Chris Dark Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hi all, I recently bought a new loco http://www.buffersmodelrailways.com/products/exclusives/locomotives-150/Bachmann-32-003z-collett-hall-class-4-6-0-gwr-green-4953-pitchford-hall-buffers-exclusive/itemand noticed that it is a different shade to a 28xx i bought from hattons a year or so ago. Is this correct that different types of loco had different shades? I they both have "Great Western" on the tender with no badge so I believe them to be same era? Any advice is apreciated. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 You might find this website helpful for GWR locomotive liveries. And yes, there were slightly different greens used by the GWR over time. More significantly you will find that different manufacturers use different finishes for their models and even a single manufacturer that uses different factories might produce slightly different results. In practice paints fade so having some differences in shade and tone is not unrealistic. Having said all that, a lot of people are unhappy with the green currently used by Hornby - who I assume manufactured your 28xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hi Chris, In theory all classes were painted with the same shade of Mid Chrome Green (the nearest modern equivalent being Deep Bronze Green). Some sources state that pre-1928 it was a slightly darker shade. The finish on models does vary considerably as you have found - I suppose it is "manufacturing tolerance" but the real thing varied too, due to heat and oil staining. A loco that's been in service a long time could appear almost black. The old lead based paints would steadily darken due to sulphur in the air. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dark Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Thank you both for your repsonses. both locos are Bachmann which is slightly dissapointing in that respect. But like you both mention there are plenty of reasons as to why different shades appeared. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Swindon works under the GWR and BR WR mixed their own paint so variations obviously crept in however there is something very wrong with the Hornby "green" I carefully repainted a Hornby King with railmatch GWR Green keeping the Hornby lining because it looked so sad and the Bachmann 64XX looks a bit insipid. My recollection is that BR Green went darker in service but went light when weathered, Some of the spare tenders dumped at Gloucester Triangle were almost Hornby green by the early 1980s. It was also glossy not eggshell when clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Bachmann have also come under fire for changing the shade of green used on SR coaches IIRC. It was also glossy not eggshell when clean. Shine is one of those factors that does not scale well. A glossy model will reflect light from sources that are out of scale with it, thus destroying the illusion that we are trying to create. Also, locos do not tend to look shiny at a distance. It is only close up that the reflections become obvious. At a normal viewing distance of ~1m, we should be getting a view similar to the real thing 76m away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 + Between RTR makers this happens with coaches too.- try collecting a matching rake of Centenary Stock. N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted October 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2015 Thank you both for your repsonses. both locos are Bachmann which is slightly dissapointing in that respect Hi all, I recently bought a new loco http://www.buffersmodelrailways.com/products/exclusives/locomotives-150/Bachmann-32-003z-collett-hall-class-4-6-0-gwr-green-4953-pitchford-hall-buffers-exclusive/itemand noticed that it is a different shade to a 28xx i bought from hattons a year or so ago. Bachmann didn't make the 28xx though, it's a Hornby model. I have the NRM version and the green is horribly insipid, especially when placed next to other models. The Bachmann green is a lot closer to reality IMHO. Spot the 28xx tender.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dark Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Sorry you are right, it's not a 28, It's a 3000 Class ROD. The 3000 and 45XX I have are both Bachmann and both the same green, You would think in this day and age matching the colour across manufacturers and models wouldnt be so hard.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 50? Or just the 3 pictured? I find that, for some reason, Hornby really struggle to do a decent green for Great Western engines. The 2800 and the 7200 seem too light and too blue. The Star is a lack-lustre effort that is almost brownish. The Tintagel Castle was probably their best effort. Bachmann manage a much deeper effect. It favours their Hall, even if the orange lining is too prominent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 You might find this website helpful for GWR locomotive liveries. And yes, there were slightly different greens used by the GWR over time. More significantly you will find that different manufacturers use different finishes for their models and even a single manufacturer that uses different factories might produce slightly different results. In practice paints fade so having some differences in shade and tone is not unrealistic.... So there really could be as many as Fifty Shades of Green? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Like others I find the Hrnby colour to be a bit too pale. I've painted kits (and resprayed Hornby) using Phoenix precison Pre and Post 1928 greens. The Pre 1928 is a little darker and bluer to my eyes. Once weathered the difference is quite subtle. I've also used Railmatch GWR green (post 1928?) which was a good match for the green on a Bachmann Great Western liveried 56xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted October 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2015 So there really could be as many as Fifty Shades of Green? Well, there's at least forty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Caerphilly Castle (in the Steam museum at Swindon) is reputed to be the correct shade of green although it was obviously repainted back into GWR colours after a stint as a BR engine. Never base your judgment on a photograph; the green can look really bright in sunny pictures (google a few photos of the "shirtbutton" pannier tank 3650 at Didcot) but in real life it is most definitely darker. I doubt the works green was totally standard back in the day, and green is a bit of a fugitive colour anyway; it weathers quickly. As for the finish, Caerphilly Castle is eggshell rather than gloss. I think a totally flat matt looks wrong on models; the Humbrol satin aerosol is about right but black is the only useful colour they make (I used it to turn my Hornby Jinty black from its rather fanciful crimson lake); Humbrol don't do GWR/BR green in a spray can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I thought 4073'd paint had seen better days when I visited last summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Humbrol don't do GWR/BR green in a spray can.And their acryclic GWR / BR Green (RC405) is pretty suspect anyway. I have tried it and it looks too blue/grey. It is not as warm as chrome green. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And their acryclic GWR / BR Green (RC405) is pretty suspect anyway. I have tried it and it looks too blue/grey. It is not as warm as chrome green. I've been unimpressed by all the colours of 'railmatch' acrylics I've tried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I believe that the NRM regard 4003 Lode Star's Swindon applied paintwork as the most accurate rendition and the paintwork is considered an artifact in itself. Whenever it has been suggested that the loco should be restored to running order the inevitable damage to this paintwork has been given as a reason for not doing so. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I believe that the NRM regard 4003 Lode Star's Swindon applied paintwork as the most accurate rendition and the paintwork is considered an artifact in itself. Whenever it has been suggested that the loco should be restored to running order the inevitable damage to this paintwork has been given as a reason for not doing so. Ray. Let's hope it didn't get rained on when they took it to York this week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well, there's at least forty. Not if you go on any (also painted deep bronze green ) Land Rover forum they have been on about the 100 shades of green and there even worse / fanatical about getting the shade right shade of green than railway folk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Sorry you are right, it's not a 28, It's a 3000 Class ROD. The 3000 and 45XX I have are both Bachmann and both the same green, You would think in this day and age matching the colour across manufacturers and models wouldnt be so hard.... But what do you match it to? If you match to a prototype paint chip (if you can find an authentic one that has survived unaffected since the GWR days) you will end up with a model that will likely appear too dark as colour doesn't scale well. So then you have to lighten the shade a bit to get the model to look acceptable. What colour do you mix in to lighten it? Model colour is a minefield. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAustin Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 My understanding is that the GWR used the same shade of green for locos throughout its existence, but that the final varnish coat was changed several times, which had the effect of changing the perceived colour. Having said that, a newly painted loco would look different from one due for the shops due to wear and tear. Also, the point about mixing the paint is valid as well: the final colour could be different depending on the quality of the light at the time. Mark A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 My understanding is that the GWR used the same shade of green for locos throughout its existence, but that the final varnish coat was changed several times, which had the effect of changing the perceived colour. Having said that, a newly painted loco would look different from one due for the shops due to wear and tear. Also, the point about mixing the paint is valid as well: the final colour could be different depending on the quality of the light at the time. I have always had doubts about that. The paint 'patterns' were reputedly kept in a dark place. Now it would be a strange thing if the foreman painter mixed paint to a pattern at night under artificial light. But as far as I am aware the transport finishers such as Williamsons supplied ready mixed paint to many of the railway companies in the 20th Century. The company still has the formulas and (via David Jenkinson while at the NRM) supplied me with dry patterns for the final NER green, LNER 'Doncaster' green, and LNWR plum, split white and lining yellow. The old yellowing effect of varnish, particularly when used several times in place of a repaint, certainly did play a part in the final appearance of colours. As an aside, the "GWR" and "BR" greens used on preserved locomotives certainly vary a lot, and while some can be signed off as being well outside the accepted spectrum, some locos appear to have followed the model world and look distinctly Landrover Green! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dark Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 I agree, trying to colour match from photos is a near impossible task. The main reason for this topic is my purchases were from the same manufacturer who has used a distinctly darker green on 2 locos than my existing 2, I have now received the new Hornby king in GWR livery which is an obvious lighter shade. 5 GWR locos from the same era with 3 distinctly different greens. It's not that big a deal, but I just presumed the same shade would be used, at least by the same manufacturer. Glad this thread has had other interesting information added to it though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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