Causes of SPADs

[298]

I read this topic with interest not least as an informed railway staff member but never in the driving grades.

 

The stories and opinions of experienced professionals are invaluable and lessons could and should be learned.  SPADs don't just happen - they are caused.

 

 

 

It is interesting to note that TPWS has reduced the seriousness of a significant number of SPADs, but the number of activations is at a similar level as incidents before it was fitted. Some of these might be due to railhead conditions or signals thrown in front of approaching trains, but the underlying message is the level of Human error hasn't reduced, and TPWS is only reducing the serious effects of these mistakes.

[Glorious NSE]

That was surely the point of it though, to try and catch those mistakes before they turned into something more serious?

[Talltim]

Look out for the results of this investigation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/two-signal-passed-at-danger-incidents

[Edwin_m]

Absolutely. Two high profile ones that come to mind are Southall where the ATP was fitted, but not operational, and Ladbroke Grove, where I believe the HST's clear signal will have gone back to red as the Turbo occupied the track circuit...neither one was effectively preventable by ATP (though the first one would have been if it had been working!)

 

Not sure I've heard of one on due to low adhesion, but it's entirely possible as per your description, none of these systems are effective if you have no grip. Google "RAIB Esher 2005" for a modern example, sans ATP but I can't see how that system would have made the slightest difference...

At Ladbroke Grove the SPAD was by the Turbo, which was not ATP fitted.  Had the Turbo been fitted with ATP or even TPWS then it might have passed the signal (ATP sometimes allows this) but it would have stopped well before any possible collision could occur. 

[Glorious NSE]

I'm aware the cause is the turbo having the SPAD, but my belief is the HST will have also had a SPAD, which no train protection system would have prevented, caused by the Turbo suddenly occupying it's route and putting it's signal back.

[roythebus]

Going back to my incident at Vauxhall, from memory the rail as dry, it was a sunny day. the brake at that time was effing useless! At the Hampton court incident I had, the rail was wet, it was autumn. The WSP operated continually over the crossover and along the platform. nothing I could have done would have prevented that. some time later BR fitted the "panic button" which cut out the WSP and locked the wheels.

 

The problem with the early Westcode was that it was possible for the WSP to be operating on every axle on a train, hence the damned thing would never stop! At low speeds as per my Vauxhall incident the brake was just useless at low speed.

[Southernman46]

The move towards CWR and fully welded S&C on the SR has drastically reduced the amount of traction bonding around joints and subsequently the incidence of returning to danger in front of trains thus reducing the amount of Cat B SPADS's

[Rugd1022]

The route I've been learning this week from Acton Wells to Battersea via Clapham, although no great distance, has several sections where a  read through / read across can occur, plus one particular section near Kew which is almost railheight deep in dead Autumn leaves. Some signals tend to appear briefly, disappear then appear again but I can still see the next signal beyond it which can sometimes throw the unwary. We've been allowed the use of a spare light engine to do it, always the best way I think so we're already getting a feel for the route. Travelling with another driver you've never met before in the cab of a unit can actually be more distracting when you're trying to learn the road, the conversion usually turns away from the maps and onto ''oh you were at Stonebridge Park then.... did you know so and so...?'' One distraction I picked up on yesterday as we passed through Clapham Junction was the sheer number of trains on the move at any given moment, I counted eight as we slowly crawled along the platform!

 

Even once you've signed for a new route, the old adage 'you only really learn it when you start driving over it' still rings true. This is how you get a feel for the Multi SPAD signals, the read throughs, the read across situations and the dodgy gradients here and there. All good fun and part of the job.

[roythebus]

You should try Clapham Junction in the rush hour then! Possibly up to 15 trains moving at once.

[Southernman46]

You should try Clapham Junction in the rush hour then! Possibly up to 15 trains moving at once.

My personal record was 18 visible between CJ and Queenstown Rd / Pouparts Jn - whilst waiting on P10 to catch the train up to Waterloo to do a Track Section Manager examination - 5 on the Central side and 13 on the Wessex side - 10 on the various Windsors/Mains plus a 313 approaching from the WLL and 2 in the middle sidings - and I remember thinking "I need to get a different job"

 

I do miss the annuciator bell on the Up Main Fast that disappeared with the 90's re-signalling - as a kid that always made CJ seems extra busy when stood under the massive Northern Rock sign - little did I realise what a part the place would play in my adult life - jumpers for goalposts isn't it - hmmm ?

[Rugd1022]

My personal record was 18 visible between CJ and Queenstown Rd / Pouparts Jn - whilst waiting on P10 to catch the train up to Waterloo to do a Track Section Manager examination - 5 on the Central side and 13 on the Wessex side - 10 on the various Windsors/Mains plus a 313 approaching from the WLL and 2 in the middle sidings - and I remember thinking "I need to get a different job"

 

I do miss the annuciator bell on the Up Main Fast that disappeared with the 90's re-signalling - as a kid that always made CJ seems extra busy when stood under the massive Northern Rock sign - little did I realise what a part the place would play in my adult life - jumpers for goalposts isn't it - hmmm ?

