Model Rail 215 November 2015

[rue_d_etropal]

I was talking to one of our club members last night, and he said he had encountered similar problems with the latest Beattie tank locos. I am a bit concerned the new USA tank loco might have the same problem , as I think it is same manufacturer. It should not be necessary to fix yourself and the design fault needs fixing before it reaches the customer. We have had back to back problems on some Hornby locos which derailed on our old OO layout which was built in the 80s using the then finescale rail, yet other makes ran straight from the box and even old Lima coarse wheels ran through the points, even if they also touched the sleepers.

[mevaman]

You should look at the Retailer Commisions thread as this has a lot of info.

 

I have posted that for some new stock, I have derailments which are due to back to backs being out. Additionally some stock will run on one of club layouts sweetly and derail on another. I have most problems with Hornby stock but have experienced it from all manufacturers.

 

Just to clarify, the USA tank is being made by Bachmann and not in the same factories as the 02 and Well Tank. This, however is not a guarantee as I have s few Bachmann locos where I have had to adjust the back to backs.

 

Hope that this helps

 

Andrew

[dibber25]

just got my copy today. Only just back from abroad so eagerly waited. Overall a very good issue. I prefer it to last one. still could do with some drawings, despite hat Chris says. It is something in old magazines  I go back to years later, and the French magazine Voie Libre always has a pull out of scale drawings. The drawing might not be of interest now , but often are useful later on.

I still find 3 pages too much for a revue of a new loco. Maybe if it as combined with an article on the prototype, including drawings.

As for variety of articles, I am very broad minded in my interests in railways and their surroundings, so most articles will interest me, unless I feel I have seen something similar recently. Highly technical articles on building , say a brass loco kit, will leave me cold, and DCC artlcles tend to be ignored. I have tried DCC, know what it can and can not do, and it now seems to be getting complicated, when it started out as the 'easy option'.

One thing I would like to see in UK magazines is the inclusion of articles on non British railways. I know it has been tried, but squashed by the loud crowd who think railways stop at the channel. Oddly enough WW1 themed layouts have got through, but I made a point of having my WW1 layout in CM, as based on the guidelines it was a continental model railway. If you are going to have that sort of rule or guideline, then it should be kept to, and not bent to satisfy those who wanted something in their British orientated magazine. Sure to stir up something there, I hope.

An idea for an article, how about bricks, or more importantly the different brick bonds and which ones people should have on their models. All too often , period buildings have modern stretcher bond, although I have come across some older buildings with this bond.

Good to see updates on USA tank loco. The Dawson-Hall buildings look interesting, but I take it the surfaces are printed, not laser cut. I do prefer the 3D look, but that can be a challenge, especially hen using laser cutting. I know Chris said he was not aware of the LCUT model buildings, so I would still like to see something using these versatile laser cut kits. Only problem I have it the LCUT buildings is the brick bond, and I have discussed this with them, and fully understand the difficulties of doing anything other than stretcher bond.

 

Paper quality does not bother me. I have found that in hot weather it makes no difference as ink still can come off on fingers, and I am more interested in the content not what is printed on. Arguments for better quality paper , increasing cost, can damage the viability of a good quality magazine such as Model Rail.

Haven't got the Dawson Hall buildings in front of me but from memory they are not printed. They are laser cut and the surfaces are hand-finished where appropriate. (CJL)

[dibber25]

 

 

You should look at the Retailer Commisions thread as this has a lot of info.

 

I have posted that for some new stock, I have derailments which are due to back to backs being out. Additionally some stock will run on one of club layouts sweetly and derail on another. I have most problems with Hornby stock but have experienced it from all manufacturers.

 

Just to clarify, the USA tank is being made by Bachmann and not in the same factories as the 02 and Well Tank. This, however is not a guarantee as I have s few Bachmann locos where I have had to adjust the back to backs.

 

Hope that this helps

 

Andrew

 

I was talking to one of our club members last night, and he said he had encountered similar problems with the latest Beattie tank locos. I am a bit concerned the new USA tank loco might have the same problem , as I think it is same manufacturer. It should not be necessary to fix yourself and the design fault needs fixing before it reaches the customer. We have had back to back problems on some Hornby locos which derailed on our old OO layout which was built in the 80s using the then finescale rail, yet other makes ran straight from the box and even old Lima coarse wheels ran through the points, even if they also touched the sleepers.

Please don't start pointless scares like this. The isolated problem with our O2 took moments to cure and does not affect the bulk of the models. Nor should it suggest that there is a design fault or anything inherently wrong with products from that factory. There isn't. I have since bought the sample model and ordered a second one.

