Wharfeside, a lifetime's project

[Paul Cram]

Why not take the failed motor apart to see what the clearance is in it?

[durham light infantry]

Just been examining one of my DJH Black fives after it failed a few weeks ago. Built in the nineties and fitted with a Portescap motor/gearbox. It was hauling a lightish train of 8 Stanier coaches when the controller tripped out. Gave it a slight push and it ran a few more feet slowly then tripped again. Checked the controller on other section switches and it ran other trains okay so it was the loco. On the bench the motor wouldn't run with leads to the wheels and the old controller tripped out so a short was suspected. disconnected the tender pickups, still a short, disconnected the motor leads, no short, checked motor, the Faulhaber coreless motor has a short.... Great. The loco has Ultrascale wheels, hornblocks etc so I don't really want to strip it completely, managed to get to the motor screws and removed the motor, still shorting.

Last year I picked up a couple of 24mm coreless motors on Ebay, copies of the Escap/Faulhaber motor even the end boss fits the portescap mount perfectly but, --- no screw holes so hear is the question. Anyone had a similar coreless motor apart and is there room to drill and tap the end for remounting on the gearbox, not worried about what thread it is as I'll be doing it to a BA thread.

The other option is of course to fit one of my stash of Mashima 1630s like what are fitted in most of the other big locos.... but it means stripping the chassis down to remove the gearbox and fitting a new Highlevel box.

Decisions, decisions....

 

Dave.

Difficult one Dave. But I would have no hesitation replacing the gearbox from a 1980's dialysis machine, with the best motor and gearbox combination available. You have high standards, don't compromise them.

 

Mike

[Mrkirtley800]

I would go for it Dave. My experience of Portescaps is not a happy one. I fitted three locos with the large motor and one with the small version. The three with the large type developed a high pitched wine which I found extremely annoying. The performance was no better than the Mashima motors, so out came the Portescaps and on to e-bay. My engines now have Mashima motors with a variety of gearboxes and run well. The only one that I am unhappy with is a home made tender drivewith a Mashima 12/24 and a double reduction, which sounds a bit like a coffee grinder on steroids. I have spent hours trying to quieten it without any joy, but watch this space.

Derek

[davefrk]

Why not take the failed motor apart to see what the clearance is in it?

Hi Paul, the Faulhaber motor that's failed is a bit different from the escap motor so it may not tell me much but I'm going to have a go with the clone Escap type as I have two if I buxxer one up...

 

Dave.

[davefrk]

I would go for it Dave. My experience of Portescaps is not a happy one. I fitted three locos with the large motor and one with the small version. The three with the large type developed a high pitched wine which I found extremely annoying. The performance was no better than the Mashima motors, so out came the Portescaps and on to e-bay. My engines now have Mashima motors with a variety of gearboxes and run well. The only one that I am unhappy with is a home made tender drivewith a Mashima 12/24 and a double reduction, which sounds a bit like a coffee grinder on steroids. I have spent hours trying to quieten it without any joy, but watch this space.

Derek

 

 Hi Mike and Derek, yes, Portescaps were good in their day but as you say Mashima motors are every bit as good and are even better at crawling round for hours with a heavy train as on Wharfeside. I've used Mashima motors since the 80s and have replaced a few Portescaps in my own locos. The Black Five mentioned was built for a customer who used Portescaps and who later changed scales, he sold three of my builds to a friend of mine who died recently, I managed to buy the three locos from his estate as they were ideal for Wharfeside.

The LMS Crab seen in one of the clips on the Wharfeside thread holds the speed trap record on Retford by registering 0 mph but still perceptively moving a 60 wagon train... Mashima 1630 with 50:1 gears, perfect.

 

Dave.

[davefrk]

Just signed up for Youtube so be gentle with me, learning new camera phone too.

Here are a few clips of Wharfeside from my own hand.

 

Lighting a bit intense with the LED floods at full power, may try next time with 50%

 

Both show a DJH Black 5 on a scratchbuilt chassis

 

The Black 5 can crawl around all day with a heavy train due to it's Mashima 1630 can motor and 50:1 gearing.

 

Bachmann 4F on 60 coal empties, they will normally run as two 30 wagon trains.

 

Coal empties being thrashed through the pointwork on Wharfeside on a previous occasion, just to prove it works.

