Hawk Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I´m certain this has been discussed before, but here goes anyway. Carrs sells a 138 deg. lead free solder cream, I do not know the exact alloy, but i would guess that it is Sn42Bi58. Is anybody using this solder cream? Is it a good substitute for lead solders? I think I have heard that this is a rather brittle alloy, I am quite happy with my lead/thin solder cream (ZInk Chloride added as flux), but I am concerened about the health and environment issues. I am especially worried about the dust forming when sanding ot using the scratch brush on solder joints. Regarding health & soldering, has anybody heard of modellers that have gotten lead poisoning? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2015 Leaded solder is fine, the smoke is flux and can be quite nasty to your sinuses. Just have good air flow and don't eat the solder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Carrs sells a 138 deg. lead free solder cream, I do not know the exact alloy, but i would guess that it is Sn42Bi58. Is anybody using this solder cream? Is it a good substitute for lead solders? I think I have heard that this is a rather brittle alloy, Yes, I use it - but tend to prefer the 178 and 221 solder creams. I get through about 1 tube a month combined with the 178 being first choice and probably half of that used. However, lets be clear what we are talking about. I use an RSU for much of the soldering (certainly for most detail work) Where I do not use cream is for serious structural work. I continue to use 145 fully leaded solder wire for constructional work with a standard soldering iron or a gas torch iron. Creams are not designed to use in big quantities you are supposed to use very little. So cleaning up should not be an issue. If you are having to scrape any excess solder off your work you are using far too much in the first place. Excess solder, any type, gives a very weak joint. Most people use far too much solder using it more like a filler or glue. (white metal aside, soldering is a molecular level join) As for being poisoned - well I'm showing no recognisable signs after daily exposure for many years. But work in a well ventilated area, don't smoke or eat, and just like the kits you build, wash hands thoroughly after each session. Just sensible precautions really. Solder creams are more expensive but they are indispensable for RSU users. Far better than solder paint - which IMO has only one use - tinning (irons,sheet metal) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2015 Bench top fume extractors are cheap - mine came from Maplin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Solder creams are more expensive but they are indispensable for RSU users. Far better than solder paint - which IMO has only one use - tinning (irons,sheet metal) Forgive my ignorance, but what is the differnce between solder cream and solder paint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Forgive my ignorance, but what is the differnce between solder cream and solder paint?For one - price. Seriously paint is a suspension of solder in a liquid flux. it comes in a bottle similar to flux (from Carrs anyway) and is applied to metal with a paint brush (small) to cover the part, or to solder iron tips by dipping. You then apply heat and the solder forms a thin or thick if you are too liberal with it on the part. Solder cream comes in a syringe and is also a suspension (but as the name suggests is a cream not a flowing liquid) You need quite a bit of force to push a small amount from the syringe and it is applied in small dots or a very small amount on one of the surfaces to be soldered. Using solder paint on laminations is possible but very messy and can even blow parts apart. The large amount of flux in the paint when confined between parts boils rapidly forcing parts apart. As solder cream has much less flux and is used in smaller amounts reduses this boiling to a minimum. The cream is so difficult to get out of the syringe that it naturally limits the amount you use. This is the "no clean" aspect that can be claimed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lyonesse Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Re health & safety. Some of the 145 deg solders contain cadmium, which is not nice stuff. In normal soldering, the risk is in the fumes from the flux. But then we modellers often file off excess solder, creating dust which can be tracked about the house. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Re health & safety. Some of the 145 deg solders contain cadmium, which is not nice stuff. In normal soldering, the risk is in the fumes from the flux. But then we modellers often file off excess solder, creating dust which can be tracked about the house. I try to establish good practices in the workshop, but sometimes I skip them to get things going.... Here is the ideal I try to follow: -Always use a shop apron. -Have a dedicated set of workshop slippers (like the japanese have toilet slippers!) -Vacuum the workshop every week with a water-filter vacuum cleaner -Never eat or drink in the workshop -Always wash hands immidiately after soldering sessions. -Use a desktop fume extractor. -Use a plastic drawer to collect dust and filings from sanding and filing solder joints. -Keep the workbench tidy, use dedicated tools for mixing the solder paint. -Dispose towels used for wiping up solder cream and solder paint in the special waste container. Have I forgotten something? Or am I totally paranoid about this stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 How is the 138 and 221 working for you? I have tried the 179, but I went back to using my solder paint. I feel it flows better and leaves less excess solder. The solder paint I use is meant for tinning automobile chassis parts, it is a lead/tin mixture with Zink Chloride as he flux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 How is the 138 and 221 working for you? As I indicated above I probably get through roughly 1 tube of each every 3-4 months with the 178 lasting no more than 8 weeks (very approximately) - It does depend on lots of variables not least of which is what I am building, scale etc., and to a large extent on work which tends to take me out of country for long extended periods. I also like the occasional break for a holiday. Thinking about it the 212 is generally the choice for small detail especially if it is likely to fall foul of other parts being added nearby. None of them see to take kindly to being reheated and I would probably completely clean a part up and start again if something did slip/get dislodged whereas with normal solder a small amount of flux and reheating will do the trick. That may be as much to do with the tiny amount used as with any properties of the cream. I do have a preference for Carrs products - not because I don't like other products, just that I don't see the need to try them out when I can rely on something that does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lyonesse Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I try to establish good practices in the workshop, but sometimes I skip them to get things going.... Here is the ideal I try to follow: -Always use a shop apron. -Have a dedicated set of workshop slippers (like the japanese have toilet slippers!) -Vacuum the workshop every week with a water-filter vacuum cleaner -Never eat or drink in the workshop -Always wash hands immidiately after soldering sessions. -Use a desktop fume extractor. -Use a plastic drawer to collect dust and filings from sanding and filing solder joints. -Keep the workbench tidy, use dedicated tools for mixing the solder paint. -Dispose towels used for wiping up solder cream and solder paint in the special waste container. Have I forgotten something? Or am I totally paranoid about this stuff? I don't think you're paranoid. Heavy metals are cumulative poisons and that dark grey dust from using a glass fibre brush to clean up your model is not something you want to expose yourself or your family to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 I don't think you're paranoid. Heavy metals are cumulative poisons and that dark grey dust from using a glass fibre brush to clean up your model is not something you want to expose yourself or your family to. Due to a slightly low blood count my doctor wanted to do some tests, and as I read that this could be due to lead poisoning I suggested that they tested my lead and cadmium levels. All my tests came back negative, so it seems that my precautions are sufficient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 You probably intake more lead from drinking the water that comes through your lead soldered water pipes, lead pipes ect, than from model making. I know lead is not good, no lead is even better. The other elements in solder tend to worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I use 179 cream for most of my soldering needs. I generally find it works well, though it doesn't always seem to be consistent - sometimes it seems to have a massive excess of flux come out and it leaves sticky residue because it doesn't get burned off and sometimes there doesn't seem to be enough leading to some unsightly messes. It is very convenient and easy to use though. I have though tabout the 138 for whitemetal but when asking about it I got replies about many other products and methods but not anything from anyone who'd used the product in question, so I still haven't tried it (it's bleeding expensive after all!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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