N Gauge Mk 3 Sleepers

[John M Upton]

Hello

 

I have a couple of Graham Farish Mk 3 sleepers on my desk and quite frankly they are rubbish, especially as all my other Mk 3 stock is the more modern Dapol model.  Now did I imagine it or did Dapol announce back in the long forgotten past that they would do new Sleeper coaches at some point?

 

If not, what options do I have for bringing the old Farish junk into the 21st century?  A transplanted chassis from some of those cheap ten quid Dapol Mk 3's was my thought as to a starting point.

 

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi John,

 

You are not alone with your thoughts on the BachFar MK3 Sleepers....

 

I've already had a look at transplanting the chassis from the Dapol Mk3 onto the Farish shell.

 

Due to the coach design it isn't an easy thing to do - so difficult that I gave up.

 

I've resigned myself to waiting until Bachmann do something with the Mk3 which is an actual improvement.

 

So far - the only improvement has been in the paint finish.

 

Thanks

[woodenhead]

Maybe have a chat with the guys from Revolution, it probably needs their kind of approach to get Dapol to do them as a commission.

[Rusty.J]

I dislike the Graham Farish Mk3s also. Quite frankly I think they are rubbish also. As Woodenhead also said, it may be worth asking the folks at Revolution to look into the matter and see if they can commission it from Dapol. If that is not successful then I would personally look at getting etches made with the correct window arrangement. If that isn't an option then the last resort would be getting some 3D printed bodysides.

[Revolution Mike]

I'm going to be a dissenter here! I don't mind the Farish Mk3 - it is what it is ie a model of its age (as an aside it offends me less than the Dapol Mk3 with its dodgy roof profile/ends, poor glazing/window shape and mis-matched details).  I actually think for a reasonably flush-sided coach in 2mm that printed sides are not so bad.

 

But if people are insistent on using the Dapol Mk3 then I would see if the Hurst etches will fit on a Dapol coach: http://www.shop.hurstmodels.com/nc3005-sleepers--sle-and-slep--2-vehicles-323-p.asp

 

Cheers, Mike

 

PS I thought that Dapol had previously said that they would definitely not be doing Mk3 sleepers as the tooling changes would be too great.

Edited October 6, 2015 by red death

[John M Upton]

I have been thinking more about the Mk3 sleepers and am wondering if I could do a cut and shut with plasticard infills of a Dapol Mk 3 and forget the Farish version altogether.  This is a development from my first idea this morning which was to graft the between doors part of the Farish bodysides into the Dapol body.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Mike is correct - Dapol did say they would not be doing the sleepers at all.

 

When I said we would have to wait for developments - it is from Bachmann that we have to wait.

 

Hopefully the fact that Dapol have done the Mk3 coaches will not stop them doing a full new model to replace the older Farish offerings in the range.

 

As for current options...

 

I was also wondering if it was possible to fill in windows then cut the appropriate windows into place to do a sleeper.

 

Thanks

 

ps - yes - I have several Farish Sleepers buried in a box.

[Robert Shrives]

Hi ,

Hopefully the Mk3 sleeper will make a showing as it allows the management train to be completed, I think the FGW sleeper train in its MK3 variation would be reasonable stab - albeit using a TGS to act as the brake. The holy grail of the Scottish services falls on the RFO , BUO coaches being Mk2s and thus logically from the Farish stable -would cross manufacture cooperation work ? Who knows but it might lead to a Dapol Mk2 ...just a thought.

 

The Hurst idea is a good one as might a variation on Pete Harveys frames for the NMT conversion kit, a long time ago I did ask Brian Hanson at Shawplan if a reduction of his MK3 frames was possible - yes but N market share meant it was below radar - nearly on the floor..

 

I guess a budding 3D printer could plagurise a Dapol Mk3 shell and then a case of buying a NQP Mk3 and swapping bits about

 

regards

Robert     

[grahame]

I don't think it's so much whether the old Farish or the newer Dapol version is best, most detailed or has the most accurate profile (I'm not so sure either is spot on), but that they are different and those differences become so much more apparent when run together.

 

G.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Robert,

 

Last comment from Bachmann re:-

 

RFO , BUO coaches being Mk2s and thus logically from the Farish stable

 

"Cannot see that it is likely that there would be continued interest in these"

 

This was after the announcement that the new franchisee would have to provide all new stock as part of the operations contract.

 

In relation to this - I don't see any great rush by the new franchisee to change the livery on many more of the existing stock.

 

Thanks

[Scottish Modeller]

I don't think it's so much whether the old Farish or the newer Dapol version is best, most detailed or has the most accurate profile (I'm not so sure either is spot on), but that they are different and those differences become so much more apparent when run together.

 

G.