All on Gibson wheelsets, these have been set to 16.65 BtoB for EM gauge and the clearances on the check rails

tightened up a little to suit, most visitors on Romfords can still run through okay but the odd older wheel sometimes jumps.

 

As far as the videos are concerned there're not too bad but I've noticed a slight 'click' every 1 second so I'll be experimenting some more, would it be better to transfer video direct from phone to Youtube rather than to the computer first as I feel they have lost some sharpness.

 

All this modern tech has me befuddled.

 

Dave.

[Worsdell forever]

 

 

As far as the videos are concerned there're not too bad but I've noticed a slight 'click' every 1 second so I'll be experimenting some more, would it be better to transfer video direct from phone to Youtube rather than to the computer first as I feel they have lost some sharpness.

 

All this modern tech has me befuddled.

 

Dave.

 

Thought that was your knees...

 

 

Layout looking good by the way.

[Lecorbusier]

Absolutely in awe of the empties being thrashed backwards through the pointwork ..... that suggests some pretty fine trackwork not to mention the rolling stock.

 

Nice to see some videos.

[Mrkirtley800]

Thought that was your knees...

 

 

Layout looking good by the way.

Mocketh not Paul, it comes to all of us.

The layout is certainly looking very good. I like it.

Derek

[davefrk]

Thought that was your knees...

 

 

Layout looking good by the way.

 

Thanks for that Paul, actually it's most of me joints that are aching due to some new meds I'm trying out, only another 14 days to suffer.

 

Dave.

[davefrk]

Thank you for the comments gentlemen, the thrashing of the mineral wagons has become a 'party piece' for visitors and is often called for again and again just to see that it's not a fluke, 1 in 10 times a particular wagon misbehaves and I'm still working on it, wheels okay, wagon not twisted, weight same as others (40grams approx) buffer faces smooth but still it sometimes hits the dirt.

It took a long time to get the wagons right and even longer for the track. But hey it's the way I like to do things, crazy isn't it.

 

Dave.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Looking good.

I like the subliminal EMGS advertising!

 

Mike.

[iak]

Wonderful stuff David.

I do like the sense of mass on the move those rakes have.

[davefrk]

Coal empties being thrashed through the pointwork on Wharfeside on a previous occasion, just to prove it works.

All on Gibson wheelsets, these have been set to 16.65 BtoB for EM gauge and the clearances on the check rails

tightened up a little to suit, most visitors on Romfords can still run through okay but the odd older wheel sometimes jumps.

 

 

Someone has emailed regarding my comments on the Back to Back I use. I found early on that wheels like Gibson, Ultrascale, Kean Maygib had a much finer flange than Romford/Markits and whilst the latter works well at 16.5 BtoB on track to EM spec, the finer wheels worked better at 16.65 BtoB. I happened to mention it to people and a few had already gone down that road themselves. Recently there has been some discussion in the EMGS regarding this and I think it was decided not to change the spec but if individuals want to do what works for them then okay. One downside is that some loco driving wheels need a longer axle so that the axle end comes flush with the wheelboss. If you ask nicely some manufacturers will supply a longer axle for you to shorten in a mini drill but I suppose I'm fortunate that I have a lathe so I can cut and finish my own axles. I know - smart axxe.

 

Dave.

[davefrk]

Here is another try at youtube videos.

 

Bachmann Ivatt Class 2 on the local for Ilkley.

 

 Bachmann Jubilee on a few coaches.

Carnforth have supplied a Stanier mogul for the Leeds parcels.

 

One of my favourites although it does show up the wobbly Sharman wheels on the Britannia...

 

I'll keep trying to improve the quality but there is still the slight click every second, any ideas?

 

Dave.

Edited May 31, 2019 by davefrk

[AJCT]

.........

Black 5 on express goods and Britannia 'Moray Firth' on the Thames Clyde.

........

 

 

What's the origin/diagram of the (ex-LMS?) restaurant car in the "Thames-Clyde" formation in this clip ?

 

Alasdair

[davefrk]

Hi Alisdair, yes we've  had similar conversations before, the restaurant car isn't mine but is on semi permanant loan from another member. As far as I know it is a Dapol carcuss with Comet sides, it matches in quite well at least in the flesh if not under photo lights.

 

See you tomorrow,

 

Dave Franks.

Edited May 7, 2022 by davefrk

[davefrk]

Some more videos I'm afraid, tell me when you get sick of them.

 

Kit built Clan Mackintosh hauling the Waverley set, standing in for the usual Jubilee or Scot.

