Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[46256]

John just to confirm the motor shown is a High level one with better torque

[rowanj]

1 hour ago, 46256 said:

John just to confirm the motor shown is a High level one with better torque

I think it was his 1320. Seems very smooth and certainly powerful enough for the J21

[rowanj]

Boiler cut to clear the motor and gearbox. and the extension where it enters the cab marked and cut flushto the pont where it enters the cab. time to give it a run on the layout, where a short on the leading RH live driing wheel was spotted on the curve. Hopefully now sorted. I need to think about the best order to fit the cab/boiler/smokebox, so in the meantime, I'll tackle the tender body.

[micklner]

      Is the Boiler sitted down correctly front and back as it looks like is pushing the cab up at the front ? If yes to the Boiler, then the front of the cab needs some metal removed.

       The joys of building a old kit again , probably I had the same/similar issues on my Norton J25. If ?? the Cab is the correct part I would solder that in postion first, and then adjust the Boiler to fit.

[rowanj]

55 minutes ago, micklner said:

      Is the Boiler sitted down correctly front and back as it looks like is pushing the cab up at the front ? If yes to the Boiler, then the front of the cab needs some metal removed.

       The joys of building a old kit again , probably I had the same/similar issues on my Norton J25. If ?? the Cab is the correct part I would solder that in postion first, and then adjust the Boiler to fit.

It's sitting low at the front, Mick.There is a saddle to fit which will bring it up, but I will need to amend this part to accomodate the extended smokebox. It is the typical LRM part, with 2 folds, withe the leading part representing the smokebox front, the bottom having a hole where the front fixing bolt passes through, (so useful for positioning the boiler), and a rear part with a groove in which the boiler sits. It is the length of the short saturated smokebox. No doubt you would have one in your J25.

I'll  need to split the front from the etch. I' ll know for sure when I get round to fitting the smokebox.

 

On the basis that a picture paints a thousand words,,,

Edited January 7, 2023 by rowanj

[micklner]

I would wait until you get the longer smokebox before any further fitting decisions. You do not want to keep unsoldering bits !!.

[JaymzHatstand]

This is looking and sounding very much like mine, though I got carried away and did a bit more body detailing before getting it running properly! At least I can attend to the chassis separately to sort that! 

 

I have been struggling to get pickups fitted (always a bugbear of mine) without them being visible, can I ask where yours are, as I can't seem to make them out in the photos.

 

Looking forward to seeing further progress, as it's a good looking loco, though, as we're seeing, the kit is showing its age somewhat! 

 

I have one of Arthur's J25s in to pile, and I'm looking forward to that, his J71 was an absolute pleasure!

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

J

[rowanj]

There is nothing special about the pickups, J, other than the front piece of PCB was glued to an extra spacer between the front and centre drivers. I fitted that spacer both to give extra strength to the chassis - I dont thing those with the kit were sufficient- but at a height to allow the PCB to be flush with the bottom of the frames.. The rear PCB is glued to the firebox bottom, so is also "hidden" The chassis is live, so pickups obviously only go to the live wheels. 

I too will/have added extra details - the pipe running below the RH footplate to the vacuum standpipe, and a similar one on the LH side to the train heating hanging hose. Both are very conspicious on photos I have of 65110 and 65033 in later life- attached for info.

 

Work otherwise is just bog-standard, so not worth a blow by blow. The tender is complete, and I'll not fit much more to the loco body until I fit the boiler.  I fabricated the reversing lever, and will similarly fit the sanding rods ,

 

Having gone through the issues with this one, I will get another from LRM to build 65033, It's a pity that earlier builds by more accomplished folk than me seem to have vanished - was it David Addyman/Daddyman who made a whole series of mods to get the his build "right"? 

 

[jwealleans]

I had mine on the bench this week so I took the opportunity to have a look.   It had new frames last year - the ones it came with had been built with OO wheels and EM frame spacers, so there was no sideplay whatsoever.   It ran really well, but only in a dead straight line.

 

 

I was adding a crew and fire irons ready for Grantham's next show.

 

 

I didn't recall making the pickups, but I seem to have gone for the coiled springy ones.   I do recall adding the extra frame spacers at the bottom to hold the sleepers I use to attach pickups.  The tender ones are on top of the wheels as I had loads of room inside the tender body.   They're all made of springy PB wire.  The loco/tender plug comes from Peter's Spares.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by jwealleans

[rowanj]

Lovely model, Jonathan-puts mine to shame. Look forward to seeing Grantham and hopefully saying "hello" at the Newcastle Show.

 

Here on test, the J21 is doing what I will want it to do - pulling short passenger services (and local goods and transfer freights). I cant do much more until the boiler is soldered in place, as I suspect the heat involved may have an adverse effect on small details.

 

Anyway, so far so so-so. It runs well and this rake of 5 coaches, without any added weight in the loco body, was handled without difficulty.

[jwealleans]

4 hours ago, rowanj said:

Lovely model, Jonathan - puts mine to shame.

