BR Blue Spot fish vans - a question of numbers

[Fat Controller]

I remember these SPV vans well as i collected parcels van numbers in the late 1970s having 'cleared' all the locos. We always understood that they worked almost exclusively out of Aylesbury and were worked back to there for Readers Digest traffic. They were loaded and despatched in vehicle loads for each station/depot used to receive the RD catalogues. However the routes taken outand back to Aylesbury were far from direct, they being attached to any old parcels train heading in roughly the correct direction. I suppose they went to OOC and were sent on from there. Outward traffic was obviously associated with print runs of the mags.

 

I think they were sometimes 'borrowed' and used for other parcels traffic, but basically their small capacity was ideal for RD and it was their only reason for remaining in service.

 

Tony

They were used for more than 'Reader's Digest' traffic; there weren't enough dentist's waiting rooms in the UK for the number of mags they could carry. The press at Aylesbury used to deal with other periodicals, such as 'Radio Times', as well as the supplements for the weekend papers. They also printed catalogues for the mail-order companies, which were big business pre-Internet. The number of wagons seen in formations from the West Country would suggest something other than pure periodical traffic; possibly perishable loads, as the insulation was retained on these vans. They were common around Bristol in the early/mid 1970s as well, possibly for tobacco traffic, as the doors were easier to secure than those of most vans.

[Rail-Online]

They were used for more than 'Reader's Digest' traffic; there weren't enough dentist's waiting rooms in the UK for the number of mags they could carry. The press at Aylesbury used to deal with other periodicals, such as 'Radio Times', as well as the supplements for the weekend papers. They also printed catalogues for the mail-order companies, which were big business pre-Internet. The number of wagons seen in formations from the West Country would suggest something other than pure periodical traffic; possibly perishable loads, as the insulation was retained on these vans. They were common around Bristol in the early/mid 1970s as well, possibly for tobacco traffic, as the doors were easier to secure than those of most vans.

Yes that makes sense. The weekly Radio Times was huge in the 1970s and the Catalogue Cos like Littlewoods would be big customers but unlike the Radio Times there were only usually 2-4 issues per annum.

 

When I saw those pics of the South West I thought there must be some specialised use of them in the west.

 

Tony

 

Tony

[Andy Kirkham]

They were used for more than 'Reader's Digest' traffic; there weren't enough dentist's waiting rooms in the UK for the number of mags they could carry. The press at Aylesbury used to deal with other periodicals, such as 'Radio Times', as well as the supplements for the weekend papers. They also printed catalogues for the mail-order companies, which were big business pre-Internet. The number of wagons seen in formations from the West Country would suggest something other than pure periodical traffic; possibly perishable loads, as the insulation was retained on these vans. They were common around Bristol in the early/mid 1970s as well, possibly for tobacco traffic, as the doors were easier to secure than those of most vans.

I  remember from my spotting days at Temple Meads in the 1970s, seeing reference to the "Observer Traffic" - chalked on vans etc. Presumably the colour supplement of the Sunday paper which seems to have been distributed during the week prior to the publication date. 

 

I can't remember whether it was the SPV vans that were used for this traffic.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Andy Kirkham

[AberdeenBill]

Fascinating stuff...  Maybe this explains their telegraphic code of Special Parcels Van (i.e.: not for general use and to be returned empty to Aylesbury).

 

Bill 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Re the WR use of these vans.

As they were better insulated and a larger volume than standard vans, might they have been in seasonal use for fruit and veg traffic where extra tare weight is of no real consequence? The photo at Cockwood is taken in the summer.

 

Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

I have more than a suspicion that the late 1960s pictures of these vans in the West Country show them in freight use (for NCL traffic) rather than anything else - especially as in some cases they are clearly formed in freight trains rather than parcels trains.  My involvement in WR parcels traffic was c.1969 and we didn't have any vans that small in scheduled WR parcels working (N.B Aylesbury traffic by then was LMR of course) and certainly the number of vans seen in the Cockwood picture, plus the one at Drump Lane are far more indicative of freight working than parcels working.

 

My presumption is - apart from those I can definitely remember seeing - that the vans had been put into the various working which were devised in a bid to retain NCL trunk flows.

[jonny777]

They were used for more than 'Reader's Digest' traffic; there weren't enough dentist's waiting rooms in the UK for the number of mags they could carry. The press at Aylesbury used to deal with other periodicals, such as 'Radio Times', as well as the supplements for the weekend papers. They also printed catalogues for the mail-order companies, which were big business pre-Internet. The number of wagons seen in formations from the West Country would suggest something other than pure periodical traffic; possibly perishable loads, as the insulation was retained on these vans. They were common around Bristol in the early/mid 1970s as well, possibly for tobacco traffic, as the doors were easier to secure than those of most vans.

