregates hoppers (electro-diesel)

(pass Lewes 1515)                         1346 FO             St. Leonards West Marina TMD - Crawley New Yard departmental

(pass Lewes 1559)                         1515 SX              Crawley New Yard RMC - Newhaven Hall Aggregates ('Q' path) 

(pass Lewes 2108)                         2055 THO           Newhaven Hall Aggregates - Clapham Yard hoppers (electro-diesel)

 

Apart from the two workings annotated for class 73 haulage, all the above are timed for diesel traction - presumably a 47 (subclass?) for the Newhaven Marine freightliner and 33s for everything else.

 

As for the wagons now added to the workbench wishlist, well i've already come clean about my complete lack of knowledge about goods rolling stock! A rake of RMC orange-livered JGAs for the aggregates trips will evidently be essential (modified Bachmann JGA to the first design spec seems most likely), along with a rake of battered and bruised Grampus for the Friday departmentals. If someone could identify what type of tank wagon might have been running to/from Galley Hill, that would be a big help. And as for what type of freightliner container flat I might need to model...search me!

 

PS. As an aside, this freight timetable makes for fascinating reading in the context of the modern day freight desert we have nowadays on the Sussex coast. This edition - section WK - covers everything from Weymouth right across to Ramsgate and up to London, so if anyone's planning an 80s layout on the Southern region and is curious about freight, i'll happily have a search for you - like me, you might be surprised how much you can model!

 

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hello South Central,

 

I spent quite a lot of time in the late 90s/early 00s travelling to and from Lewes for one reason or another.  It always struck me as an interesting location to model.

 

For your period the hoppers on the Newhaven trains were the 13 PHA-coded hoppers built by Standard Wagon in 1984 for Hall Aggregates.  These had curved sides and an attractive livery of orange with a horizontal white stripe.  They also carried the RMC diamond.  They differed from the later batch built for RMC by the same manufacturer in missing the curved top end, though this was later added when they were assimilated into the rest of the RMC fleet to work out of Peak Forest.

 

There is a kit for this type in N, but I don't think there is one in OO.

 

They are different to the flat sided JGA wagons that Bachmann do; though if wagons aren't your thing then I imagine the Bachmann models would be acceptable stand-ins.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[South Central]

For your period the hoppers on the Newhaven trains were the 13 PHA-coded hoppers built by Standard Wagon in 1984 for Hall Aggregates.  These had curved sides and an attractive livery of orange with a horizontal white stripe.  They also carried the RMC diamond.  They differed from the later batch built for RMC by the same manufacturer in missing the curved top end, though this was later added when they were assimilated into the rest of the RMC fleet to work out of Peak Forest.

 

They are different to the flat sided JGA wagons that Bachmann do; though if wagons aren't your thing then I imagine the Bachmann models would be acceptable stand-ins.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Thanks for the info Ben, much appreciated. All this freight stock will be losing the battle with MUs for space on the workbench for a little while yet, so plenty of time for wagon homework! When the time comes, i'll no doubt open it up for debate on the relevant sub-forum.

 

A quick side-by-side glance at the Bachmann JGA and a shot of one of this batch of PHAs confirms the hopper body differences you mention, but also reveals different bogies and chassis details - drat! To the untrained eye, the two types appear to be the same length at least/ I could probably live with compromising on having the incorrect bogies and chassis minutiae,  and set about scratchbuilding the "correct" PHA hopper body and mount it on a Bachmann JGA chassis. We'll see. 

[Oldddudders]

I think the Galley Hill tanks might have been 4-wheel. And no connection with Alan Galley who signed the WTT! I think he ended up running Freightliner in the late '90s.

 

Rather more than a decade before, in my Control days, ISTR more than one derailment inside-clear at Galley Hill, suggesting the p-way wasn't of the best, so I'm not sure bogie tanks would have been a good idea.

[South Central]

I think the Galley Hill tanks might have been 4-wheel. And no connection with Alan Galley who signed the WTT! I think he ended up running Freightliner in the late '90s.

 

Rather more than a decade before, in my Control days, ISTR more than one derailment inside-clear at Galley Hill, suggesting the p-way wasn't of the best, so I'm not sure bogie tanks would have been a good idea.

 

Having found a few piccies of similar trains to Cory Oil's other depots on the Central and SED (Selsdon, High Brooms, etc.) on flickr, going by their very informative captions i'm going to stick my neck out and say it's TTA tanks were after. As for how many in a rake, it seems I can get away with anything from one to ten-plus depending on the time of year. Furthermore, the state of the tanks used seemed to range from the down-right filthy to the pristine, as seen in Adrian Nicholls shot on flickr: 

 

73 119 & 126 at Tonbridge West Yard with train 6H43. 1990. by Adrian Nicholls, on Flickr

 

Modelling these would certainly suit my limited weathering skills!