 

I think you're doing yourself down, John, but in any case I can't take credit for the building or painting, that was Ron Goult.   I renumbered it back to a pre 1946 number and weathered it, but that's all I've done cosmetically.

 

If you can't make it down to Harrogate then yes, we'll hopefully cross at Newcastle in November.

 

[rowanj]

Nearly there. The photo shows something odd about the cab roof which isnt clear to the naked eye, so I'll look at that. The extended smokebox was c/o Mike Meggison, and is from the North Eastern Kits test. The pipe under the footplate- there is one on each side- led to the vacuum brake (RH sise) and train heating pipe (LH side) o the buffer beam i added some additional pipework ahead of the leading splasher.To be honest, there is a fair bit which could be added to the basic kit, but it looks to be the only way to get a J21 for the forseeable future, and it is is an enjoyable, if sometimes frustrating build. I'll certainly get another from LRM to build 65033.

Still to do is some paintwork in the cab, number the RH side using Modelmaster straw numerals, print a smokebox door number,  glaze the windows and add crew. I'll also weather the loco to add  anvoverall dusty look, which seems to be the condition it was in after its' last General in 1956.

 

[rowanj]

Ready to go onto the layout where it will work local short-trip and pick-up goods turns from Heaton, as well as summer excursions around Northumberland, here is 65110.

I'm not the greatest painter, but I think the loco is suitably workstained for never having seen a cleaner after its' last General, but having been reasonably well maintained by 52B. On 65033, I'll use sturdier brass for the brake rigging, and something thicker for the rod to the mechanical lubricator, Neither are strong enough to prevent bending when handled, so I;ll straighten them when the loco goes into the loft tomorrow, ready for action.

[rowanj]

Just to wind up the LRM J21 build. here she is in service, returning to Tyneside on one of the Saturday "Garden Tours", this one to/from Rothbury. Thanks again to Mike Meggison for the extended smokebox, This really makes a distinctive difference between this ex-superheated loco and the short smokebox version which is the original kit.

Just to summarise, over and above what was in the kit, I added....

Extra cab detail, including a "planked "floor.- you get away with this with a slimline Highlevel gearbox and motor driving on the middle axle.

Working lubricator rod- built from etch scrap/leftover valve gear parts.

Sanding rods to front splashers, and representation of the filler tanks- I just used pin heads.

pipework under the valances on both sides to represent the runs to the front vacuum brake and train heating pipes on the front buffers.

LNER buffers on tender and loco- the kit is supplied with ex-NER, fine for earlier periods.

I'll certainly order another kit to build the short-smokebox version- 65033  will suit very nicely- and will do so while I still remember most of the issues I had with this build. To be honest, most were down to my ham-fistedness and the rest were clearance issues using Romford wheels- folk who used Gibsons don;t seem to have had these problems. Given that a modern kit from North Eastern models seems a long way off, I'm happy to recommend the LRM kit, but probably not for a beginner.

As an aside, the loco approaching is the Dave Alexander version, adapted to one of the locos without vacuum brakes or train heating.

[rowanj]

I'm not sure how this one will go, but "nothing ventured"....

 

The backstory is the purchase, literally for coppers, many moons ago of an A5 etched brass body, presumably from a Craftsman kit. It was a real mess, and I always intended to see what could be done to improve it, but gave it up as a bad job. Ironically, the Gibson frames I put together produced a really nice running loco, and if you squinted at it from a reasonable distance..... I re-numbered it as an A5/1 which was briefly at Saltburn, but have now replaced it with the Sonic/Rails model. 

 

So the challenge is to get the Craftsman kit to look reasonably close to the LNER A5/2 version which is more appropriate to the ex-NER, I'll get an Isinglass drawing, and have found a couple of posts listing the main differences. Some will be fairly easy, some will just have to be lived with. If anyone has actually tackled this job, I;d love to hear from them- I know interest was revived when the Sonic model came out.

 

Photos will follow.

[rowanj]

 The A5/2 will be a big job, perhaps beyond me. I got that body for, I think, £10 from a Show, with the intention of tarting it up, but it was a real mess, so I just renumbered it, after building a chassis. Now , looking at it again, I see lots of things it needs even before trying to convert it. The cab in particular is a mess, and the beading on the RH tank top is badly soldered, making it look as though the tank isnt level, which is possibly isnt. I;ve ordered an Isinglass drawing to see what needs altered for the A5/2,, and in the meantime, removed the cab roof, which always looked askew, only to find gaps filled with filler=plastic padding, I think. So I've cleaned the roof, and can now reseat it at a lower level- one of the necessary changes for an A5/2. I need the drawing to check the proper height.

The chassis is a great runner, but is missing brakes on the centre and rear wheels. There is almost no space between the drivers, but after commenting on 46256's Claughton, I'd better have a go at fitting some, There is no detail or backhead in the cab, one of my bugbears, but the rear of the motor shaft pokes in, so I need to cut that off if I'm to do anything in the cab, hopefully without damaging the running.

