Where did the GWR and LMS cross paths at?

[melmerby]

'End-on' maybe but there was no through running at either. The links were for the interchange of wagons and allowed the Midland and LNWR (LMS latterly) access to the docks.

How did the MR get from it's tracks at St Thomas to it's Goods yard situated on the GWR line?

Were all the wagons "exchanged" by being carried forward to the yard by GWR locos and handed back to the MR when the yard was reached?

Bit pointless if you ask me!

 

Keith

[Northroader]

The LMS and GWR had a shared main line in Shropshire between Shrewsbury and Wellington, where you could see trains of either outfit, although LMS was more secondary, but still used for running in turns for the largest pAcifics fresh off repair in Crewe works, with three coaches Shrewsbury to Stafford. fRom Shrewsbury south to Hereford was also joint, and here you could see Jubilees on GWR sets and Castles on LMS trains, both North to West expresses, Manchester to West of England through the sEvern Tunnel, running through very pleasant hill country. West from Shrewsbury to Welshpool the line was also joint, although LMS wasn't that common, and the same applies to the Minsterley branch off that line, also joint. Maybe the stokesay model project (Shrewsbury - Hereford section) could be what you need?

[The Stationmaster]

How did the MR get from it's tracks at St Thomas to it's Goods yard situated on the GWR line?

Were all the wagons "exchanged" by being carried forward to the yard by GWR locos and handed back to the MR when the yard was reached?

Bit pointless if you ask me!

 

Keith

It had Running Powers for that, but only that.  Neither of the LMS constituents (or the Grouped company) had Running Powers to the coal tip sidings they owned on King's Dock and Prince of Wales Dock nor - according to the RCH lists - any Working Arrangement to access them.

[artfull dodger]

Thanks for all the replies,  So far I have 3 LMS engines, a Bassett Lowke 4-4-0 Duke of York in clockwork, a Bassett Lowke LMS Stainer Mogul in live steam and I just bought a Hornby LMS 4-4-0 Compound in clockwork.  Once I restock my funds I am considering one of the Lionel Albert Hall GWR sets as its the most affordable way to add some track and a whole train to the layout here in the states.  So I wanted to see if I could justify having a GWR Hall class with 3 coaches on the layout amid a sea of LMS Crimson Red engines.   Mike

[melmerby]

It had Running Powers for that, but only that.  Neither of the LMS constituents (or the Grouped company) had Running Powers to the coal tip sidings they owned on King's Dock and Prince of Wales Dock nor - according to the RCH lists - any Working Arrangement to access them.

OK

 

What about when the trains left the respective stations and ran out of company metals after a few miles?

Both the Midland and LNWR around Swansea were cut off from their heartlands by some considerable distance.

The Midland had running powers over the N&B and Cambrian, the LNWR had running powers over the GWR

 

Keith

[bike2steam]

 Oxford (the only place where all the 'Big 4' could be seen).

Ray. 

Nope - not quite, you forgot Kensington Olympia, and Old Oak West Junction.

(My god - it's nearly 50 years since my favourite loco shed closed !!!)

[melmerby]

Worcester Shrub Hill was a joint GWR/MR station and the MR had running powers N and S as well as their own goods facilities.

 

Keith

[runs as required]

Thanks for all the replies,  So far I have 3 LMS engines, a Bassett Lowke 4-4-0 Duke of York in clockwork, a Bassett Lowke LMS Stainer Mogul in live steam and I just bought a Hornby LMS 4-4-0 Compound in clockwork.  Once I restock my funds I am considering one of the Lionel Albert Hall GWR sets as its the most affordable way to add some track and a whole train to the layout here in the states.  So I wanted to see if I could justify having a GWR Hall class with 3 coaches on the layout amid a sea of LMS Crimson Red engines.   Mike

What a wonderful collection of 0 gauge locos.

I'd say proportion of red to green would best represent Chester General in the 1930s with the GW in the SW bay platform.

dhig

[melmerby]

Thanks for all the replies,  So far I have 3 LMS engines, a Bassett Lowke 4-4-0 Duke of York in clockwork, a Bassett Lowke LMS Stainer Mogul in live steam and I just bought a Hornby LMS 4-4-0 Compound in clockwork.  Once I restock my funds I am considering one of the Lionel Albert Hall GWR sets as its the most affordable way to add some track and a whole train to the layout here in the states.  So I wanted to see if I could justify having a GWR Hall class with 3 coaches on the layout amid a sea of LMS Crimson Red engines.   Mike

Isn't the "Duke of York" a work of fiction? If so you can do anything you like!

 

Keith

[The Stationmaster]

OK

 

What about when the trains left the respective stations and ran out of company metals after a few miles?

Both the Midland and LNWR around Swansea were cut off from their heartlands by some considerable distance.

The Midland had running powers over the N&B and Cambrian, the LNWR had running powers over the GWR

 

Keith

The Midland only reached Swansea by virtue of Running Powers, including some over the GWR, as its owned or Joint stretches of railway enroute were all isolated.  The LNWR reached Swansea over its own or Joint Lines with one stretch in South Wales where it hd Running Powers over the GWR down to Pontardulais (which appears to have been a reciprocal arrangement as the GWR had Running Powers over the LNWR from Pontardulais to Swansea).   The Running Powers situation in South Wales and the Borders was fairly complex with numerous reciprocal arrangements and all sorts of weird hangovers from 'blocking moves' when new routes were being promoted - for example the LNWR also had Running Powers over the GWR from Hereford to Swansea via Pontypool Road and the Vale of Neath route (never exercised it would seem).

[JohnR]

This is presumably also being discussed on the "When an immoveable object meets an irresistible force" thread...

[Northroader]

Yes, I'd agree with mr. running as and when, with the fleet you've got, the west end of Chester makes perfect sense. there was also nearby and in view LNER trains running into their Chester station (clc) and the the Hall could be bringing in a block SR set on a Birkenhead- Bournemouth job.

[Marshall5]

The most interesting thing about Blaenau Festiniog was that the LNWR had Running Poewers over the Festiniog Railway between Blaenau Festiniog and Duffws.  They might possibly have been used in earlier times for slate wagons (I vaguely remember a photo caption from long ago with some sort of hint of that) but presumably it never involved locos working anything. By 1928 the Powers were shown as 'Not Exercised'.

That's interesting. I think you're probably right that it was for the LNWR owned slate wagons.  They were loaded at the Oakley and Llechwedd wharves (just outside the tunnel) on to  s.g. transporter wagons for transhipping at Deganwy but also in the LNWR goods yard in Blaenau in which case they are likely to have come the quarries beyond Duffws.

Ray.