Family 8x4 OO layout - Trains running again.

[Jaggzuk]

With the four sets of magnets on the running lines within the station area, I have to remember not to stop a freight train such that I accidentally uncoupled it into two parts. They are required there for shunting operations and loco run rounds.

 

I would certainly plan a layout differently next time to allow for Kadee operation and wagon length and clearances. As it is, what I have works and shunting is so much more fun now and enjoyable.

[Jaggzuk]

I have been having a trail play with Keen Close Coupling System for a rake of 4 Bachmann/Mainline Collett coaches.  I have had these a long time but had removed the tension hook couplings, so I need to add some new couplings to get them running again.

 

Details of the installation can be found here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45608-self-centering-keen-systems-close-coupling-units/?p=2890913

 

Close coupled after Keen kit installation

 

 

The coupling gap opens up on an R2 curve.

 

I like these couplings and will add them to other rakes of old tension hook coupled coaches.

[Jaggzuk]

Have been getting some pressure of late to finish the scenic aspects of the layout, ha ha, rather than spending so much time fiddling about with couplings and other things of that nature.  So I have reacquainted myself with why I sort of stopped progressing with ballasting.

 

I am happy with how I am going to do the ballasting, materials, how to pre weather colour and how to fix.  I am also happy with how I am going to create my wild grass lineside areas; using hanging basket liner and static grass.  However, it is the bit in between these two areas that stopped me in my track, cable trough.

 

My job takes me out working on the railway sometimes, so I get to see how the “real” railway looks at close hand.  One thing I have noticed quite often is that cable troughing can be a very distinctive divider between the ballast and the grass areas.

 

As can be seen in these photos, the cable trough is set within the ballast shoulder and clearly separates the grass lineside area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Weathering needs to be a very mottled effect to represent aged concrete.

 

 

In modelling terms this means that the cable trough has to be glued in place first, before the ballasting operation.  This therefore means that both the routing and size of troughing need to be decided before any ballast or grass is laid.  So I am on with this plan now.

 

I also recently bought some readymade cable troughing samples from two well know manufactures (Wills and 10 Commandments) prior to then buying in bulk.  However, I was rather disappointed with the offerings, as they just do not look right when placed next to track.

 

First the 10 Commandments kit.  It looked a good kit on-line with Ts and corner pieces and the kit offered 4 feet of toughing.  But the real life dimensions are just not right.  First the lid representations are only 600 long (in real life they are 1000m) and the width equates to only 205mm, which is between a C.1.6 and a C.1.7 (typical real life size I have come across are C.1.7 or C.1.9).  The nice aspect of this kit however, is that the plastic is quite bendable, so easy to bend the round track radii.

 

Next was the Wills kit.  Again this looked good with plug in type connections and comes with nice T pieces.  The lids are spot on 1000mm long but they have a big un-prototypical overhanging lids  making them 380mm wide.  The narrower trough part is still 300mm wide, so this is a well over sized for even a C.1.10, which is too big for countryside troughing.  The plastic is quiet rigid and so very difficult to bend.

 

So neither of these met with my approval, am I being too picky?  So I have resorted to a DIY version using Plastruct sections.  The best I could get was some 2.5x3.2 solid and 2.3x3.2 channel.  This is a good represents of a C.1.8, which is a happy medium.

 

My DIY version top, 10 Commandants middle and Wills bottom

 

I make the lids by pushing a craft knife in to the plastic and then sanding off the ridges.  I used Vallejo ModelAir paints.  The base colour was hand brushed on and the weathering dry brushed or finger rubbed in.  The lid joints were picked out in black and rubbed in by brush.

 

Finished samples on my test track board

 

My DIY version top, 10 Commandants middle and Wills bottom

 

 

I used the 3 channel sections (two inverted either side) to represent a trough with either a missing or displaced lid and added some thin black wire for cables.