 

The road learning visit to Clapham this week has been the first time I've set foot on the station since 1983, yet despite the infrastructure remaining largely the same it feels like a totally different place somehow. Back then the woodwork on the station buildings, signage and stairs etc still bore some evidence of its BR / SR paint scheme and the throb of 33s and 73s seemed to be ever present. Today's trip was cut short and we went for a walk round Battersea (near the Tarmac unloading terminal) and for a few moments I thought I was back in the '70s, most of the buildings in the area haven't been altered or cleaned since that time. On the way back to Clapham we nipped into a café close to Queenstown Road station where the patrons all sounded like minor league villains from The Sweeney.... as we sat waiting for our character building full English breakfasts to be served I half expected John Thaw to burst in shouting ''get yer trousers on, you're nicked!''

 

Last trip tomorrow so I think I'll take my camera with me to bag some of the local 'atmosphere'  

[pH]

On the way back to Clapham we nipped into a café close to Queenstown Road station where the patrons all sounded like minor league villains from The Sweeney.... as we sat waiting for our character building full English breakfasts to be served I half expected John Thaw to burst in shouting ''get yer trousers on, you're nicked!''

 

What kind of cafe is that??!!

[roythebus]

"Battersea dog's home".

 

"Yeah, so she is".

[The Stationmaster]

Look out for the results of this investigation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/two-signal-passed-at-danger-incidents

Sounds like they ought to start by getting the facts straight as the first one seems to have happened on a  line that doesn't exist! (there being no Up, or Down Westbury Line at Reading West Jcn- unless somebody has moved the junction the better part of half a mile, or more).

 

The interesting comment is the one about Driver fatigue because in the past it very rarely featured as a factor in SPAD incidents except sometimes SPADs could be correlated with either the early part or the end of a turn (but the turn length was not consistent in the latter case.  A large amount of research was carried as turn lengths rose above the old 8 hours limit and in the early 1990s but again no correlation showed up related to fatigue.  However a significant difference might be that back then the only duties Drivers were involved in were train preparation (and disposal) and actually driving.

 

Similarly SNCF which can have, and has long had, significantly longer driving periods within a turn and longer periods (up to 9 hours) without a break than Britain has a massively lower SPAD incidence although other factors I outlined in an earlier post are also relevant of course.

 

Far more significant factors have emerged in past studies particularly cab environment (e.g. night time, all the cab windows closed and the heaters on can cause drowsiness) and in addition it is know to be difficult to judge distance running down to a red signal at night time.  Another factor worth remembering in the Reading incident - wherever it really happened - is that all the signals in that area are new and that almost all are sited in different places from the past signalling thus affecting braking distances especially with a very heavy train.  the same does not apply at Ruscombe but if the same set of vehicles has had two SPADs I think I'd be far more inclined to start with them and loco than I would be to gallop off looking at the Driver's working hours; I wonder if a full braking test was carried out on the train?

 

Coming on to ATP the original trials conducted on an experimental installation on the Badminton route were quite revealing.  An HST set taken out of traffic with no special preparation on brakes etc consistently stopped within signal overlaps or in rear of the signal (at lower speeds) over a full range of speeds.  A Class 56 tested with a loaded train of mgr hoppers barely managed to stop within the overlap under the best conditions, under poor conditions it considstently over-ran the overlap or had a very erratic stopping distance depending on speed etc - and taht was with all teh wagon brakes operational and in good condition.  The conclusion was that the system was effective for a unit train such as an HST but utterly hopeless for freights.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm aware the cause is the turbo having the SPAD, but my belief is the HST will have also had a SPAD, which no train protection system would have prevented, caused by the Turbo suddenly occupying it's route and putting it's signal back.

The Inquiry Reports states that the Slough Signaller replaced SN120 to danger in the face of the HST but it is not known if it was in time for the Driver to see it - at an estimated impact speed of 130 mph I doubt if the HST had slowed and it definitely hadn't slowed significantly.  The only form of train equipment fit which would have prevented the collision was either ATP or TPWS but as the Driver of the Turbo obviously cancelled the AWS warning what else might he have canceled if it had been fitted?

[Rugd1022]

What kind of cafe is that??!!

 

Continental chipolatas on the menu...! Not sure what sort of meat was in them though.

[Oldddudders]

Rugd1022, on 03 Dec 2015 - 22:01, said:

The road learning visit to Clapham this week has been the first time I've set foot on the station since 1983, yet despite the infrastructure remaining largely the same it feels like a totally different place somehow. Back then the woodwork on the station buildings, signage and stairs etc still bore some evidence of its BR / SR paint scheme and the throb of 33s and 73s seemed to be ever present. Today's trip was cut short and we went for a walk round Battersea (near the Tarmac unloading terminal) and for a few moments I thought I was back in the '70s, most of the buildings in the area haven't been altered or cleaned since that time. On the way back to Clapham we nipped into a café close to Queenstown Road station where the patrons all sounded like minor league villains from The Sweeney.... as we sat waiting for our character building full English breakfasts to be served I half expected John Thaw to burst in shouting ''get yer trousers on, you're nicked!''