[Grizz]

Hi South Central. How goes the Lewes layout, I realise that it has been sometime since the last posting here, but I've just come across this thread and it really took me back when I saw the photo of the working timetable as it was the year I joined BR on the Central Division of the Southern Region. Wow what a great subject, such history at Lewes.

 

I remember the time you are modelling quite well. In the early / mid 1980s my folks bought the old gate keepers cottage on the original single track Lewes to East Grinstead railway at Hamsey just north of Lewes. It was on the 1858-1868 single track route that left the Lewes to Keymer Junction (KJE1) route and it would have crossed what is now Ivors Lane (the lane was named after my brother following his death in 1996).

 

As you probably know the railway gradient rises as it leaves Lewes towards Keymer Junction, through the tunnel and then out towards Hamsey Bank. It is quite a steep climb all the way through Cooksbridge and on towards Plumpton. When we first moved there BR kept the trees and vegetation cut right back, so we had really clear views of the line on Hamsey Bank. The list of freight you had in one of the earlier postings I remember really well. Answering a question on the Galley Hill Tanks, they were in the main TTAs, usually very dirty and heavily weathered in modelling terms. Occasionally a TEA bogie tank was attached to the rear, but not often.

 

I have such great memories of really heavily loaded RMC Aggregate orange / white JGAs and pairs of BR Blue Class 33s grinding up from Lewes. They could be heard long before they could be seen. With 12 to 13 loaded wagons they were nearly down to walking pace by the time they reached Hamsey AHBC (The Drove). These workings also paired 33/73s or rarely pairs of 73s. In later years they were worked by class 56s, 58s and 60s, before the South Central Division in East Sussex lost all the workings. This left only Gypsum at Mountfield as the only regular freight in the whole of East Sussex for 15/20 years. It wasn't until the Newhaven ash trains started that we got any freight here.

 

The other odd stuff around at the time, real trains wise, for approx a year was the class 47 hauled Intercity from Manchester to Newhaven. This ran late in the evening down to Newhaven, in the summer it was a 47 with nine coaches. Always a Mk1 Full brake, usually in IC red white stripe, mk2 air cons in a mix of blue n grey and intercity red / white stripe. 47500 Great Western definitely was one loco that featured as my really blurred and rubbish photos record. Oh for a digital camera back then.

 

There were also some loco hauled car flats carrying Ford Transit Vans to Newhaven for export. These ran down just before dark in the summer. They were clearly visible from my garden but I used to run up to Hamsey crossing to watch it go down.

 

For some reason we had a week or so of Diesel Mechanicals in the evening going down to Hastings, they were standing in for DEMUs but I don't remember the details. Sadly I lost my note book from this time in one of our clear outs and as I said the camera was rubbish and my skills with it worse.

 

Somewhere I have a few copies of photos of Lewes given to me by an old friend of mine, sadly recently passed away, who was a Signalman at Lewes for many years. These show a BR Blue class 45 stabled in what is now Pinwell lane in Lewes, on a siding road that lead down to Cliff High Street. Another one is of a BR green class 45 heading through what is now platform 2 at Lewes with full semaphore signals on an Up interegional train back to the Midland. Another is of an Up Newhaven boat train heading through platform 2 a blue/grey CEP again with full semaphore signalling

[South Central]

Hi South Central. How goes the Lewes layout, I realise that it has been sometime since the last posting here, but I've just come across this thread and it really took me back when I saw the photo of the working timetable as it was the year I joined BR on the Central Division of the Southern Region. Wow what a great subject, such history at Lewes.

 

I remember the time you are modelling quite well. In the early / mid 1980s my folks bought the old gate keepers cottage on the original single track Lewes to East Grinstead railway at Hamsey just north of Lewes. It was on the 1858-1868 single track route that left the Lewes to Keymer Junction (KJE1) route and it would have crossed what is now Ivors Lane (the lane was named after my brother following his death in 1996).

 

As you probably know the railway gradient rises as it leaves Lewes towards Keymer Junction, through the tunnel and then out towards Hamsey Bank. It is quite a steep climb all the way through Cooksbridge and on towards Plumpton. When we first moved there BR kept the trees and vegetation cut right back, so we had really clear views of the line on Hamsey Bank. The list of freight you had in one of the earlier postings I remember really well. Answering a question on the Galley Hill Tanks, they were in the main TTAs, usually very dirty and heavily weathered in modelling terms. Occasionally a TEA bogie tank was attached to the rear, but not often.

 

I have such great memories of really heavily loaded RMC Aggregate orange / white JGAs and pairs of BR Blue Class 33s grinding up from Lewes. They could be heard long before they could be seen. With 12 to 13 loaded wagons they were nearly down to walking pace by the time they reached Hamsey AHBC (The Drove). These workings also paired 33/73s or rarely pairs of 73s. In later years they were worked by class 56s, 58s and 60s, before the South Central Division in East Sussex lost all the workings. This left only Gypsum at Mountfield as the only regular freight in the whole of East Sussex for 15/20 years. It wasn't until the Newhaven ash trains started that we got any freight here.