 

The USA tank is being produced by Bachmann and is of a totally different mechanical design from the O2. There is no reason whatever to be 'concerned' about such issues with the USAs and for the record, in 52 years of writing reviews this is the first instance I've ever had of a back-to-back problem on a model. Even then it was a combination of the back-to-back issue and the clearances on my code 83 points. I have no doubt that it would not have been an issue on 'universal' code 100 points. 

 

Once again for the avoidance of doubt: Though the USA was initially a Dapol project it was switched to Bachmann more than two years ago and has been clearly shown as Bachmann ever since. (CJL)

[Jongudmund]

I bought this issue yesterday as insurance against a possible hour wait sitting in my car between meetings. Turns out I needed it and a very enjoyable read it was too.

[Neal Ball]

Has everyone got their subs copy? Mine hasn't arrived.... :-(

[Nile]

For those after a digital copy Model Rail is available from Zinio as well as Pocketmags.

[bcnPete]

For those after a digital copy Model Rail is available from Zinio as well as Pocketmags.

Thanks for the tip - have had a lot of error messages recently so I might give them a try....

[Tony Davis]

Has everyone got their subs copy? Mine hasn't arrived.... :-(

Can't answer for anyone else, but mine arrived last week I believe.

[rue_d_etropal]

Chris, I was not trying scare people, just passing on comments from others who have bought some of the models. It has not helped when manufacturers have been changed, new players entered the field, and a lot of promises. I am now relieved to hear the USA tank is Bachmann as they seem to have had fewer problems recently. 

As for the Dawson-Hall buildings, it is not very clear from the photos how the surface is finished. Their website did not fully answer my query either. Being a fan of embossed surfaces(whether it is plastic or laser cut), I probably tend to look more carefully at model buildings. I know from talking to one manufacturer of printed backscenes and building kits, that they sometimes struggle to persuade the printers to print matt, not gloss, and this can make a big difference.

[dibber25]

Chris, I was not trying scare people, just passing on comments from others who have bought some of the models. It has not helped when manufacturers have been changed, new players entered the field, and a lot of promises. I am now relieved to hear the USA tank is Bachmann as they seem to have had fewer problems recently. 

As for the Dawson-Hall buildings, it is not very clear from the photos how the surface is finished. Their website did not fully answer my query either. Being a fan of embossed surfaces(whether it is plastic or laser cut), I probably tend to look more carefully at model buildings. I know from talking to one manufacturer of printed backscenes and building kits, that they sometimes struggle to persuade the printers to print matt, not gloss, and this can make a big difference.

I understand that some of the Dawson Hall surfaces - brickwork for instance - are printed. (CJL)

[railroadbill]

I don't have a copyright free picture of it but the late Andy Hart did a very nice diorama based on Le Touquet with the two car MU from or for Paris crossing the apron next to a couple of light aircraft and the plane from Gatwick (a 111 ISTR) It's the only airfield where I've taxied an aircraft over a railway line (very carefully!!) though by then it had long closed.

The line was a short branch off the Paris-Boulogne-Calais main line used by the Silver Arrow service  (London Vic- Gatwick- Le Touquet- Paris Nord) The line crossed the now closed secondary runway 25-07 before the 25 displaced threshold then crossed the main apron to reach a single platform alongside the terminal building. Publicity shots with the train in front of the the plane implied that you stepped straight from one to the other but the "station" was groundside and pasengers had to go via the terminal. I'd always assumed the branch was originally for fuel etc but it was actually built specially for the Silver Arrow service. If you look on Google earth you can trace it quite easily though most of the track on the actual airfield has now been lifted.

 

 

Back in 1977 I traveled from Paris to Le Touquet by train, which ran to the airport terminal as you mentioned, Pacific231G. I then flew to Southend airport with British Air Ferries, on a dart Herald. This must have been before the Silver Arrow service mentioned in your post ran. [ I'd also gone to Ostend from Southend with BAF and then went to Brussels by train. ] The train I went to le touquet on was this, apologies for poor pic but I cant find my slides of this at the moment, so I copied it from an article I wrote ages ago for a club newsletter.  

 

 

The RTG was a 5 car set with a Turmo 1200kw gas turbine at one end and a 820kw turbine at the other, both driving Voith hydraulic transmissions. All I can remember is that it was a very pleasant run. I did see a model of one of these at an exhibition some years ago, might have been by Jouef?  Apparently 1 RTG set was preserved, as were 6 dart Heralds.  The last T2000 in service ran in 2005 between Lyon and Bordeaux. Perhaps not the cheapest train to operate. There was also an earlier 4 car unit, the T1000,  with 1 gas turbine and 1 diesel engine.

