Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[Mol_PMB]

I hope that Christleton will also have a pub as good as the Great Western nearby?

[5BarVT]

Passed through Christleton Jn this morning, can’t have been concentrating properly as I missed all the point work.

 

Like the background in your picture, though like Christleton, photos of Heath Town never seem to come out with the proper detail!!!

:-)

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, 61656 said:

Wolverhampton

 

10 hours ago, 61656 said:

depressing

Say no more...

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Say no more...

Oi!  Some of us lived there for a while.

Mind you, they had cleared the ground but not built the depressing 60s concrete that is there now.

Paul.

[61656]

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I hope that Christleton will also have a pub as good as the Great Western nearby?

I do think a site visit is in order, hopefully with my wingman for a couple of pints. They will have to work exceptionally hard to equal the quality of ale served when operating the model. 

[61656]

19 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Passed through Christleton Jn this morning, can’t have been concentrating properly as I missed all the point work.

 

Like the background in your picture, though like Christleton, photos of Heath Town never seem to come out with the proper detail!!!

:-)

Paul.

Since they put in the Warrington to Chester curve it is a mere shadow of its former self…

[61656]

With a free evening I had a long list of jobs to get ticked off, which I started by running a couple of trains out of the way and I didn’t put the controller down for 3 hours!

 

So instead of the anticipated progress report, a few shots of the impromptu running session. Most of these show views that I’m hoping will improve over the next few months, together with some rolling stock I might have a little look at. It’s been a while since I renumbered anything or got the weathering tackle out. 

 

We start with a class 45 on the ‘new’ Warrington curve. This should get ballasted in the not too distant future, together with a wall to the right. I have a vision of Milnsbridge on the trans-Pennine route here. The 45 is also due a works visit for ETH fitting. The coaches would benefit from some attention too - and I have a sneaky feeling that the BG should be next to first class?
 

 

Then a Crewe to Llandudno midday service sees Intercity liveried 47612 get the power down out of the station. Both this and large logo sibling 47436 need some weathering once I settle on final numbers. 
 

 

A 25 joins the large logo duff for fuel. Some fuel lines are on the list. I’m also planning to upgrade the concrete apron having seen Mallaig’s efforts with polyfila. 
 

 

Having fuelled up, the rat has dropped onto a ballast train from Penmaenmawr. The hole in the sky behind the 47 needs fixing. 
 

 

One of my current favourites is the choppers on tanks. Only 3 of 11 tanks are weathered so far… plus I could probably extend the rake to 14. There’s a hole to the right of this picture where the road goes under the railway. One day…
 

 

Having run round, the 20’s get the tanks rolling East. The first tank is a Fina in 60’s livery. I may strip this back and heavily weather it, or ‘swap’ it for a newer one. 
 

 

And finally, another 47 needing attention, as well as a container rake that needs back dating. 
 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by 61656
Duplicate photos

[BenW]

On 18/03/2022 at 11:43, 61656 said:

I do think a site visit is in order, hopefully with my wingman for a couple of pints. They will have to work exceptionally hard to equal the quality of ale served when operating the model. 

I’ve driven past the pub there a couple of times - certainly looks posh enough to provide high quality!

 

Operating session photos look great, but I must have those ballast wagons off you for finishing!

[Mol_PMB]

At the Great Western, my first choice would be the Batham's, but if that's not on then any of the Holden's brews are great too.

The hot pork and stuffing baps are legendary.

I'm drooling just at the thought of one!

[61656]

It’s been a long time since my last post - even longer than the couple of weeks that I thought it was! Modelling was interrupted for a very agreeable two weeks in the alps, followed by some very distracting work on the house. The latter is likely to distract me for a few weeks more before I can devote much time to Christleton. 
 

At the end of March, a new peak came to join the fleet. I’d put off getting another one until I’d seen the new Heljan version. Having looked at the photos I decided to stick with the Bachmann variety, so 45022 is the new arrival. It’s seen here alongside a pair of 45048s…
 

 

This now means that a couple of 45/1 conversions are making their way up my to do list. One of the 45048s already has a 45/1 chassis, so that’s an obvious choice to go first. 45110 was my 45/1 of choice, but it had the orange cantrail lining by 86, which I don’t fancy doing. 
 

45022 had been withdrawn by 86, but a small application of rule 1 will be applied.

 

Another new arrival is this very nice BBA steel wagon from Cavalex; just another 7 required! It certainly looks the part behind the class 20s. 
 

 

Whilst not getting time to do much actual modelling, I am planning my next steps. The Holyhead fiddle yard needs it points motorising before I progress the scenic break any further, so I’m giving thought to a route setting panel for that section. It seems a simpler place to start than the main layout. 
 

I’m also looking at the platforms, having managed a couple of trips to Wolverhampton, which I’m find an increasing source of inspiration (who’d’ve thought anyone would ever say that?). I think a mixture of brickwork and the Peco concrete fascias will give a much more pleasing result than my first effort. Looking at a real prototype shows just how much a platform varies along its length!

 

Here’s a few pictures along platform 2…

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, 61656 said:

It’s been a long time since my last post - even longer than the couple of weeks that I thought it was! Modelling was interrupted for a very agreeable two weeks in the alps, followed by some very distracting work on the house. The latter is likely to distract me for a few weeks more before I can devote much time to Christleton. 
 