 

The other odd stuff around at the time, real trains wise, for approx a year was the class 47 hauled Intercity from Manchester to Newhaven. This ran late in the evening down to Newhaven, in the summer it was a 47 with nine coaches. Always a Mk1 Full brake, usually in IC red white stripe, mk2 air cons in a mix of blue n grey and intercity red / white stripe. 47500 Great Western definitely was one loco that featured as my really blurred and rubbish photos record. Oh for a digital camera back then.

 

There were also some loco hauled car flats carrying Ford Transit Vans to Newhaven for export. These ran down just before dark in the summer. They were clearly visible from my garden but I used to run up to Hamsey crossing to watch it go down.

 

For some reason we had a week or so of Diesel Mechanicals in the evening going down to Hastings, they were standing in for DEMUs but I don't remember the details. Sadly I lost my note book from this time in one of our clear outs and as I said the camera was rubbish and my skills with it worse.

 

Somewhere I have a few copies of photos of Lewes given to me by an old friend of mine, sadly recently passed away, who was a Signalman at Lewes for many years. These show a BR Blue class 45 stabled in what is now Pinwell lane in Lewes, on a siding road that lead down to Cliff High Street. Another one is of a BR green class 45 heading through what is now platform 2 at Lewes with full semaphore signals on an Up interegional train back to the Midland. Another is of an Up Newhaven boat train heading through platform 2 a blue/grey CEP again with full semaphore signalling

Hello Grizz, what a great post! Some very interesting info there about the more colourful workings in the Lewes area at the time. I only started to take an interest in Railways in the freight "drought" years you mention, which makes all the aggregates/freightliner workings all the more exotic in my eyes! The train of carflats laden with Transits is a new one on me, I will do some digging!

 

As to the Lewes layout, a new job and house move have rather scuppered plans for the time being. I have however been beavering away on the quiet scratchbuilding the platform buildings, signal box and some of the houses on Garden Street/Dorset Road, so I will get some pics when I am next at home. It's a station I love and am determined to tackle one day, and having a good few buildings "ready to place" will make the task a bit less onerous. In the meantime, I am planning another East Coastway layout in the same era but to fit my new abode's more limited space. The timber is delivered and I will post more info when I have something to show!

[phil_sutters]

I have such great memories of really heavily loaded RMC Aggregate orange / white JGAs and pairs of BR Blue Class 33s grinding up from Lewes. They could be heard long before they could be seen. With 12 to 13 loaded wagons they were nearly down to walking pace by the time they reached Hamsey AHBC (The Drove). These workings also paired 33/73s or rarely pairs of 73s. In later years they were worked by class 56s, 58s and 60s, before the South Central Division in East Sussex lost all the workings. This left only Gypsum at Mountfield as the only regular freight in the whole of East Sussex for 15/20 years. It wasn't until the Newhaven ash trains started that we got any freight here.

 

Somewhere I have a few copies of photos of Lewes given to me by an old friend of mine, sadly recently passed away, who was a Signalman at Lewes for many years. These show a BR Blue class 45 stabled in what is now Pinwell lane in Lewes, on a siding road that lead down to Cliff High Street. Another one is of a BR green class 45 heading through what is now platform 2 at Lewes with full semaphore signals on an Up interegional train back to the Midland. Another is of an Up Newhaven boat train heading through platform 2 a blue/grey CEP again with full semaphore signalling

These aggregate trains now wend their way through Lewes to supply the Day's Aggregates depot at Newhaven. Some up traffic comes from the ash residues from the Newhaven waste incinerator. Both flows run through Lewes currently. I have yet to be in Lewes when they pass through there.

 

and a far from perfect shot of Lewes signal box!

 

[number6]

Would love to see those photos of Type 4s at Lewes Grizz if you have a moment! Great memories and thanks for sharing.

 

I remember those freights from the 70s too. And have been building up a collection of 4mm Transit vans for those forthcoming Carflats to recreate that particular train. I seem to recall them running during the day as I watched them from up on the hill while at Wallands School.

 

By the time I was at secondary school there was still a goodly number of interesting freight into the 80s. The present day aggregates still shake town as they pass through although the modern 'noise' is perhaps a bit too quiet for my liking.

 

Perhaps best noise of the 80s were the very late night DEMUs to/from Selhurst that seemed to disregard all speed limits and make a point of waking the whole town up as they passed through.

 

South Central - look forward to whatever you come up with. Always quality stuff.

[tjf4375]

This looks great - I'm really looking forward to seeing this one take shape. In my view there can never be too many southern 3rd rail layouts!

[Kelly]

Looks a good project, will follow with interest.

