South Central Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) A 4CIG EMU is arguably the most defining item of rolling stock for any Central division layout, and my model of Lewes is no exception! The starting point for this conversion is a Bachmann 4CEP. My reasoning is that under the CEP you have a ready-made 4 car EMU chassis with a great coupling system and interior lighting. I have owned one since they were released in 2010 and its performance has been flawless. Furthermore, they can be picked up easily and relatively reasonably online. The one drawback is the size of the motor in the powered coach - this will take up a couple of the 1st class compartments in the new CIG, but this is something I can live with as I barely notice at normal viewing distance it in my 4CEP, or for that matter my Hornby 4VEP. The first thing to go are the redundant CEP bodyshells and the interiors. I'm going to hang on to these for the time being, as one day they might go under the knife for conversion to a refurbished CEP for a new life as a diverted Hastings line unit in "1066 Electrics" jaffa cake livery.....unless anyone else here has a home for them?! The new CIG coach bodies will be made of MJT etched sides and cab fronts mounted on a Replica TSO donor coach, much in the style of 5Bel's 4CIG (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16452-mjtreplica-4cig/). The CEP underframes and bogies will also be suitably adapted, and a CIG interior kit will go inside. Eventually, my 4CIG will be finished in blue and grey with Network SouthEast embellishments and numbered appropriately. Provided this method proves successful, another pair of CEP chassis will form the basis of another CIG in early NSE livery and a BIG in blue and grey. Any advice would be warmly received from the many more experienced SR EMU builders here on RMweb! Edited August 6, 2016 by South Central 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 While I wait for Postman Pat to arrive with the coach bodyshells and MJT sides, i've started work below the solebar... Kicking off with the bogies, the 4CEP (being 7126, one of the "Phase 1" units) *should* have Mk 4 bogies throughout, power and trailer. The "phase 2" CEPs had Commonwealth trailer bogies to improve the ride quality. Perhaps someone in the know could confirm this? A 4CIG should have B5(S) trailer bogies, and so out comes the craft knife... The Mk 4 bogie sides came off quite easily, with no damage to the metal pick-up gear. MJT B5(S) bogie sides will be used in their place. Some of the underframe gubbins has also come off. I'm not yet sure whether these bits and pieces can be re-used on the MBSO, but in the meantime they're safely tucked away in the spares box. As for the Mk 4 power bogies at either end of the CEP, these will be cut off in the same way. These happily can be reused on the CIG MBSO, as the "phase 1" CIGs (7301-7336) also had Mk 4 power bogies. The conductor shoes will of course be detached and moved to the outer B5(S) trailer bogies on each DTCL......are you keeping up?! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Interesting idea. Whilst the motor will be in the wrong carriage, it will make the task a lot simpler. Will be interested to see how this goes. Good luck! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yes, the phase 2 4-CEPs had Commonwealth bogies on the trailer coaches and the non-motored end of the motor coaches. All the 4-CEPs got Commonwealths (except the motor bogies) when refurbished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 And after a morning's work.... The Mk 4 motor bogie sides (bottom left) will be re-attached to the old CEP TS, which will become the CIG MBSO, once the shoe gear has been removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 ...and finally for today, the Mk 4 power bogie sides have been adhered to the former CEP TS/new CIG MBSO. Some of the CEP's underframe gear has been recycled on the new MBSO, using the Hornby VEP motor coach (note this has contrasting Mk 6 power bogies akin to the "phase 2 CIGs) as a guide for correct positioning. There is plenty more equipment to supplement, which will come from a Southern Pride underframe kit. These power bogies will also need further enhancement. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 In the post this week came the Replica TSO bodies and six corridor connectors. The bodyshells can now be prepped for receiving the MJT etched sides and cab ends, Also here are the paints. After some research into what liveries certain units were wearing in early 1987, i've decided to finish the model in early Network Southeast colours (lighter blue, angled upsweep and double arrows) as unit 1706, as seen here... https://www.flickr.com/photos/66162475@N06/6143836093/ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 The brass sides have arrived! The donor coaches were prepped by filing off all the moulded detail (door handles, hinges, window frames, roof vents and ribs), and then the window pillars were cut out. The coach sides were gently rolled to shape using the coach ends as a reference, and then attached with superglue. So far the MBSO has been completed on both sides, and here it is sat on the ex-CEP chassis 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 One DTC and the MBSO are assembled and primed... The scalloped roof vents are MJT's own, the door hinges are Comet 'T' door handles as used by 5Bel, and the primer is Valspar multi-surface aerosol primer from B&Q. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hi, Looking great so far. I will be following with interest as I plan to do a 4Big to compliment my 4Cig and seeing someones elses methods will be good. I will use Replica coaches as the base again but will probably use their Chassis unit this time. Keep up the good work. Cheers for now, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hi South Central, I've just read through your topic - an interesting idea. Like Ian, the possibility of converting a 4 CEP to a first series 4 BIG had occurred to me. With the inaccuracies of the MJT etched sides/roof vent positions taken as read, it looks like you are making a nice job of the conversion. One insurmountable snag (to me!) which halted my chopping up a CEP was the fact that the B5(S) trailing bogies as fitted to the CIGs and BIGs etc. had 3' dia. wheels and the 4 CEPs' trailing bogies had 3' 6" dia. ones. With the Bachmann model having split axles, its wheels are not that easy to replace and if you want the internal lighting to still function, the original wheels need to be kept. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Made a start on the paintwork, which in the case of this livery is 90% masking and 10% painting! The blue has gone on nicely, as has the bottom grey band, but there is still some touching up to do with a fine brush (such as the blue "bleeding" up the door recesses). The grey upsweeps on the cab sides are next, then the red...which could be the challenging bit! One small blessing in the early NSE livery are the angled upsweeps, as opposed to trying to get the curved upsweeps accurate on the later version. Edited September 2, 2015 by South Central 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 That's looking really good. Good luck with the rest of the stripes. They are very unforgiving! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Very inspiring. Enjoying this with interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Looking really good, can't wait to see the finished item Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) A little bit more progress in the painters'. As warned, the red stripe is proving particularly tricky on the DTC upsweeps, but in the meantime here's the TSO awaiting paint on the roof and ends. Also in the post have come the B5(S)sideframes by MJT. These fit comfortably to the Bachmann ex-CEP bogies and add some useful weight. To give me a break from the masking/painting agro, I've moved focus onto the CIG's future stablemate, a 4BIG. Again, Replica TSOs form the basis, with MJT sides on order. Hopefully things *should* run smoother after practicing on the prototype guinea pig! This will be finished in blue and grey with NSE branding as unit 2202 Edited September 17, 2015 by South Central 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 You've got to be happy with the paint job. Looks great. I've always avoided doing blue/grey because of the white stripe between the two colours. I mixed livery rake would be good for an 8 car set though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 You've got to be happy with the paint job. Looks great. I've always avoided doing blue/grey because of the white stripe between the two colours. I mixed livery rake would be good for an 8 car set though. The two intermediate coaches have painted up nicely, but yes as for those upsweeps....grrr! I'll come back to them with a fresh pair of eyes in a little while. The blue and grey *should* be an easier paint job (tempting fate?). I'll use Fox transfers white lining as opposed to any attempt to paint the lining in which should make the task easier, albeit a bit tedious! It will all be worth it I hope when the two contrasting-livered units are coupled up, they should scream 1987 Central Division! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Some good progress made on the 4BIG, I'm pleased to report! The motor, buffet and one driving coach are painted in blue and grey, white-lined, had transfers added and received one coat of matt varnish. Pictures to come tomorrow hopefully! Then it's on to fitting to the ex-CEP chassis 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 As promised... 2202's 'B' end DTCL for starters, complete with NSE branding on the side, but no cab front 'flashes' on this particular unit. Must replace those air horns...d'oh! A note on white lining - I was just as nervous as many on RMweb who have avoided blue and grey livery over fears of wobbly white lines. Although almost certainly not microscopically perfect, I hope these coaches show that a satisfactory result can be achieved with Fox transfers and plenty of patience by a first-timer...go on, have a go! The most important coach surely?! The shape of things to come! The full formation laid out, including the 'A' end DTCL with its one declassified compartment, still awaiting transfers. Quite a bit of toning down and weathering to do to get 2202 into 1987 condition, I want her to really stand out from her future glossy NSE CIG stablemate when running together. Also to come is all the necessary 'tinwork' (handles, hand rails, etc), and of course mating these bodies up with the ex-CEP chassis. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Nice looking cig. I have one on my need to build list in Blue/grey. All the best Alf Edited October 27, 2015 by crompton 33 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Here's the TB coach undergoing some 'test-fitting' on what was the now-deceased 4CEP's trailer composite chassis. A little bit of 'surgery' to the solebar and buffer-beams at the ends was required but nothing too drastic. This photo reminds me that the steps running boards (edit: jargon memory lapse!) in the middle of each coach need moving to the new door positions. Also fitted are some more of Dart Castings' whitemetal B5(S) trailer bogie sideframes, awaiting a squirt of dirty black paint, followed by a sleeper grime-esque weathering top-coat Edited October 28, 2015 by South Central 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) So, slight change of plan! After playing about all week test-fitting the coach bodies to the CEP chassis, I've decided I can't get a satisfactory fit. The CIG coach bodies come out a whisker too wide of the solebars, and although I'm sure with more skill and perseverance than I have a snug fit could be achieved, I'm throwing in the towel on 'plan A'! Plan B...well the donor coaches are by Replica, so there could never be a better fit than to a Replica chassis! 8 are duly on order to do both the BIG and CIG, complete with Replica bogies. The CEP however is not completely discarded! I shall raid the CEP's motor bogie as I'm determined to use it given it's superb weight and performance, and splice it into a Replica chassis in the 'traditional' way. With Plan B, I can now move the motor bogie to the motor coach itself, and hide more (probably not quite all) of its sheer bulk the guard's van, freeing up the DTCL area for a proper interior. Sadly this means lighting is now off the table, but I could always rectify that one day with TrainTech units or suchlike. As for the now redundant CEP chassis, all is not lost! The stolen motor bogies can be replaced by a kit bogie, and the chassis can be reunited with the CEP coach bodies which have been gathering dust in the spares box. I would like to take the knife to these and make a refurbished CEP as done elsewhere on RMweb, and finish it in "1066 Electrics" branded Jaffa Cake livery to run through Lewes infrequently on diverted Hastings line trains. But that's a little way off yet...! Anyway, résumé over! Will keep everyone posted. Edited October 29, 2015 by South Central 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Hello third rail fans, a few bits and pieces to report... Starting with the 4BIG, and since the CEP chassis idea was shelved (these btw are now happily reunited with the CEP coach bodies, awaiting a trip to "Swindon" for "refurbishment" one day), the Replica chassis and bogie kits have arrived. These have been duly detailed with B5(S) conversion and BIG underframe parts from Southern Pride. The clip-fit between the chassis and the underlying Replica donor coaches was very satisfying after the failed attempts to make the CEP chassis fit snugly. Please excuse the terrible light in these photos, it's been a miserable day in Sussex-by-the-Sea: The completed bogies are primed, the chassis will follow suit as soon as the running boards are fitted, the last of the Trailer Buffet underframe parts have been attached (still unsure about a few bits here)and the interiors (also Southern Pride) are installed. Here is a DTCL and the TB, both at various stages of completion: Edit: just pointing out the slab of white 40 thou mid-coach - this sits atop the Replica carriage weight to level up the floor. The complete coaches are pleasingly ballasted. As for the NSE 4CIG, no progress above the solebar (getting a bit chilly for airbrushing until I can coax the heater into life), however 4 more Replica chassis and 6 trailer bogies have been detailed with the same SP parts as the BIG. The only change of plan with this unit is that I have managed to acquire a pair of Hornby 73's as power units, to be relieved of their motor bogies which are of course Mark 6's. The NSE CIG was initially planned as a Phase 1 unit (1706), however with the Mark 4 power bogies earmarked now surplus to requirements, what was one to do? Answer... Start another 4CIG! Here are two more Replica donor coaches under prep. So far i've neglected the coach inner ends with regard to detailing, but since this is Mark 1 Mark 3 (?!) I thought i'd better raise my game. Here are the appropriate steps/shed socket/jumper boxes/corridor connections/roof overhang on a TSO and MBSO, awaiting MJT brass sides. Happy with these inner ends, I shall retro-fit these parts to the BIG and first CIG. Thanks to Colin Parks and his CIG build topic for help with inner end detailing! Unit number three will become number 1711, and finished in 'Jaffa Cake' livery as seen here at Seaford: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69388036@N08/15329804827 No date to the photo but the combination of NSE red lamp posts with older BR corporate running in boards suggests 1986-87, perfect for the period i'm modelling Lewes in, and conveniently 'copped' on the East Coastway too! 14 units, all phase 1, received these colours but were the first to receive 'toothpaste' stripes, the image-concious NSE evidently singling out these non-standard units. I'm using the evidence above to assume 1711 evaded the paintbrush for a little while at least. I for one think it was the most handsome livery the CIG's wore (fight amongst yourselves!) and am very much looking forward to painting it. Edited November 15, 2015 by South Central 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The last four refurbished CIGs in LSE livery were 1702/8/10 and 1711. The Railway Observer has 1708/10 and 1711 being repainted to NSE around January/February 1987, 1702 was not noted repainted until June 1987. Hope this is of use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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