 

 

The underside view showing how the black wire is fixed into the inverted sections.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[5BarVT]

Your version definitely looks most realistic. Like it.

Paul.

[fishytrains]

This is something I need to do, always good to learn from others experiences! I must admit, I do prefer the look of your DIY version more than the other two.

 

Mike

[Revolution Mike B]

Have been getting some pressure of late to finish the scenic aspects of the layout, ha ha, rather than spending so much time fiddling about with couplings and other things of that nature.  So I have reacquainted myself with why I sort of stopped progressing with ballasting.

 

I am happy with how I am going to do the ballasting, materials, how to pre weather colour and how to fix.  I am also happy with how I am going to create my wild grass lineside areas; using hanging basket liner and static grass.  However, it is the bit in between these two areas that stopped me in my track, cable trough.

 

My job takes me out working on the railway sometimes, so I get to see how the “real” railway looks at close hand.  One thing I have noticed quite often is that cable troughing can be a very distinctive divider between the ballast and the grass areas.

 

As can be seen in these photos, the cable trough is set within the ballast shoulder and clearly separates the grass lineside area.

 

P1150238.JPG

 

P1150258.JPG

 

P1150240.JPG

Weathering needs to be a very mottled effect to represent aged concrete.

 

 

In modelling terms this means that the cable trough has to be glued in place first, before the ballasting operation.  This therefore means that both the routing and size of troughing need to be decided before any ballast or grass is laid.  So I am on with this plan now.

 

I also recently bought some readymade cable troughing samples from two well know manufactures (Wills and 10 Commandments) prior to then buying in bulk.  However, I was rather disappointed with the offerings, as they just do not look right when placed next to track.

 

First the 10 Commandments kit.  It looked a good kit on-line with Ts and corner pieces and the kit offered 4 feet of toughing.  But the real life dimensions are just not right.  First the lid representations are only 600 long (in real life they are 1000m) and the width equates to only 205mm, which is between a C.1.6 and a C.1.7 (typical real life size I have come across are C.1.7 or C.1.9).  The nice aspect of this kit however, is that the plastic is quite bendable, so easy to bend the round track radii.

 

Next was the Wills kit.  Again this looked good with plug in type connections and comes with nice T pieces.  The lids are spot on 1000mm long but they have a big un-prototypical overhanging lids  making them 380mm wide.  The narrower trough part is still 300mm wide, so this is a well over sized for even a C.1.10, which is too big for countryside troughing.  The plastic is quiet rigid and so very difficult to bend.

 

So neither of these met with my approval, am I being too picky?  So I have resorted to a DIY version using Plastruct sections.  The best I could get was some 2.5x3.2 solid and 2.3x3.2 channel.  This is a good represents of a C.1.8, which is a happy medium.

 

IMGP0049.JPG

My DIY version top, 10 Commandants middle and Wills bottom

 

I make the lids by pushing a craft knife in to the plastic and then sanding off the ridges.  I used Vallejo ModelAir paints.  The base colour was hand brushed on and the weathering dry brushed or finger rubbed in.  The lid joints were picked out in black and rubbed in by brush.

 

Finished samples on my test track board

 

IMGP0050a.jpg

My DIY version top, 10 Commandants middle and Wills bottom

 

 

I used the 3 channel sections (two inverted either side) to represent a trough with either a missing or displaced lid and added some thin black wire for cables.

 

IMGP0055.JPG

 

IMGP0056.JPG

The underside view showing how the black wire is fixed into the inverted sections.

 

Top notch and looks really good! 

 

Mike

[Fluo66]

Your scratch built cable trunks are much more realistic and much cheaper! Great work again. I like also the close couplings.

[Jaggzuk]

Not trying to find and excuse to put off scenics, but I am considering some civil engineering during the 2 week Christmas Blockage.