 

I'd be interested in seeing how you're getting on with the MJT sides on replica bodies, as I found the sides on the HAP are shorter than the replica bodies, suspect that is a result of the MJT sides being designed originally for the Lima bodies, which are probably slightly short.

[Grizz]

Would love to see those photos of Type 4s at Lewes Grizz if you have a moment! Great memories and thanks for sharing.

I remember those freights from the 70s too. And have been building up a collection of 4mm Transit vans for those forthcoming Carflats to recreate that particular train. I seem to recall them running during the day as I watched them from up on the hill while at Wallands School.

By the time I was at secondary school there was still a goodly number of interesting freight into the 80s. The present day aggregates still shake town as they pass through although the modern 'noise' is perhaps a bit too quiet for my liking.

Perhaps best noise of the 80s were the very late night DEMUs to/from Selhurst that seemed to disregard all speed limits and make a point of waking the whole town up as they passed through.

South Central - look forward to whatever you come up with. Always quality stuff.

Hi Number 6. It's funny how my old memory works, you're right about the timings for the transit van car flats, it was during the day. I suspect that the reason I have the impression that it ran in the evening is that I would have been out during the day so didn't often see it. I knew it ran though and depending on my whereabouts I would make the effort to try to see it. The last memory I have of it is an unidentified BR Blue 47 on a summers evening, must have been running very late, with the train braking heavily and noisily as it descended Hamsey bank near Landport (Housing Estate Lewes).

 

The Newhaven Boat Train obviously used to be timed to try to match the sailings from the port. I remember both full Blue n grey CEP formations with a Blue n grey MLV and also mixed sets of the short lived 'Jaffa Cake' London South Eastern lively CEPs with Blue n grey units. They did run as 12 CEP + 1 MLV, but also later 8 CEP + MLV. They were much more noisy than the usual EMU 421s, 422s and 423s, especially on the UP working, so I used to run out in the garden to hear them grinding up the bank.

 

All loco hauled freight and passenger trains around Sussex were of interest to me back then as they were quite rare amongst the usual diet of EMUs. Class 47s were definitely 'exotic' in my eyes back then as we considered them 'foreigners', i.e. Not allocated to any Southern BR depots. That all changed with BR sectorisation, we started to get the odd interloper although this came around the time of the 'freight drought' in East Sussex. All that was left then was when we got the odd 'Pway Engineering Trains' that ran as required to support possessions.

 

This might be of interest to those who also like modern freight. The Newhaven Day Aggregates Up working to Acton Yard usually passes through Lewes at around 12:30. It's motive power varies, Class 59/0s, 59/1s, 59/2s and Class 66/0s (ex EWS Sheds) even the 'Aggregates' liveried 66711 has put in appearance. On one rare occasion a GBRF loco and rake of new wagons ran, although I don't have all the details as I was queuing at Cooksbridge 'barriers' at the time but fairly sure it was 66774. The things you see when you don't have your camera!!!!!!

 

One other rare treat was last summer when I was working nights, this meant I was home during the day. I use the fantastic 'Sussextrains.co.uk' or 'Brief case rail' live signalling maps to help to get me to and fro from work and around our network to see trains of interest. On this particular afternoon I saw on the map that the 'Up Day Agg' was delayed at Lewes in the Up Platform 2. Turns out that 59102, with the train, had failed and it ended up blocking the up platform for 2 1/2 hours, until a suitable rescue loco could be found to retreve it. Hauled it top and tail style back to 'Days Yard' , then ran round it.

I managed to collect my son from school and tear back to Hamsey AHBC to film it. 59104 hauling a failed 59102 plus train up Hamsey bank. It could be heard at Hamesy crossing as it started from Lewes platform. Claggtastic!

Double headed 59/1 on the central division!

 

I wil try to find those photos of the class 45s and CEPs at Lewes, probably somewhere in the loft........bit of a mission but not impossible.......now where did I put my 'Indiana Jones' hat...

[acg5324]

Nice to see one of my local stations being modelled. Nice work so far. I have loads of photos on line around the area, including class 58s at Newhaven on the aggregates train. Brighton Mixed traction drivers were trained on class 56, 47, 33 and 73. There was also a DEMU ECS working between St Leonard's and Selhurst Depot.

http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com. For my pictures.

 

I also have data on all the crosscountry services on my website www.1S76.com if there is anything specific you need let me know.

[Grizz]

Hello Grizz, what a great post! Some very interesting info there about the more colourful workings in the Lewes area at the time. I only started to take an interest in Railways in the freight "drought" years you mention, which makes all the aggregates/freightliner workings all the more exotic in my eyes! The train of carflats laden with Transits is a new one on me, I will do some digging!