 

Thanks for bringing Le Touquet up, dug up some interesting memories. When the rails there were rusty, I did taxi across them as a passenger in a Cessna 152 but that is a very different story. :-)

 

In another Model Rail I'd like to see Chris's airport layout with the Bristol Freighter he mentioned loading cars (another Southend operation)  - shades of the scene  in Goldfinger, but that was rather tongue in cheek!

[Catkins]

I was taken with the cover photo, but disappointed with the article in question. I found the article on RAF bases interesting, along with the piece on the RAS.

I don't buy it regularly, so it takes a good cover to get me to buy it, and I hope next month's coast feature is worth getting. (But I will buy it anyway)

[Fat Controller]

Back in 1977 I traveled from Paris to Le Touquet by train, which ran to the airport terminal as you mentioned, Pacific231G. I then flew to Southend airport with British Air Ferries, on a dart Herald. This must have been before the Silver Arrow service mentioned in your post ran. [ I'd also gone to Ostend from Southend with BAF and then went to Brussels by train. ] The train I went to le touquet on was this, apologies for poor pic but I cant find my slides of this at the moment, so I copied it from an article I wrote ages ago for a club newsletter.  

 

P1120734.JPG

 

The RTG was a 5 car set with a Turmo 1200kw gas turbine at one end and a 820kw turbine at the other, both driving Voith hydraulic transmissions. All I can remember is that it was a very pleasant run. I did see a model of one of these at an exhibition some years ago, might have been by Jouef?  Apparently 1 RTG set was preserved, as were 6 dart Heralds.  The last T2000 in service ran in 2005 between Lyon and Bordeaux. Perhaps not the cheapest train to operate. There was also an earlier 4 car unit, the T1000,  with 1 gas turbine and 1 diesel engine.

 

Thanks for bringing Le Touquet up, dug up some interesting memories. When the rails there were rusty, I did taxi across them as a passenger in a Cessna 152 but that is a very different story. :-)

 

In another Model Rail I'd like to see Chris's airport layout with the Bristol Freighter he mentioned loading cars (another Southend operation)  - shades of the scene  in Goldfinger, but that was rather tongue in cheek!

The RTG you saw in model form was indeed a Jouef model. They worked on a number of routes; from Lyon to Nantes, from St Lazare to Cherbourg and from Paris Nord to Le Touquet and Boulogne Aeroglisseurs (the hoverport, which was just south of the steelworks at Outreau). On the latter three routes, a supplement was payable, as I discovered to my cost. They were very comfortable, with even the second-class seating being fitted with armrests. They weren't too noisy inside, but outside; the ones from Lyon used the route up the Azergues valley, where I do my grape-picking. The engine noise would arrive ten minuutes before the train, and continue to be audible for fifteen minutes after. The Turbomeca engines were designed for helicopters; I think the bigger one was from the Frélon, and the smaller one from the Alouette.

[railroadbill]

Thanks for that, Brian. Vaguely remember this being a comfortable run, guess that noise and fuel consumption went against them. Just looked up that RTGs were built  from 1972 to 1976 so when I had my journey on one it must have been fairly new. If the last one ran in 2005 they must have been reliable. data I'm reading says that the total train weight was 225 tonnes so with over 2000kw they had a good power/weight ratio. Also says that the smaller turbine was shut down once train was at speed.

Replaced by class x 72500 dmus (which I've never seen).

 

I must have visited Boulogne Aeroglisseurs on my one and only hovercraft cross channel trip as well. The stuff that's been and gone!

 

Bill

[railroadbill]

Just thought that the only other gas turbine train I've seen, but not travelled on, was the Canadian Turbo. Came across this in Toronto and it was very noisy!

[dibber25]

Just thought that the only other gas turbine train I've seen, but not travelled on, was the Canadian Turbo. Came across this in Toronto and it was very noisy!