 

The layout was always designed to be extended into a fiddle yard, with the off board spurs already being located inside the two tunnels.  But time has now come I think to seriously consider this development.  There are three motivations for this,

1. We have so much stock now that the main 8x4 board keeps getting clogged up as the boys play, getting everything out of its boxes.  This detracts for the scenic aspect and also stuff is getting damage being in and out of storage boxes so much.
2. we need more on baseboard storage for long train formations.
3. Whilst I am very happy with the layout, there is a limitation as to where trains can pass each other.  Currently only in the station with one train on the outer loop and the other on the flyover loop.  I have always wanted a little more double track passing opportunity.

So implementing the fiddle yard offers an opportunity to tweak the 8x4.  By adding about 2 inches to the right hand side (with the station at the bottom of the plan) I can add another outer curve to create a 1/4 turn of double track going into the tunnel.  This in effect creates a new outer loop which goes into the fiddle yard.

 

With this the running opportunity would now be: 1 train on the new outer loop running clockwise passing through a through road in the fiddle yard, with a second train running anti-clockwise.  The second train would use the double loop on the main board from the middle track at the station going out to the right hand tunnel, passing under the flyover to then go through the station on the inner track before going back out over then flyover and back to the station.

 

The new track on the 8x4 is purple, the red box will be some form of lift/swing section and the hole in the middle is 2 foot wide operators well for the fiddle yard.  The fiddle yard will be non scenic as it is under the slope the roof so has little head room.

 

The sidings in the fiddle yard are faced so they can feed goods traffic to either yard.

 

[Chris64B]

Looks like a great idea! Might that new crossover in the tunnel (light purple bit on the right) be difficult to get to if there's a derailment or anything? Will you be able to reach in and access it from the side?

 

I'd love to add a big fiddle yard like that to mine but just haven't got the space in the garage - well not without turfing out the Mini which isn't going to happen!

 

Cheers, Chris

[Jaggzuk]

Valid point Chris, the tunnel currently is just a triangle of MDF which is easily lifted off and I will keep it that way when it has the town scene on it.

 

Space will be a bit cramped on the fiddle side but not too bad.

 

And rightly so on the Mini front. Mistreat a mini and they will bite you back. Our Mini Neon always draws blood from me when I used to open "her" bonnet. But she had been garaged for 9 odd years now and looks a bit sorry for herself!

 

Mind you my youngest at 4 has declared he wants a green Landie for his first car!

[Jaggzuk]

Foxwood Park - Further capacity improvements planned.

 

The weekend has seen a lot of activity in the railway room, mostly playing trains, but some further capacity improvements have now been planned.  Along with the addition of the planned fiddle yard/avoidance loops during the forthcoming a Christmas blockage, the MPD/rolling stock management team have request some additional depot capacity. The current offering of a single road depot just does not meet the current growth in traffic that Foxwood Park is now seeing.

 

Following the very kind delivery of some old Superquick kits from Rogerv (of this parish), including the Station Terminus, Signal Box and Double Road Engine Shed kits. I started to look at how they could be incorporated in to the layout.  Our current engine shed is only a single road and so I was either going to have to kit bash or have it look like a depot road had been removed during a historically rationalisation of the track layout.  But then it dawned on me as I looked along the layout, that a very simple addition of one point and a bit of track could give us a double road shed with a long approach line, thus providing 3-4 loco stabling capacity.

 

The whole motivation of the fiddle yard is to allow stock to stay on the rails and reduce damage and stock being pilled up on the main layout.  The same goes for locos.  The addition of a 2nd engine shed road will allow much more safe on-layout storage of most of the locos being used by the boys.

 

So the plan is to add reverse Settrack turnout to the left-hand siding and run a track back parallel to the depot location.  This obviously will mean that when the goods shed line is fully used that a loco cannot come off that road, but that will be part of the operation fun.  The new depot road will also allow a refueling point scene to be added, which will be nice.  The new turnout will not need a new point lever switch as it can run in tandem with the current siding entry turnout.

 

The orange track is the new depot road addition.