As to the Lewes layout, a new job and house move have rather scuppered plans for the time being. I have however been beavering away on the quiet scratchbuilding the platform buildings, signal box and some of the houses on Garden Street/Dorset Road, so I will get some pics when I am next at home. It's a station I love and am determined to tackle one day, and having a good few buildings "ready to place" will make the task a bit less onerous. In the meantime, I am planning another East Coastway layout in the same era but to fit my new abode's more limited space. The timber is delivered and I will post more info when I have something to show!

Thanks South Central. Your platform buildings and the footbridge in your original thread were superb. They are truly 'Lewes'. The level of detail you have achieved on the lift and foot bridge is fantastic. I have cowered from the rain under that footbridge for what probably amounts to a couple of days of my life in total over the years, I know it very well and you have captured the essence of it. I look forward to seeing it come together in the future. I dread to think how I would even start if we moved house, my loft layout seems to have morphed into the fabric of the building, in fact although it was build in the early 1700s I suspect it was built around my layout.......note to self, lay off the Harvey's Old past mid night on Saturdays.......

 

DEMUs. As the class 205 and 207s were a common sight at Lewes during this time it is particular irritating that the only missing livery so far from Bachmanns 205 is the one in Blue n Grey! I had a go at MJT brass sides over Mainline mk1s with tensodo power bogies, then came DC Kits and then Bachmann. Sadly still no class 207, my particular favourite as they were also 'True Uckfield Line' as well Lewes. There used to be a train from Lewes on the UP at approx 15:15 ish on a week day to London Bridge. It was either 9 or 12 DEMU 205/207 all stations to Haywards Heath, then on via Redhill. It would have been around 1983, 84, 85ish. Definitely Blue and Grey era. So wish I'd taken more notice of the details at the time, but sadly I guess I just thought it would always be there........then it wasn't.

 

Ooooooo nearly forgot the early morning 'Newspaper' train to Eastbourne. London Bridge, East Croydon, Redhill, then stations to Lewes then Polegate and Eastbourne. Usually a class 33 with 4 or so GUVs in tow. Occasionally a mk1 blue n grey BG or BSK. I 'back cabbed' that train several times getting home from a turn or PASS to and fro somewhere up the line. The warmth and drone of the cab was lovely in the winter. Strangely I don't remember any 'UP' working past Hamsey so I suspect that it went back 'UP' via Brighton.

 

Please keep us updated with your progress on 'Lewes' and your East Coastway project, it is very interesting and inspiring.

[Grizz]

Nice to see one of my local stations being modelled. Nice work so far. I have loads of photos on line around the area, including class 58s at Newhaven on the aggregates train. Brighton Mixed traction drivers were trained on class 56, 47, 33 and 73. There was also a DEMU ECS working between St Leonard's and Selhurst Depot.

http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com. For my pictures.

I also have data on all the crosscountry services on my website www.1S76.com if there is anything specific you need let me know.

ACG5324 I've viewed your websites and photos loads of times over the past few years and every time it's like a time machine taking me back to happy days and happy memories. I really didn't appreciate British Rail for what it was at the time because I thought it would always be there. I so wish I had taken more photos at the time and paid more attention to detail. Such wasted misspent youth....doh!

I did film the DEMUs empties to Selhurst in later years, from September 1996 onwards though. Again my filming quality leaves much to be desired but I did get that great sound as the wound up Hamsey bank towards the crossing. On a clear night with the wind in the right direction I could hear them coming up towards Lewes, then the sound would disappear for a bit as they slowed for the Up platform and it it reappeared as the throttle was opened out and sound echoed of the cutting sides on the London side of the tunnel.

 

Class 58s and 56s were great on that UP RMC aggregate working from Newhaven, the driver used to push it wide open and about half way through Cooksbridge platform there was always a great hissing wine from the turbos. Even with type 5 power I have seen them crawl through Cooksbridge with 12 or 13 loaded JGAs on.

[Grizz]

How about this 1980s colour phot of Lewes. This is a copy of an photo given to me by my friend Colin Packham. Sadly Colin passed away suddenly last year. He was a true Sussex gentleman, a railwayman and good friend to many people. He was a career railwayman and he recorded all aspects of it. Whilst talking one day we were discussing the changes over the years and he gave me copies of a few photos.

 

These remain his families photos and the images here are just copies of his originals he gave to me.

 

Thre is loads to see in this photo. 4 CEP 7004 in blue and grey! Almost definitely an UP Newhaven to Victoria summer boat train. Bullhead track on every road. Wooden barrow crossing at the end of platforms 6 & 7 (now 3 & 4). Semaphore signals but with many removed and the Down Platform 2 (now 1) and platform 8 (now 5) colour lights in place but with the White cross marking it out of use or no yet commissioned. The newly brick built relay / signalling equipment room would probably help to date this photo as I haven't any info. The route appears to be pulled off for the down main. Sorry about the quality of the photo, it is much better in real life but I had to photo is with my iPad to get it on here.

