number6 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Love your work on the units. And look forward to your Lewes layout. I chickened out of doing the station. So great you are doing a CIG in Jaffa. I can well remember the first one of these that rolled into Lewes for my morning commute to college in Hastings in 1986. Straight out of the paintshop and quite toxic inside - both the fumes and the purple striped upholstery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 The last four refurbished CIGs in LSE livery were 1702/8/10 and 1711. The Railway Observer has 1708/10 and 1711 being repainted to NSE around January/February 1987, 1702 was not noted repainted until June 1987. Hope this is of use. 1702 it shall be then! Many thanks Flood 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Love your work on the units. And look forward to your Lewes layout. I chickened out of doing the station. So great you are doing a CIG in Jaffa. I can well remember the first one of these that rolled into Lewes for my morning commute to college in Hastings in 1986. Straight out of the paintshop and quite toxic inside - both the fumes and the purple striped upholstery. Thank you very much! I might have to pick your brains at a later date then for some first hand memories. I'll make sure that delicious purple moquette is faithfully modelled in tribute! As an aside, there is a Lewes topic underway on the layout pages if you're interested, although very sparse atm. There might be a few more platform buildings or the beginnings of the Brighton roads footbridge making an appearance in the new year...emphasis on might! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Thank you very much! I might have to pick your brains at a later date then for some first hand memories. I'll make sure that delicious purple moquette is faithfully modelled in tribute! Happy to. Could probably minutely describe the atmos inside of the buffet on a 4BIG from Brighton that was rostered for my morning train for much of that winter - your stock will be a real nostalgia-fest for me when you are done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Happy to. Could probably minutely describe the atmos inside of the buffet on a 4BIG from Brighton that was rostered for my morning train for much of that winter - your stock will be a real nostalgia-fest for me when you are done.Please do! BIG buffet cars seem to have quite a cult following so I'd like to get as much detail in as possible. Some good interior shots on Flickr of a preserved one at the Dartmoor railway to get started with, including a curvy shelf opposite the galley kitchen which will require a steady hand on the craft knife! Interested that you got a BIG on a Brighton working, was that a specific BIG diagram do you think (positioning move for trains up to Victoria perhaps?) or did they crop up on other local coastway services? Edited November 16, 2015 by South Central 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 The 4BIG was a regular diagram - worked Brighton to Hastings where I assume it ran back for London as an 8 car? The pattern off peak back then was that down Londons were 8 car to Eastbourne where the BIG remained and the CIG or VEP on the back ran on to Ore. The next up London from Ore would couple up and off to London they'd go. So the BIG was always on the country end. I guess that if this unit coupled to another one in Hastings it would be in the right place. If memory serves we arrived in St Leonards Warrior Square about 9. It was staffed but not open - but toast and tea could be had if the attendant was feeling generous [or when we ground to a halt in the snow near Berwick one day]. There is [was?] a BIG buffet car in the bay at Tunbridge Wells West which is a nice trip back in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 The 4BIG was a regular diagram - worked Brighton to Hastings where I assume it ran back for London as an 8 car? The pattern off peak back then was that down Londons were 8 car to Eastbourne where the BIG remained and the CIG or VEP on the back ran on to Ore. The next up London from Ore would couple up and off to London they'd go. So the BIG was always on the country end. I guess that if this unit coupled to another one in Hastings it would be in the right place. If memory serves we arrived in St Leonards Warrior Square about 9. It was staffed but not open - but toast and tea could be had if the attendant was feeling generous [or when we ground to a halt in the snow near Berwick one day]. There is [was?] a BIG buffet car in the bay at Tunbridge Wells West which is a nice trip back in time. That off peak pattern tallies with what i've been told before, i'll dig out my photocopy of the '86-'87 working timetable later to try and spot what time it left Lewes if it arrived at Warrior Sq at 9-ish. A very interesting year for Lewes operationally, which is why i've picked it for modelling - you've got the last year of the loco-hauled London Bridge-Bexhill newspapers, the last year of timetabled DEMU passenger workings to get 3D's and 3H's between St Leonards depot and London for Oxted line duties, a daily Bulleid EPB visit to Eastbourne on a lunchtime parcels from Redhill, Newhaven boat trains and the only year of the InterCity Manchester-Newhaven Marine 47's....now the only excitement we get is an MPV leaf-buster! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Warrior Square. What a place to be around on cold Monday nights during the mid eighties! Ah, happy distant memories.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It was actually a total sh#thole but full of odd/dodgy characters darting around in the shadows! I used to love people watching whilst waiting on the platform for the return train to Eastbourne. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) It was actually a total sh#thole but full of odd/dodgy characters darting around in the shadows! I used to love people watching whilst waiting on the platform for the return train to Eastbourne. We day trip up to Tunbridge Wells sometimes, and it always frustrates me, coming from the Eastbourne direction as we do, how the footbridge takes you out onto the station forecourt instead of straight onto the up platform - particularly nerve-wracking when the Charing X train is already in the platform! East Coastway to Hastings line connections are so tight here and never held, quote a contrast to Lewes and the London/Seaford connections which *usually* run like clockwork (they certainly will when I model them ) Edited November 21, 2015 by South Central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted November 22, 2015 Tempfix Share Posted November 22, 2015 Really enjoying reading this (although it's giving me dangerously inspirational ideas!). Good luck! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2015 My first sight of Warrior Square would have been 50 years ago. In them thar days there were canopies virtually the full length of both platforms. By contrast, today's station seems rather modestly provided. I think the last time I alighted there was about a dozen years ago, and, despite it being a Saturday, I found one of the Network Rail architects, also called Ian, measuring up, with his lady, Geraldine, holding the other end of the tape! I wonder what was being proposed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2015 I used to quite often get in the buffet coach at Victoria or Clapham Junction as the rest of the train would be full so I might aswell stand in the buffet and order a toasted cheese sandwich if there wasnt too much of a queue as I would be getting off at East Croydon. Nice conversions. We could do with a few on Star Lane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 My first sight of Warrior Square would have been 50 years ago. In them thar days there were canopies virtually the full length of both platforms. By contrast, today's station seems rather modestly provided. I think the last time I alighted there was about a dozen years ago, and, despite it being a Saturday, I found one of the Network Rail architects, also called Ian, measuring up, with his lady, Geraldine, holding the other end of the tape! I wonder what was being proposed. In a way, Warrior Square lends itself to a model with tunnel mouth scenic breaks at each end. Albeit not exactly riveting to operate. Perhaps if Bopeep tunnel were shortened (maybe to disguise a corner) and Bopeep junction (plus signal box and substation) and a short length of sharply curving platform at West St Leonards were included, something more interesting could be replicated? Certainly for any avid building scratchbuilders in our midst! All this said, the BIG/CIGs coming together here would be perfect for such a layout set in 1986 at the start of Hastings line electrics...just need some glossy Jaffa CEPs, dilapidated Hastings DEMUs (DC kits?), the odd Marshlink 3H/3D running ECS to West Marina depot, and some very new looking conductor rail. Anyone inspired? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hi All, I know of someone who built a model of Warrior Square in his loft. A big circle of Triang Super 4 track laid directly on to the floor. It was 40 years ago, but I seem to remember he did a good job of it. If you came out of Warrior Square and went over the tunnel mouth at the Hatings end and continued up the hill, there used to be a really good railway shop at a place called Bohemia Junction. One of those shops that was full of second hand stuff. On one visit I remember coming out with a couple of carrier bags of Triang TT track and on another two Triang 37's. Sadly the shop closed many years ago, probably around the time the Hastings line was electrified. Looking forward to seeing more pics of your units. Cheers for now, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Something resembling a 4BIG trailer buffet coming together: I took a raincheck on the snazzy curved shelf opposite the galley kitchen, my craft-knife control wasn't up to it. A kitchen interior was tempting, but rather futile as it would be invisible. I will add a bit more to the counter though, namely a smartly-dressed attendant and some well-stocked shelving behind him. The wafting bacon smell is proving a bit harder to replicate... Elsewhere 2202 has gained its first door handles, and 1702 is ready for priming, save some last few door hinges Cheers for now! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 No wavy shelf If you need an attendant idea? I'm boring myself by mentioning again that there was a cross-dressing buffet car attendant back in the late 80s: very tall and with massive hands and red painted nails. I just happened to be on his/her last down run Vic to Eastbourne and the place had the appearance of a BR corporate flavoured den of iniquity! Bunting, balloons, bowls of nibbles, Good Luck Gerald/Geraldine banners... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 No wavy shelf If you need an attendant idea? I'm boring myself by mentioning again that there was a cross-dressing buffet car attendant back in the late 80s: very tall and with massive hands and red painted nails. I just happened to be on his/her last down run Vic to Eastbourne and the place had the appearance of a BR corporate flavoured den of iniquity! Bunting, balloons, bowls of nibbles, Good Luck Gerald/Geraldine banners... Sorry to disappoint! I might take the round file to it later and see what I can sculpt And crikey, what a character (s)he sounds! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I remember him/her was living in the same road as me at the time. The partner worked was a school dinner lady. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So I didn't imagine it after too many McEwans? Details now a bit hazy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So I didn't imagine it after too many McEwans? Details now a bit hazy. Do you remember that deep voice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Couple of quick requests for info from the southern electric scholars of RMweb if you don't mind? Firstly some numbers, if someone could confirm the individual coach numbers making up CIG 1702 and BIG 2202 in 1987 that would put my mind at rest! I understand there was occasional remarshalling during the refurbishment programme so a definitive answer from someone with the appropriate literature would be great. Second of all, 1702 is of course a 'phase 1' or 'Brighton' unit, so any info on detail differences from the 'phase 2'/'Pompey' units I've built already would be good to know. I've got the Mk 4 motor bogies sorted from the 4CEP, and I'll probably have a go at adding those 'wings' to the Southern Pride seats. But it's underframe gear positions I'm unsure of - I notice the air tanks under the DTCL's are in a different place for starters. Was also wondering if there was any extra kit underneath for the electric parking brake unique to the 'phase 1' batch. Over to you folks, any info appreciated. In return, since 1702 is now fully 'jaffa'd, varnished and partly transferred-up, there should be some photos by the weekend 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) My 1986 Ian Allan has coach listings for 17xx 4-CIGs only from 1701-1711, with 1712-35 still to be done. 1702 (ex-7326) = DTC 76047, TS 70720, MBS 62042, DTC 76101. For 22xx 4-BIGs, it has all of 2201-2210 (ex-7049-58 in order). 2202 (ex-7050) = DTC 76562, MBS 62278, TRBS 69331, DTC 76572. I'd bet on the same formations in 1987, since they hadn't long been refurbished, but I don't have a book for that date. Those two formations do in fact correspond with the old/original formations from the 1978 RCTS book, when they were 7xxx units. Edited December 8, 2015 by eastwestdivide 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 1702 looking (and smelling) like she's just rolled out of the paint shop: Once again paints are mostly Phoenix Precision. As liveries go, this has to be one of the most pleasant to paint and mask up - primer on first, then Executive grey (er, beige, BR?!), then mask up for the brown and finally the orange stripe. The fiddly bit was picking out the sliding ventilators in Humbrol metallic aluminium, but I like the subtle result and the metallic shine seems to have survived the matt varnishing which is a plus. Still some weathering to do on the roofs, inner ends and cab fronts but pictures seem to show the Jaffa CIGs were kept pretty clean on the sides at least...preferential treatment?! Transfers, from Fox, were a relative joy after white-lining that B/G BIG, the only thing of note being the double arrows which are in fact of a 2mm scale sheet. Thanks eastwestdivide for those numbers! When a package from Southern Pride arrives, I can get the Replica underframes and trailer bogies suitably embellished (still appealing for any help for underframe equipment positions on these 'Phase 1' units) and get an interior knocked up. As mentioned earlier I fully intent to add those 'Phase 1' winged headrests which I and I dare say many others miss greatly, and of course painted in that purple moquette that number6 so fondly remembers! Cheers! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Superb! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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