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the poor quality of the plans, but as my version of SCARM has been locked due to now being Payware,  I cannot edit my original plan because it is well over the 100 pieces offered in Freeware mode.  I cannot really justify, at the moment, paying for a license just for a few edits considering I have pretty much competed my layout planning phase.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Jaggzuk

[Jaggzuk]

Getting my ideas together on the look and feel for the MPD/engine shed. 

 

There are so may good examples on RMWeb but one thing that has attracted me is inspection pits, see last photo http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/11755-blog-coachmanns-carriage-blog-railway-buildings/.  I then found this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100817-peco-inspection-pit-lighting/ .  I think I will go for the Peco option and add some LED lights.

 

As part of my motivation for building the 8x4 layout was to learn new modeling techniques.  So extending the MPD this will allow me to try out making a concrete hard-standing with embedded rails.

 

Looking at the Rowsley shed example, I like how the Sand drying building is next to the engine shed, which is pretty much what I had originally planned.  But now with the new track I can add next tot he sand building a simple fuel point with the concrete hard-standing extending from the shed.

 

Hopefully the view from the station will look very good, the sort of view I remember from my early days trainspotting and being at the end of a platform, trying to see locos in the shed..

[Alister_G]

Funnily enough, at the real Rowsley shed, the nasty diseasels weren't allowed to enter the main shed, and were banished off into a corner of their own at the other end of the yard, with their own refuelling point.

 

Al

[Jaggzuk]

Sounds like an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine.

[Chris64B]

Sounds good - for what it's worth I used the Black Cat inspection pit lighting kits mentioned in that thread. I was pleased with them, they are a bit more money than DIY but have that neat variable resistor built in and fitted the Scalescenes inspection pit perfectly.

 

How are you thinking of doing the concrete hardstanding? In my yard I used the Wills Cement Rendering sheets - they've got a nice subtle texture and are the right-ish colour to start with so didn't need painting, and took the weathering easily. They were easy to cut too, and a lot simpler/tidier than trying to do it with filler or something. Having them in separate sections also looked quite realistic, representing the different poured slabs/expansion joints:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2017/post-27854-0-28518600-1497003787.jpg

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2017/post-27854-0-58381900-1497003790.jpg

 

Cheers, Chris

[Jaggzuk]

Thats a very nice MPD there Chris. I am in two minds on the kightwing fuel kit or scratch build. My fuel point will only be one sided due to limited space between the two roads. But then this got me thinking, can diesel loco be fueled from either side? Do they have a fule cap on both sides.

I like the card/plastic sheet option for the concrete, a lot less messy than filler.  Just curious what size did you make your slabs between the joints, that is, what "real life" size?

A question on the Scalescenes inspection pits, what holds the track in place over the pits where there are no sleepers? The Peco version has real chassis.

I started the shed build last night, which was a nice feeling getting back in to building rather than rolling stock mods.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Jaggzuk

[Jaggzuk]

Starting with the retaining wall along the lower part of the MPD, a Metcalfe kit bash creation, (photo to coming soon).  This separates the lower goods yard and the upper station area.  One element I intend to add is a road ramp from the lower area up to the upper goods area.  I want to use the Wills Tapered Retaining Wall kit PO248 https://www.metcalfemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/PO248.jpg  but I am struggling to find a real life example of such an urban road ramp around a station for inspiration.

 

I have a vague memory of seeing something like it in an old B&W photo or a BTF video. my my web search has drawn a blank.  So I anyone know of an example they can share it would be much appreciated.

 

The only two I have found so far but not that quite right are, Manchester central stationare https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_de_Manchester_Central#/media/File:Manchester_Central_Station_7.jpg  and Leeds Great Central station https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/d9/38/8ad93891a86da625ea382f5ceeb0ab33.jpg

 

[5BarVT]

Mayfield station beside Manchester Piccadilly had such a ramp. There are photos on the disused stations website showing the ramp itself, but I haven't found one yet of the retaining wall supporting it. The Metcalfe kit looks suitable from the views that are available.