 

 

[Grizz]

Again these are copies of photos that were very kindly given to me by Colin Packham......

I have never shown these photos to anyone before. Colin had some really rare photos, like a fleeting glimse of Class 26 or 27, can't remember which, at Preston Park in BR Green on a cross London to Brighton coal train. He took that when he worked in the box there.

 

First off a BR Green class 45, name, number and date unknown. Probably an inter-regional express to Sheffield, Derby, Liverpool or Nottingham from either Eastbounre or Newhaven. Full semaphore signalling in place, no brick built relay room. Also platform 4 & 5 for the Uckfield in place so before the 1968/9 line closure atrocity occurred. Full wooden barrow crossings in place. But really oddly flat bottom rails in place which then reverted back to Bullhead once the S&C was ripped out and it was plain lined. Oddly enough British Railways / Rail up graded this track shortly before closure of the branch as this was actually a feature of the Uckfield line right through Malling and across Hamsey Island, on the 1868-1968 route, as old photos show.

 

[Grizz]

And now, for me at any rate, the best of the lot.

 

A BR Blue class 45, number unknown, not named., looks like the D might not be in place in front of the number. Date unknown, although it is summer ish looking at the trees etc.

This location is now in the station car park. It is adjacent to Pinwell Lane in Lewes.

If you look above the locos radiator roof vent you can see another siding road that leads off to the left and on towards Cliff High Street. I even remember the rails in place in the late 70s and early 80s in the car park next to Liptons Supermarket there, although the connection to the mains had been ripped up by then. Corrals coal yard looks sadly empty so this is probably after all domestic coal had been transferred to road haulage.

Again the quality of the photo is better in real life as I have had to do this with my iPad to get it on here. Most interesting from a buildings point of view is the ghostly gothic shadow of the huge house above the loco. This was apparently very beautiful in its day and was located at point between the main railway as it is today and the old goods avoiding lines around Lewes, which basically fanned out above where the loco is in the photo. It was accessed by the bridge above the loco. Sadly it was demolished and now sits under part of the Court Road housing development.

I have no other information about this photo as the book or paper Colin wrote the details on was lost in the passage of time. I never got around to asking Colin for the details of these photos, despite seeing him on and off loads of times, all over the place for years afterwards.........and it is to my lasting regret. However I would like to think that these photos might now inspire people to model and give them every justifiable reason to shove a BR Blue or Green Peak at a Central Division location.

[Grizz]

Straining every memory cell in my brain I do recall discussing with Colin numerous problems that occurred with foreign locos down here in the 'Deep South'. Basically what could be done with them if they failed. Looking at the photo of the Peak it is totally possible that it has been dumped following a failure of some kind and it is awaiting 'Fitters' or just dragging back to the Midland.

 

Once these roads, in the car park area now, were ripped out the only place left to dump failures at Lewes was the wall siding adjacent to what is now platform 5. There have been some classics in there over the years. I have some very dodgy film of what I recall was a class 58 dragging the smashed up remains of 4 CIG 1850 up Hamsey Bank following the the collision at Lewes.

[Pete the Elaner]

I have just seen this thread for the first time.

I am also building a layout based on a real location.

 

I am finding that recreating a real location may be more challenging than creating something fictitious but it is much more rewarding.

It is also teaching me how to create buildings, something which I had never previously made a good job of.

[South Central]

Thanks South Central. Your platform buildings and the footbridge in your original thread were superb. They are truly 'Lewes'. The level of detail you have achieved on the lift and foot bridge is fantastic. I have cowered from the rain under that footbridge for what probably amounts to a couple of days of my life in total over the years, I know it very well and you have captured the essence of it. I look forward to seeing it come together in the future. I dread to think how I would even start if we moved house, my loft layout seems to have morphed into the fabric of the building, in fact although it was build in the early 1700s I suspect it was built around my layout.......note to self, lay off the Harvey's Old past mid night on Saturdays.......

 

DEMUs. As the class 205 and 207s were a common sight at Lewes during this time it is particular irritating that the only missing livery so far from Bachmanns 205 is the one in Blue n Grey! I had a go at MJT brass sides over Mainline mk1s with tensodo power bogies, then came DC Kits and then Bachmann. Sadly still no class 207, my particular favourite as they were also 'True Uckfield Line' as well Lewes. There used to be a train from Lewes on the UP at approx 15:15 ish on a week day to London Bridge. It was either 9 or 12 DEMU 205/207 all stations to Haywards Heath, then on via Redhill. It would have been around 1983, 84, 85ish. Definitely Blue and Grey era. So wish I'd taken more notice of the details at the time, but sadly I guess I just thought it would always be there........then it wasn't.