Britain had two gas turbines - one of them built in Switzerland for the Great Western but not delivered until after Nationalisation. No. 18000. it still exists in scannable form (though not in original condition and without innards). Now that all the major steam and diesel classes have been done in RTR and quite a few of the odd-balls have been tackled, too, it cries out to be looked at by a major manufacturer. I've mentioned it to Rapido but they've already got their future products short-listed. Maybe Heljan will take an interest now the Met electric is done and the L&B loco nearly done. Anyone listening?? (CJL)

[PhilJ W]

Britain had two gas turbines - one of them built in Switzerland for the Great Western but not delivered until after Nationalisation. No. 18000. it still exists in scannable form (though not in original condition and without innards). Now that all the major steam and diesel classes have been done in RTR and quite a few of the odd-balls have been tackled, too, it cries out to be looked at by a major manufacturer. I've mentioned it to Rapido but they've already got their future products short-listed. Maybe Heljan will take an interest now the Met electric is done and the L&B loco nearly done. Anyone listening?? (CJL)

This was converted to an electric locomotive without much external modifications other than the pantographs.

[dibber25]

This was converted to an electric locomotive without much external modifications other than the pantographs.

And fairly substantial modification to the frame and bogie mounting at one end. It was actually a load bank for adhesion testing, not an electric locomotive as such. I have studied this loco in some considerable detail and I was the first person to examine the material on 18000 held at the NRM. Phil Atkins knew of my interest in the gas turbines and invited me to come up to York and examine the books and records which he believed had not been looked at since they were first assembled. I wrote it up at the time in Trains Illustrated during the 1980s. (CJL)

[The Stationmaster]

Britain had two gas turbines - one of them built in Switzerland for the Great Western but not delivered until after Nationalisation. No. 18000. it still exists in scannable form (though not in original condition and without innards). Now that all the major steam and diesel classes have been done in RTR and quite a few of the odd-balls have been tackled, too, it cries out to be looked at by a major manufacturer. I've mentioned it to Rapido but they've already got their future products short-listed. Maybe Heljan will take an interest now the Met electric is done and the L&B loco nearly done. Anyone listening?? (CJL)

It has been 'looked at' by a couple of potential parties but I got the impression from what they said after 'looking at it' that their interest would probably not turn into anything tangible for a considerable time - if ever.  But that obviously doesn't mean that others might have had a look at it in a more positive manner.  It strikes me as very much the sort of project which might appeal to Heljan judging by their past history and it seems the Rapido team are also heading towards Didcot shortly although I think Bill's attention might be directed elsewhere once he gets there!

[2mm Andy]

This was converted to an electric locomotive without much external modifications other than the pantographs.

 

Wasn't that 18100, the other gas turbine loco built for the GWR?

 

Andy

[rob D2]

My late father worked for RAS ! I have a picture of him at Croydon with a DH89.

 

Essentially model mags gave a limited number of subjects so they reappear every few years - modelling in the snow anyone ? Or detailing diesels ?

 

This is why I gave up with subscriptions to all of them . I'd love a mag just full of layouts as that is my inspiration but of course not possible .

 

Those moaning about lack of N gauge - in a small enough market N gauge is only 10% of the total in told so expect 10 % coverage

[dibber25]

Wasn't that 18100, the other gas turbine loco built for the GWR?

 

Andy

Yes, it was. 18000 went to Austria as an experimental vehicle for the research people in Vienna. 18100 became E2001 and tested the wires on the Manchester-Crewe before being scrapped. (CJL)

[railroadbill]

Certainly would like a 4mm model of 18000 or 18100, be good if a manufacturer did look at these. I've got an F J Roche drawing of 18000 in "Historic loco drawings in 4mm scale" which cost me 30 shillings in Foyles rather a long time ago, think now a model would look impressive. Especially with an appropriate sound chip....

 

 

 

There was of course one more gas turbine loco that ran in the UK, the GT3.

 

 

This 5" gauge model was on display at the 2012 Model Engineering exhibition at Alexandra Palace.  It's powered by a miniature gas turbine engine (I think designed for model helicopters?) and drove the wheels via a gear box.  They fired up the turbine and ran the wheels on rollers.

 

I think there was a youtube video of it running on 5" gauge track.

 

The outline of the  loco looked very accurate.  The whole concept and workmanship  was, shall I say, jaw-droppingly incredible.

 

The guys on the stand had a selection of small gas turbines they were developing themselves. They had a lot of engineering skills and knowledge between them.

 

Anyway, a bit away from small scale model railways but interesting to see what is being done the other side of the fence.

 

[railroadbill]

Going back to issue 215, just got round to  reading in-depth George Dent's article on weathering, the rusty wagons look good, and using the aircraft/military modelling techniques of pre shading was interesting, some good suggestions to experiment with.  Been looking at britmodeller.com as well after Richard Foster's recommendation, (another web site, sigh!) 

Interesting issue.