 

Clan Mackintosh again, running at line speed of 60mph being passed by Ivatt diesel 10000 standing in for a failed Black Five. Head code showing ' express freight'.

 

Still a lot to do on the stock with weathering coaches and numbering vans ongoing.

 

Right, here's one for those people who say Bachmann steam locos can't haul much, Jubilee hauling 19 Mark 1s. The loco has been converted to EM with Gibson wheels and the motor changed to a Mashima can motor but this in itself won't help the haulage, what does help is checking the stock runs as free as possible with in the case of these coaches adding brass axle bearings to the bogies that makes the difference. The record for this Jubilee is 26 coaches, this was just a grab shot before packing up hence the poor lighting.

And yes I know the valvegear is missing, the left side is on but I ran out of rivets which have now arrived.

 

Dave.

Edited June 29, 2018 by davefrk

[Penrhos1920]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv4Scwut_pQ

Right, here's one for those people who say Bachmann steam locos can't haul much, Jubilee hauling 19 Mark 1s. The loco has been converted to EM with Gibson wheels and the motor changed to a Mashima can motor but this in itself won't help the haulage, what does help is checking the stock runs as free as possible with in the case of these coaches adding brass axle bearings to the bogies that makes the difference. The record for this Jubilee is 26 coaches, this was just a grab shot before packing up hence the poor lighting.

And yes I know the valvegear is missing, the left side is on but I ran out of rivets which have now arrived.

 

Dave.

Are those Bachmann bogies just with brass bearings or replacement bogies? If just bearings, how did you fit them?

[gismorail]

Keep the video's coming wonderful to watch and enjoy and some excellent modelling 

[mightbe]

Just keep churning those clips out, we'll let you know when we're ready for you to stop

 

Out of curiosity, what's the half-lifted bit of track meant to represent? The one visible in the default still from the last clip.

[davefrk]

Are those Bachmann bogies just with brass bearings or replacement bogies? If just bearings, how did you fit them?

 

Hi Penrhos, they are the original plastic bogies which have been drilled out to take pinpoint bearings for the very sharp Gibson EM wheelsets, on some Bachmann coaches the plastic hole the axles run in had worn to the point the flanges were starting to rub on the coach floor!!!  The tool I used was a preproduction version which I was sent to evaluate and comment on, it had a square body and as such wouldn't fit in these Bachmann bogies so I suggested making it slightly smaller or maybe a hex shape so to clear the bogie frame. (I eventually turned the corners down to clear the bogie frames). The tool has a very short 2mm drill in one end and a point at the other so it can clip into the bogie and stay in alignment, the length is adjusted as the drill goes in so the hole is opened out to the right depth. I'll find out about availability as they were out of stock for a while. Can't remember who was retailing them at the moment.

 

Dave.

[davefrk]

Keep the video's coming wonderful to watch and enjoy and some excellent modelling 

 

 

Just keep churning those clips out, we'll let you know when we're ready for you to stop

 

Out of curiosity, what's the half-lifted bit of track meant to represent? The one visible in the default still from the last clip.

 

Thanks people, I'm trying various settings to improve the quality of the picture, the LED photo lights have had the coloured filters swapped for a diffuser so the colour is better

The redundant track is common in the area as there were sanitorium, brickworks and quarries in the area which stopped using rail after 1945 and the connections taken out. On Wharfeside this represents a line down the hill to a hydropathic establishment which is a bit of a copy of one on the line and this even had an electric steeplecab loco running under  wires.

 

Dave.

[davefrk]

Still on the topic of haulage or at least the capacity to haul, a bit of fun was had last night at the club with the Bachmann Jubilee again.

 

 

This time it was a record thirty coaches, 19 with brass axle bearings the rest with tuned axle holes and plastic compatable grease.

The Jubilee started the train no problem and only slipped slightly pulling the train round the 6ft curves at the layout ends.

The record will stand for now as I don't want to do any damage to the loco after it's detailing is finished.

 

That's an end to the silliness.

 

Wharfeside was getting some more scenic formwork done last night too and once the overbridge has had it's final weathering and is fixed in place I'll be able to blend in the top surface and add the grass.

 

Dave.

Edited March 23, 2023 by davefrk

[Tortuga]

Apologies for the rash of ratings. I’ve read through this topic a couple of times and the photos of the track work just blows me away - not that everything else isn’t as equally impressive!