Paul.

[andi4x4]

Jump on Google Earth and take a look at Sutton Coldfield station in the west midlands.  It has an interesting history, being ex-LNWR and the track layout there has changed dramatically over the years.  It has an "overhead" (of sorts) station building with a road way that runs down from the upper level where the station building is, around the outside of the former goods yard (now carpark) down to track level, then continues past and down further to a road under bridge. The topography alone would make it an interesting build, however, for operational interest as a layout, you would need to either combine the former LNWR terminus station and goods facilities and current through-track formations, or just model the the LNWR terminus as it was.

[nicolasgreenin]

Hi Paul,

 

Sound like you will be busy over the next few weeks the layout is looking great and your work on your rolling stock. I am also planning on fitting magnets to uncouple let me know your thoughts on positioning?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

[Jaggzuk]

Christmas block all dependant upon my late order of track and points being delivered!!!  Bad planning on my part.  Just finalising the track plan and sorting the timber ready for the build effort with the boys, my two little Kirow Cranes.

[Jaggzuk]

Hi Nick

 

The key thing I learnt about my placing of the magnet locations was that they cannot be too close to a curve.  The Kadee only work whens the rolling stock is in a straight line..  Ok this sounds obvious, but even placing the magnets on straight track after a curve can still be too close, as any wagon or coach will still over hang until the rear approaches the the straight.  The knuckle of the coupling must be over the centre line of the straight track to work.

 

I work to about 70-80mm from the point where the straight track ends and the curve starts and this was still tight.

 

The other thing to consider is how much delayed coupling you want to do in sidings.

 

Hope this helps.  If you want I can post a plan with the magnet locations

[Jaggzuk]

So here is the finished plan for the fiddle yard, all the bits in orange. It also shows the new engine shed sidings and the added double track bottom right, which is part of the fiddle yard capacity improvement. What this adds is the ability to run two trains in opposite directions, one using the fiddle yard and out main loop the other using the existing double inner loops.
 

And here are a few shots of the engine maintenance depot modifications. The Engine Shed kit was kindly sent to me by RogerV, which was then inspiration for adding the extra shed road. So now we have a twin track shed, refuelling area and the depot can store 5 locos at a push. The refueling area is just a mock-up at present, not too sure whether to scratch build or buy the Knightwing kit?

 

 

The whole area changed for the better and is very much more urban and industrial now. This then lead me on to how to access the goods yard from the lower area, hence the ideas on a retaining wall access ramp. The mock-up can just be seen in the photos.

Lots of things on the boil.....

Edited September 7, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[Jaggzuk]

Christmas Engineering Blockade - Update

Good progress has been made on the layout upgrade, both on th fiddel ayrd sid and the new track capcaisy.

Two out of the three baseboard frames have been made. The angled hinged/lift out section has yet to be done - lined out with string, still not quite sure how that one will work. I have cut the MDF tops for the main section (not yet added), so quite happy so far.
 

Fiddle yard

 

Track alignment

The addition of the new track on the layout has started. The main civils work has been done to get the trackbed formation ready and the trackwork lay has started. The new curved turnout is in and part of the concrete track laid. This biggest headache was the fact that the point motor was right above a main part of the baseboard frame and was right on the edge. So I had to cut a big chunk out, but is was not part of the structural frame so that was good.
 

The before shot
 

Aerial view before works started

 

 

New trackwork started

The next stage will be more track heading to what will now be a double track tunnel portal with new approach retaining wall, where the grass land form used to be.

Hopefully part two of my two parcel delivery will come today, it got split up on its first delivery attempt to the house just before Christmas - 8 yards of track!!

Edited September 7, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[LongRail]

If you are planning to hinge the section the hinges will need to mounted above the board so that the track on the hinged section moves up and away from the fixed sections of track