 

Ooooooo nearly forgot the early morning 'Newspaper' train to Eastbourne. London Bridge, East Croydon, Redhill, then stations to Lewes then Polegate and Eastbourne. Usually a class 33 with 4 or so GUVs in tow. Occasionally a mk1 blue n grey BG or BSK. I 'back cabbed' that train several times getting home from a turn or PASS to and fro somewhere up the line. The warmth and drone of the cab was lovely in the winter. Strangely I don't remember any 'UP' working past Hamsey so I suspect that it went back 'UP' via Brighton.

 

Please keep us updated with your progress on 'Lewes' and your East Coastway project, it is very interesting and inspiring.

 

Grizz, keep the memories coming as this is all invaluable info. I'm particularly chuffed you mention the appearance of 'Jaffa Cake' CEPs on the Newhaven boat trains, as i'd until now feared that the 'Kent Coasters' had been ousted from these duties by 1987ish. Chatting to an ex-BR chap, he reckoned that the Hastings electrification meant the SED would no longer have CEPs to spare, hence the recall of the four wonderfully curious 4TEP buffet units from the Central in early 1986.  Your info suggests MLV+8CEP rakes might have clung on a bit longer on Newhaven runs. Alas, given the time of day they ran, there appear to be no photos of them on these workings.

 

I'm also pleased to learn that the occasional TEA appeared on the Galley Hill runs. Now this is a big ask, but here goes, you don't have any idea what colour scheme it might have been wearing?! 

 

As for DEMUs, the afternoon working you mention would have been the 1530 ex-Eastbourne, to Victoria via Redhill (headcode 60). Usually a 9 car mix of Hampshires and Oxteds, although i've seen the lucky 6L Hastings unit 202001 (which clung on and served the Oxted lines after Hastings electrification) make an appearance too in photos. The morning 'down' trip started at East Croydon, and was memorable for running fast from Lewes to Eastbourne, then of course e.c.s. to West Marina after the crew changed ends. 

 

And finally those paper vans. After some shunting at Eastbourne, the 33 or 73 would take one or two vans (minus the mk1 BSK) along to Bexhill. On weekday mornings, the run-round manoeuvre would take place there, but at weekends the e.c.s continued to Hastings to reverse as I understand Bexhill box was only manned in the weekday peaks. After collecting the ditched vans and BSK at Eastbourne, the train then went to Brighton at around 8am, before presumably getting back to London later in the day. 

 

All good fun!

[Mike Storey]

I, too, have only just found this thread. I was at Brighton in '87, as SM, and covered Lewes on-call as required. I cannot add much to the detail provided above, except to say that Network SouthEast branded trains would have been an extreme rarity that year, darn sarf. At Lovers Walk, in that year, we tested the first NSE colour scheme on a 4VEP (or it may have been a 4CIG, I can't remember for sure), through our carriage washer, for Chris Green to inspect as it then ran back into Brighton station. The colours had all run into each other (due to the Exmover solution we used) and it was declared a failure. It was many months before another set was sent, using new types of paint (which did prove successful). So blue-grey and the odd Jaffa would still have been the order of the day for almost all stock.

 

One matter you might like to model is that I was often called out to Lewes on Sundays, when it was my turn to be on-call, to attend the boarding of an early evening train by Princess Margaret, who often used to spend weekends in that area. Division (or the Palace) deemed it necessary to have a grown-up present, Rumours abounded about who she spent the weekend with. But she was always completely pi....tired and emotional, and her police detective treated her like a spoilt child, and I had to intervene a number of times as she attempted to fall down the stairs or wander off the platform, when he was having a fag. You just need a bored looking police driver upstairs, and three figures downstairs - one of a dowager looking a bit puzzled, one of a bloke in standard CID mac, chain smoking, and a bloke in standard BR three piece, pin stripe suit, with mandatory bowler for royals, with his arms held out, looking bewildered..... and it was almost certainly raining.

 

Best of luck when you get the chance to progress this - looks like it could be something really special.

[Grizz]

I have just seen this thread for the first time.

I am also building a layout based on a real location.

 

I am finding that recreating a real location may be more challenging than creating something fictitious but it is much more rewarding.

It is also teaching me how to create buildings, something which I had never previously made a good job of.

Pete what is it you are building? Do you have any photos available? I agree that building the prototype and more importantly getting it looking right is very difficult. It is fairy easy to create a fictitious locality, however you still have get it looking about right and believable. I have tried both with varying results over the years.

 

The biggest problem, IMHO, is scale. Trying to fit in scale length, prototypical trains is difficult unless you own a barn. Most people have a room or loft if they are lucky. I have often said to my better half that if we ever won huge sums I would like a corridor in a long building or long building, half or a real actual real mile would do. It wouldn't have to be more than 5m wide to get in a decent curved return, but the length is critical to scale length trains. In the U.S. they coped with this issue by building ever increasing split level layouts using helix solutions. This has taken off to a degree here but it still requires a large and disproportionate area of space dedicate to the helix mad it has to be prefect to work properly.