 

 

There was also a big LP pressing plant somewhere near there (Aylesbury), because a few of my workmates had part time jobs there between runs of shifts in the 1970s in order to pay the exhorbitant rents charged for flats in that region, or save for a mortgage.

 

I couldn't be a*sed with all that and just married a rich girl. 

[stovepipe]

See here for a link to the photos of these wagons by trotskeetravel. This one is a 1/801, and proves that just occasionally they weren't filthy dirty.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35mm-Slide-BR-British-Rail-12T-INSULVAN-NRV-Wagon-M87917-Hemel-Hempstead-1981-/371501130182?hash=item567f3161c6%3Ag%3AubUAAOSwHQ9WYdHn&nma=true&si=S%252BRUq%252BGRBSHyd%252BnjVCHkrg304g0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Fat Controller]

On a related topic, am I correct in remembering that Hemel Hempstead had a separate parcels platform, with a prominent 'Rail Express Parcels' sign on it?

[HGT1972]

I suspect the Cornish examples were mainly, if not all, in NCL traffic. An RCTS note states that 33 were branded 'NCL Company Train - Return to Paddington' by 1972, all with W prefixes. I've never seen a picture of the brand, possibly it was just on a small Darvic plate or similar? This seems to have continued for a good few years and certainly ties in with The Stationmaster's recollections.

 

Hywel

[stovepipe]

A couple more...

[/url]D1060 Western Dominion St Budeaux June 69 by Chris England, on Flickr">http://D1060 Western Dominion St Budeaux June 69 by Chris England, on Flickr

 

[/url]D1008 Western Harrier St Budeaux Ferry Road 22nd June 1969 by Chris England, on Flickr">http://D1008 Western Harrier St Budeaux Ferry Road 22nd June 1969 by Chris England, on Flickr

 

 

I've identified this working now - 6C59 14.05 Ponsandane - Tavistock Jct Sundries. It's listed as a company block load, running Mon-Fri. It spent 30 minutes at Drump Lane, and 90 minutes at St Austell for traffic purposes, arriving at Tavistock Jct at 18.28.

 

At Tavistock Jct the 6A29 18.25 Plymouth Friary - Paddington Sundries, also a company train, stopped by between 18.40 and 19.10, and then spending time at Exeter and Taunton before heading to Bristol.

 

The return workings appear to be 6C31 20:05 Paddington - Tavistock Jct Sundries and 6C32 03:05 Tavistock Jct - Drump Lane MO, Ponsandane MX.

 

Given the workings are described as both company workings and sundries, I think this confirms they were running in the NCL network. Certainly Drump Lane was an NCL depot.

APR 74 17. An unidentified Class 52 on an empty ballast train at Drump Lane near Redruth, April 17 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

[stovepipe]

And here's an SPV at St Austell, quite late on for WR use.

 

Vintage St Austell 1041 by Stephen Burdett, on Flickr

[Max Legroom]

I've often read that BR fish traffic ceased at the end of the 1960s and this certainly seems to be the case for the Aberdeen and West Highland flows, but I've seen plenty of photos from the 1970s showing fish vans marshalled between the loco and passenger coaches on the Kyle, Far North and Highland Mainline. Were these vans carrying fish and where were they heading? They were universally filthy by this stage! I'd be interested to know the details if anyone can help.

[rodent279]

On a related topic, am I correct in remembering that Hemel Hempstead had a separate parcels platform, with a prominent 'Rail Express Parcels' sign on it?

You are correct. It was on the up side about 100m south of the main station, and was in regular use until the late 80's. There was usually an NPV/GUV or two stabled there most days.

[Fat Controller]

I've often read that BR fish traffic ceased at the end of the 1960s and this certainly seems to be the case for the Aberdeen and West Highland flows, but I've seen plenty of photos from the 1970s showing fish vans marshalled between the loco and passenger coaches on the Kyle, Far North and Highland Mainline. Were these vans carrying fish and where were they heading? They were universally filthy by this stage! I'd be interested to know the details if anyone can help.

Whilst the express fish trains to London from Aberdeen may have ceased, there was still fish traffic from Milford Haven, conveyed as part of a dedicated 'perishables' train, into the 1970s. I remember the smell! Larkin has photos of Insulfishes at Milford as late as 1975, and at Danygraig wagon works, Swansea, in October 1976.

In Scotland, there was traffic from various ports as far as Aberdeen into the 1980s; not sure what happened to the fish once it reached there.

[mark54]

6E47 the 13:46 Fish from Aberdeen to Kings Cross Goods and 6S64 return empties at 14:30 to Millerhill were withdrawn on 05/01/1976 according to Supplement No.4 to the May 1975 ECML WTT

[Max Legroom]

Whilst the express fish trains to London from Aberdeen may have ceased, there was still fish traffic from Milford Haven, conveyed as part of a dedicated 'perishables' train, into the 1970s. I remember the smell! Larkin has photos of Insulfishes at Milford as late as 1975, and at Danygraig wagon works, Swansea, in October 1976.