Hi Grahame,

 

Yes - I agree with that statement.

 

You can certainly tell the difference once they are together - even after respraying to match the livery.

 

Thanks

[m0rris]

I guess a budding 3D printer could plagurise a Dapol Mk3 shell and then a case of buying a NQP Mk3 and swapping bits about

 

At a guess, that is going to be the most likely option. I'd be up for a sizeable number of Mk3s to make up an 8 coach Caly sleeper rake but alas it is one thing to make a complete kit and another to make parts that fit snugly to an existing model.

[Rammstein2609]

Hi guys

 

This is something I've been looking at for a few years now but it has taken a back seat while other projects are completed.

 

I started out with etched sides for the Farish coach but didn't like it much due to lack of relief on the doors.  I next turned my attention to the Dapol model with the idea of 3D printing window inlays to create the SLE and SLEP.  I planned on creating masters for each and having them cast in resin.  This would create a flat side so an etch would be produced for the window frames and underframe boxes.

 

This is as far as I got:

 

 

This was a simple test print which I added onto another order from Shapeways.  I think with a little work these could create a decent conversion.  It's something I will revisit soon if there is demand for it.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Robert Shrives]

Hi , The Insert is an inspired idea, would it be possible to add a ledge behind so when cut out is fitted you would have a gluing ledge and reinforcement to allow a little sanding back if required. FXD would probably allow for the frames to be worth it or perhaps an etch?

 

Certainly 2 SLE and 2 SLEP would float my boat

 

Thanks

Robert   

[Rammstein2609]

Hi , The Insert is an inspired idea, would it be possible to add a ledge behind so when cut out is fitted you would have a gluing ledge and reinforcement to allow a little sanding back if required. FXD would probably allow for the frames to be worth it or perhaps an etch?  

 

 

The ledge idea is something else I was considering to make it easier to align the body sides.  I started the design for these sides before FXD was announced so I'll definitely look into printing the frames on the insert to makes things a whole lot easier.  Glazing shouldn't be too much of an issue either as several suppliers can laser cut acrylic to suit.

 

I only need two MK3 sleepers but managed to pick up some cheap Dapol coaches so thought I may as well do a full train worth of them.  The project stalled though as I'm still waiting on the new Farish air con MK2's which still seem to be at the drawing stage.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Robert Shrives]

I Guess if you can design a 3D Mk3 side then how about doing a 3D BUO as a whole side then cut out the whole side of a MK2. I too was waiting on the Farish RFO - I have a BUO etch glued on to a farish shell waiting in the "to do box."  

 

I did wonder if doing a frames etch wether a cuting/ marking guide as a simple fold up was posible.

lazer cut glazing a good idea too.

 

robert

[Scottish Modeller]

I Guess if you can design a 3D Mk3 side then how about doing a 3D BUO as a whole side then cut out the whole side of a MK2. I too was waiting on the Farish RFO - I have a BUO etch glued on to a farish shell waiting in the "to do box."  

 

robert

Hi Robert,

 

Don't tempt fate - we don't want to make Bachfar wonder about doing the BUO at all.

 

But - you could be right!

 

Thanks

[bigP]

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Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Robert,

 

I made a 3D print tool to assist me in cutting and filling Dapol Mk3s to produce sleepers.  It uses Shapeways WSF so isn't too expensive.  If you think it'd be useful to you I can put it up on Shapeways so you can get a set.

 

ZZZ-1EP_001.jpg

 

 

The idea is you dismantle your coach and insert the tool from the inside of the Dapol mk3 (there is a tool for each side).  The window layout is not symmetrical so there is a little 'T' on the tool to indicate 'TOP'.

It locates by having lumps for the sleeper windows with the end-most lumps being the doors which obviously don't need moving and keep it in place.  Mostly you'll be filling in gaps, but there are a couple of bits you'll need to cut out where a sleeper window sits between the middle of two TSO windows.  For glazing I intend to re-use the Dapol glazing by cutting and filing to size, but you could use clear sheet plastic too I guess.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

Hi Paul,

 

That sounds like a very useful tool to have!

 

Thanks for advising us of it. I will keep an eye on Shapeways and, between now and then, decide if this is the way for me in future.

 

My supply of Farish Mk3 Sleepers is bound to run out before long and I still need to do some repaints into the new Serco Caledonian Sleeper livery.

 

Thanks

[bigP]

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Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Robert Shrives]

Hi the remaining bargains went at Club open day at Dapol so you were lucky !

 

Robert

[bigP]

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Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Robert Shrives]

Well a few years down the road and we are nearly there with Dapol now in the final throws of liveries for sleepers - and a good set of choices  along with KM tech  doing some specials also price  at £25 a go seems a fair price compared to the Farish prices being quoted about the place.

 

Robert