Like the classic Irish joke about the man asking directions - " I wouldnt start from here"

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by rowanj

[MarkC]

Hi John. You'll be correct in thinking that the brass A5 kit is/was Craftsman. I have one in the roundtuit pile, although it will need a few tweaks to become an A5/2, as we know. (I am also aware of a small dimensions mod too - bunker, iirc?).

 

Have a go - what have you got to lose?

 

Cheers

Mark

[drmditch]

I am still hoping to produce an A5/2 from a Sonic A5/1

Project rather on-hold while I emjoy some hospitality about 100m sw of the Coxlodge Waggonway.

[rowanj]

I havent given up yet, and am taking photos as I go, but I'll not post any until I;m reasonably sure there will be an A5/2 lookalike at the end of it. I'm still waiting for the Isinglass drawing, bit the different dimensions of the tanks and footplate will just have to be lived with. Mark may be able to do something with an unbuilt kit,

I have managed to lower the cab sides and front and rear spectacle plate, and re-shaped the roof profile, I need to check this when the drawing arrives, I'm going to tackle the single windows on the front spectacle plate, and have started to think about how to reshape the front frame extentions. Again, this would be easier with an unbuilt kit.

Of course, I could just get an accurate 52F kit from Peter,,,,

[rowanj]

Well, as I'm somewhat down the road with the A5/2 conversion. I'll start with a few photos. These show what I'm trying to get to, and the original state of the model I'm working on. My ongoing consolation has been that it couldnt finish up any worse than it started.

At that stage, all I had done was to release the chimney, dome and cab roof. I knew I had the replace the boiler fittings, but thought I could re-use the roof

Edited April 24, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

With the cab roof off, it looks even worse. The vacuum steam pipe needs to come off, as the A5/2's were LH drive. It was just a bent piece of wire, through a hole in the smokebox, then held by a couple of split pins.

Still is disassembly mode, the frame extensions and cylinder cover have been removed., as has the paint from the tank and bunker sides, ready to tackle the cab. The paint actually scraped off, as it did from the boiler when I got round to that. The front cylinder cover actually melted as I was unsoldering the frame exyensions- it was made from plasticard. And I thought my loco building was bad..At this point, I was ready to throw in the towel.

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

With the cab roof off, it looks even worse. The vacuum steam pipe needs to come off, as the A5/2's were LH drive. It was just a bent piece of wire, through a hole in the smokebox, then held by a couple of split pins.

Still is disassembly mode, the frame extensions and cylinder cover have been removed., as has the paint from the tank and bunker sides, ready to tackle the cab. The paint actually scraped off, as it did from the boiler when I got round to that. The front cylinder cover actually melted as I was unsoldering the frame exyensions- it was made from plasticard. And I thought my loco building was bad..At this point, I was ready to throw in the towel.

 

I wonder if it would be worth dunking the whole thing in paint remover for a day or two, so that at least you can evaluate all the problems before you invest further effort.

 

If the paint is so poorly done, and scarcely adhering, its all going to have to come off anyway before redoing. At least if you get back to metal you will be able to start with proper primer.

 

John.

Edited April 24, 2023 by John Tomlinson
typo

[rowanj]

5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

I wonder if it would be worth dunking the whole thing in paint remover for a day or two, so that at least you can evaluate all the problems before you invest further effort.

 

If the paint is so poorly done, and scarcely adhering, its all going to have to come off anyway before redoing. At least if you get back to metal you will be able to start with proper primer.

 

John.

You are right, of course, John. Actually, rather than post updates as I go, In this case I was so lacking in confidence that I could get all this to work that I just stored the photos until it looked as though I might finish up with an A2/1.8 or so.The loco has been stripped back to bare metal- the paint just peeled off and I wonder if it was ever primed. I am a fair bit further on now- a backhead and cab floor have been fitted, and once painted, I'll fit the roof. So more to come.

Edited April 24, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The beginning of the rehabilitation. A start was made on lowering and re-profiling the cab roof. This involved altering the front spectacle plates from the double window-i.e with a curve over the firebox- on the GC locos, to a single window along the line of the tanks. i was in several minds about how to do this, and did consider just cutting out a new spectacle plate.In the end, I fabricatesd a part with the correct shape window, and soldered this behind the original, thus "blanking out" the unwanted window. It leaves a thin recess, which I'll probably just hide with filler when the time comes.

[rowanj]

The LNER builds for the NE originally had the same frame extensions as the original GC locos, but ther were complaints that the shape made oiling points difficult to access., As a result, they were all modified, and this is such an obvious visual difference between the 2 sub-classes that it must be addressed unless the, model is running as originally built, So the GC frame extensions were unsoldered from the footplate and smokebox, along with the front cylinder cover. The latter was melted by the soldering iron, and turned out to be plasticard. As can be seen it all revaealed a bit of a mess, so at this point- probably a bit late in the day, I began removing all the pintwork ready for, hopefully, reassembly as an A5/2.