In Scotland, there was traffic from various ports as far as Aberdeen into the 1980s; not sure what happened to the fish once it reached there.

This is a good excuse to run a fish van or two if you model north or east Scotland in the 1970s or even early 1980s. Heavily weathered of course!

[08221]

On a related topic, am I correct in remembering that Hemel Hempstead had a separate parcels platform, with a prominent 'Rail Express Parcels' sign on it?[/q

On a related topic, am I correct in remembering that Hemel Hempstead had a separate parcels platform, with a prominent 'Rail Express Parcels' sign on it?

 

I remember the parcels platform well, usually had a couple of vans in there collected by a class 25 early evening.

 

Does anyone have any photos of it please - want to model it on my new layout

[The Johnster]

Whilst the express fish trains to London from Aberdeen may have ceased, there was still fish traffic from Milford Haven, conveyed as part of a dedicated 'perishables' train, into the 1970s. I remember the smell! Larkin has photos of Insulfishes at Milford as late as 1975, and at Danygraig wagon works, Swansea, in October 1976.

In Scotland, there was traffic from various ports as far as Aberdeen into the 1980s; not sure what happened to the fish once it reached there.

 

IIRC this train, which shunted at Canton sidings about 19.30 in the evening and changed locos, was still running when I finished on the railway in late 77.  It was a class 6 and carried 60mph rated insulfish vans amongst other 4 wheeled NPCCS.  It stank, and the guard rode in the back cab of the loco at this time.  

[johnb]

ame="Fat Controller" post="2143660" timestamp="1451383422"]On a related topic, am I correct in remembering that Hemel Hempstead had a separate parcels platform, with a prominent 'Rail Express Parcels' sign on it?[/q

 

I remember the parcels platform well, usually had a couple of vans in there collected by a class 25 early evening.

 

Does anyone have any photos of it please - want to model it on my new layout

 

No photos unfortunately, but when I regularly travelled through Hemel there was only the one van, a BG usually the same one in blue and with a number like 81887. We're going back 30++ years so don't quote me on that number!!!!!!!! . It was collected in that time by a Class 86 electric, that front road was wired and there were a couple of other unwired sidings as well usually used by the P'way. At the end of the tiny yard there was a double slip which routed to the main line or the headshunt one way and to the sidings the other. One evening as I came past the Cl86 was on the unwired back road just by the slip. There were three or four chaps standing there just looking at it with 'Oh *****!' expressions.

I also heard rumour that one evening a Cl87 turned up and had to be sent away as the van was vacuum braked only!

 

John

[rodent279]

No photos unfortunately, but when I regularly travelled through Hemel there was only the one van, a BG usually the same one in blue and with a number like 81887. We're going back 30++ years so don't quote me on that number!!!!!!!! . It was collected in that time by a Class 86 electric, that front road was wired and there were a couple of other unwired sidings as well usually used by the P'way. At the end of the tiny yard there was a double slip which routed to the main line or the headshunt one way and to the sidings the other. One evening as I came past the Cl86 was on the unwired back road just by the slip. There were three or four chaps standing there just looking at it with 'Oh *****!' expressions.

I also heard rumour that one evening a Cl87 turned up and had to be sent away as the van was vacuum braked only!

 

John

Yeah, I'd concur with the above. It was usually an AC electric turn, occasionally a 25/31, but more often than not a, AC electric of classes 81-86. 87's, as above, being AB, would not be suitable.

[Southernman46]

 Presumably the colour supplement of the Sunday paper which seems to have been distributed during the week prior to the publication date. 

Yes and as a Paperlad having to put them into the papers on a Sunday AM was a right pain in the bum

[mabel]

On 24/12/2015 at 12:08, stovepipe said:

Another SW photo here, first in 1/801, second is 1/800. They crop up at Bristol quite often in this period. Did Frys dispatch their goods by rail I wonder?

While I was waiting by Stephen Dowle, on Flickr

Resurrecting an old thread…… can anyone tell me what colour the vans in general freight use were? I have seen a few b&w pictures of them without Express parcels branding, and without tops code, just their running number. I cant tell if they were rail blue, ice blue, filthy white, or freight brown/bauxite. Also, can anyone point me in the direction of National Carriers branded (or labeled) vans? I know there was a pool of them, but internet searches have turned up nothing.

Thanks, 

Tony

[mabel]

Deleted duplicate entry…

Edited July 14, 2023 by mabel
Duplicate entry

[bécasse]

Surely the vital clue is the lettering. If they were still ice-blue, dirty or not, the lettering would have been black, not white as it obviously is. They appear to me to be brown (of which there were a variety of shades - look at any colour picture of a train of fitted vans of the era) but if they were rail-blue the font used for the lettering was different and this is usually obvious.