 

Last trip tomorrow so I think I'll take my camera with me to bag some of the local 'atmosphere'

If you have time, Nidge, try to get a shot of the three levels. The former South London Line at the top, the Up and Down Ludgate Lines on the middle and the Stew Lane Yard entry to the car shed at the lowest. The routes you are learning used to be much more complicated past Longhedge Junction, with four lines headed round towards Battersea, instead of just the Battersea Reversible (from memory).

[roythebus]

Clapham Junction, probably the most complex non-junction in the world!

[Rivercider]

I think most people, when thinking of a SPAD have a vision of a train approaching a fixed signal (colour light or semaphore) which is displaying  stop aspect

and the train, for some reason or other fails to stop before the signal. These I presume form the bulk of the SPAD statistics.

How common now relatively are other types of SPAD some of which I remember from my railway career (albeit in an office)?

The examples I am thinking of mostly apply to freight trains I assume and include:-

Stop Board passed without authority. (I remember incidents on C2 freight only lines for example, though perhaps such lines no longer exist) 

A train halted at a level crossing due to equipment failure and the driver then restarts past a red signal having taken instuction from someone not authorised to give that permission.

And would an unauthorised move into an engineering possession count as a SPAD?

A train entering a line under PIlotman working without the authorisation of the pilotman   (an incident I remember would count as a six and a half mile SPAD overrun!)

 

Are such incidents relatively uncommon compared to a 'normal' SPAD?

 

cheers

 

cheers 

[Rugd1022]

I think most people, when thinking of a SPAD have a vision of a train approaching a fixed signal (colour light or semaphore) which is displaying  stop aspect

and the train, for some reason or other fails to stop before the signal. These I presume form the bulk of the SPAD statistics.

How common now relatively are other types of SPAD some of which I remember from my railway career (albeit in an office)?

The examples I am thinking of mostly apply to freight trains I assume and include:-

Stop Board passed without authority. (I remember incidents on C2 freight only lines for example, though perhaps such lines no longer exist) 

A train halted at a level crossing due to equipment failure and the driver then restarts past a red signal having taken instuction from someone not authorised to give that permission.

And would an unauthorised move into an engineering possession count as a SPAD?

A train entering a line under PIlotman working without the authorisation of the pilotman   (an incident I remember would count as a six and a half mile SPAD overrun!)

 

Are such incidents relatively uncommon compared to a 'normal' SPAD?

 

cheers

 

cheers 

 

'Stop Board' SPADs were quite common at one time, they do still occur occasionally and often result in the shunter and or the driver taking the blame. At Washwood Heath (aka Wash Ya Feet or Washwood Death) downside all Stop Boards now have signal number plates attached to them to mitigate any confusion, the irony being that they have seemingly random four digit numbers which are a right old mouthful when you have to repeat them back to the signaller on the SPT or GSM-R! Some of them are also double sided. At Bescot there are dozens of the damned things and you're not allowed to turn a wheel anywhere In the yards  there without verbal permission from the PIC.

 

Regarding possessions - passing (and therefore usually demolishing) a worksite marker board or possession limit board is most certainly a SPAD. It happened to me some years ago at Market Harborough but I was absolved of all blame - the marker board in question had been attached to the wrong line and shouldn't have been there! I was doing 40mph round a sharp bend so had no chance of stopping in time.

[4069]

Sounds like they ought to start by getting the facts straight as the first one seems to have happened on a  line that doesn't exist! (there being no Up, or Down Westbury Line at Reading West Jcn- unless somebody has moved the junction the better part of half a mile, or more).

 

Thanks for pointing that out - it will be corrected. The actual location is of course Reading Westbury Line Junction, and it was mis-described in the industry's investigation report.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for pointing that out - it will be corrected. The actual location is of course Reading Westbury Line Junction, and it was mis-described in the industry's investigation report.

Thanks for that - but rather worrying that the internal Report should get it wrong.  Best of luck with the investigation if you are involved - I await the conclusions with some interest having had a lot to do with stone train operation over a period of time.

[Rugd1022]

If you have time, Nidge, try to get a shot of the three levels. The former South London Line at the top, the Up and Down Ludgate Lines on the middle and the Stew Lane Yard entry to the car shed at the lowest. The routes you are learning used to be much more complicated past Longhedge Junction, with four lines headed round towards Battersea, instead of just the Battersea Reversible (from memory).

 

I'll give it a try once we start working the job in January mate, I'll be signing the paperwork for the route on Monday. The unloading sidings are actually on the site of part of Stew Lane Loco, I never thought I'd ever end up working there, not in a million years! As we stood there looking around the yard on Thursday we started talking about Spam Cans etc! There's a lot of weeds around Battersea Loop now but you can sort of make out where the other lines were, likewise around Longhedge Jcn. I'm looking forward to working a fully loaded train on the 'new' route after Christmas.

[Southernman46]

(I remember incidents on C2 freight only lines for example, though perhaps such lines no longer exist)

They do - the Westerleigh branch from Yate South Jn is one