[Pete the Elaner]

Pete what is it you are building? Do you have any photos available? I agree that building the prototype and more importantly getting it looking right is very difficult. It is fairy easy to create a fictitious locality, however you still have get it looking about right and believable. I have tried both with varying results over the years.

 

The biggest problem, IMHO, is scale. Trying to fit in scale length, prototypical trains is difficult unless you own a barn. Most people have a room or loft if they are lucky. I have often said to my better half that if we ever won huge sums I would like a corridor in a long building or long building, half or a real actual real mile would do. It wouldn't have to be more than 5m wide to get in a decent curved return, but the length is critical to scale length trains. In the U.S. they coped with this issue by building ever increasing split level layouts using helix solutions. This has taken off to a degree here but it still requires a large and disproportionate area of space dedicate to the helix mad it has to be prefect to work properly.

My layout is South Hampstead, currently circa 1940 but I also model AC electrics so I have some more boards on which I will build a 1990s scenic section.

I have not posted any pics on here. Maybe when I have made further progress.

[Grizz]

Grizz, keep the memories coming as this is all invaluable info. I'm particularly chuffed you mention the appearance of 'Jaffa Cake' CEPs on the Newhaven boat trains, as i'd until now feared that the 'Kent Coasters' had been ousted from these duties by 1987ish. Chatting to an ex-BR chap, he reckoned that the Hastings electrification meant the SED would no longer have CEPs to spare, hence the recall of the four wonderfully curious 4TEP buffet units from the Central in early 1986.  Your info suggests MLV+8CEP rakes might have clung on a bit longer on Newhaven runs. Alas, given the time of day they ran, there appear to be no photos of them on these workings.

 

I'm also pleased to learn that the occasional TEA appeared on the Galley Hill runs. Now this is a big ask, but here goes, you don't have any idea what colour scheme it might have been wearing?! 

 

As for DEMUs, the afternoon working you mention would have been the 1530 ex-Eastbourne, to Victoria via Redhill (headcode 60). Usually a 9 car mix of Hampshires and Oxteds, although i've seen the lucky 6L Hastings unit 202001 (which clung on and served the Oxted lines after Hastings electrification) make an appearance too in photos. The morning 'down' trip started at East Croydon, and was memorable for running fast from Lewes to Eastbourne, then of course e.c.s. to West Marina after the crew changed ends. 

 

And finally those paper vans. After some shunting at Eastbourne, the 33 or 73 would take one or two vans (minus the mk1 BSK) along to Bexhill. On weekday mornings, the run-round manoeuvre would take place there, but at weekends the e.c.s continued to Hastings to reverse as I understand Bexhill box was only manned in the weekday peaks. After collecting the ditched vans and BSK at Eastbourne, the train then went to Brighton at around 8am, before presumably getting back to London later in the day. 

 

All good fun!

South Central, glad to hear I'm not too boring. The CEPs on the 'Boat' were a South Eastern allocation as far as I remember as the Central didn't have an allocation at the time, at least if memory serves. They started at Victoria and probably came off Grosvenor shed. Therefore once the Jaffa livery appeared it added a random element to the train as what ever was scheduled in rolling stock maintenance rotation made up the train. I remember some CIGs getting the Jaffa Cake treatment and ending up on the Central division. The first place I ever saw one was on Grosvenor bridge waiting the road into Vic.

 

The first style NSE livery seemed to hit the 4 BIGs fairy early as a group, they were in for scheduled referbs at the time. London to Eastbourne and Hastings workings were easy to identify when running as 8 car formations because they were always 4 BIGs on the country end where as other services were formed the opposite way round. The NSE v Blue n Grey livery would have remained heavily weighted towards blue n grey through into 1988. Blue and Grey looked really good with full deep yellow ends, tops numbering and standardised data panel and number positioning.

 

The occasional TEAs on the Galley Hill Tanks were grubby brown / weathered black as far as I remember. Although to be fair the standard of tank wagon maintenance at the time was fairly hit and miss as I remember. Grubby / weathered black probably best sums it up but age does play tricks on the memory and they may have been really grubby brown with grey underneath. Don't think so though.

 

There were definitely some blue and grey EPB workings along the East Coast way Brighton to Seaford. I was on one such service on a four car one afternoon in 1987 when a huge summer thunder storm knocked out the BR traction supply. We were stranded for over an hour on the down road about half way between Southerham Junction and Southease. The non corridor stock and lack of loos was beginning to cause 'issues' by the time the juice was restored. As was the gale force winds, driving rain and lightening. Still we made it in the end, good old EPBs. These were in the good old days of jointed track and drop down windows, without the idiot bars fitted to stop moronic normals getting their heads knocked off.

 

Oh if you want to see a good idea of liveries for 87/88 ish watch the Proclaimers video '500 miles' it features 4 CIGs, Lewes station and London Road viaduct.....as well as being a great song!