At the end of March, a new peak came to join the fleet. I’d put off getting another one until I’d seen the new Heljan version. Having looked at the photos I decided to stick with the Bachmann variety, so 45022 is the new arrival. It’s seen here alongside a pair of 45048s…
 

 

This now means that a couple of 45/1 conversions are making their way up my to do list. One of the 45048s already has a 45/1 chassis, so that’s an obvious choice to go first. 45110 was my 45/1 of choice, but it had the orange cantrail lining by 86, which I don’t fancy doing. 
 

45022 had been withdrawn by 86, but a small application of rule 1 will be applied.

 

Another new arrival is this very nice BBA steel wagon from Cavalex; just another 7 required! It certainly looks the part behind the class 20s. 
 

 

Whilst not getting time to do much actual modelling, I am planning my next steps. The Holyhead fiddle yard needs it points motorising before I progress the scenic break any further, so I’m giving thought to a route setting panel for that section. It seems a simpler place to start than the main layout. 
 

I’m also looking at the platforms, having managed a couple of trips to Wolverhampton, which I’m find an increasing source of inspiration (who’d’ve thought anyone would ever say that?). I think a mixture of brickwork and the Peco concrete fascias will give a much more pleasing result than my first effort. Looking at a real prototype shows just how much a platform varies along its length!

 

Here’s a few pictures along platform 2…

 

 

 

 

 

I like the Peco platform edging mouldings. I plan to use them on my layout with embossed styrene brick or stone facings.

[61656]

After a lot of blood, sweat and beers, the current domestic back breaker is done, meaning that once again I can venture into the model railway room. 
 

I’ve had a couple of evenings split between just running trains and trying to get the next few modelling steps sorted. I want to sort both the platforms and the Chester scenic break. The former needs a visit to a model shop, so I’ve started work on the latter. 
 

The scenic break is more complicated than I originally thought as I want to hide the main two lines to Chester as well as giving the impression of DMU sidings just through the bridge - one of which also veers right as it also goes to the fiddle yard. 

 

The first, somewhat wonky, picture shows a rough outline of my propised overbridge. Left to right are carriage sidings 1 and 2, then CS3 which

bends into the fiddle yard, then the Up and Down Holyheads to Chester.   
 

 

Station pilot 03162 brings in empty vans for the evening parcels to the coast. 

 

A dirty 31 backs on to a dirty parcels set. 1986 as I want to model it!

 

 

Before backing down on to the parcels, the 31 had taken fuel alongside an equally grubby Gateshead generator. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by 61656
Duplicate photos

[61656]

Quite a landmark was reached today, with the 525th entry into the excel spreadsheet version of the Christleton timetable. This should be the last train copied from the two working timetables from September 1986 into the model one. 
 

The next step us to allocate stock to all the trains and to then try to calculate the fiddle yard positions. Doubtless I’ll need to revise the timetable quite a bit to balance the stock and siding space. 
 

Hopefully I can do this ‘live’, using the model layout to dictate the allocations, working through move by move. I’ve done up to about 9am, but after that it gets really quite messy!

 

There are several interesting moves and requirements of note:

 

1. A lot more DMU(A) than expected. Pesky 142s and 150s. I’ll need a few first gen DMUs to cover them. Although maybe like BR, a couple of 142s might be more affordable. 
2. there are a lot of DMU moves that could be EMUs with some planning.

3. The variation of D1, D2 and D3 combinations means I can give thought to different DMU consists. 
4. there are two D1(T)s - DPU with tail load. 
5. a service I didn’t know about is a vac braked daily loco hauled passenger service from Paddington to Llandudno. Not too much of a stretch for a 50?

6. There’s a couple more loco hauled Crewe, Cardiff and Man Vic services than I expected, including some vac braked. One is load 210tonnes, which is barely any mk1s at all. 
7. there are several RM&EE paths, including timings for both 20s and 47s. 
8. there are MGR and steel trains aplenty, as well as quite a few tank trains. A single pair of 20s won’t cut the mustard!

9. the number of potentially electric services may lead me to rethink the bare minimum electric stabling available, and probably point to the bay platforms being electrified too. 
10. A train movement every 97 seconds for 24 hours - and it doesn’t include a lot of the light engine or ECS services, and not a relief service in sight!

11. Euston to Holyhead was a very frequent service!

 

Some fun coming up as I try to run through it all!

[5BarVT]

Hats off to you Sir, I’m nowhere near 525 entries.

I can see you’re having fun.  Working through ‘live’ is what will really give the seal of approval.

I’ve recently had fun with my spare loco moves in the storage: I knew I had enough berths for them all but then working out how to get at the inner one when there isn’t anywhere obvious to hid the one that’s on top has caused quite a bit of head scratching!

 

Padd to Llandudno is interesting - was it a combination of Padd-New St and New St-N Wales workings?

 

Paul.

[P.C.M]

Hi there, looks like you are making good progress with the timetable. I noticed you mentioned the Padd - llandudno working. My 1986 loco hauled book tells me it was a Saturdays only working and air braked though that could be wrong.

I did make up a set of MK2s for my working of this train with some branded with NSE markings. I guess it could be MK1s if vac braked but I have never seen a pic of the train.

[61656]

32 minutes ago, P.C.M said:

Hi there, looks like you are making good progress with the timetable. I noticed you mentioned the Padd - llandudno working. My 1986 loco hauled book tells me it was a Saturdays only working and air braked though that could be wrong.

I did make up a set of MK2s for my working of this train with some branded with NSE markings. I guess it could be MK1s if vac braked but I have never seen a pic of the train.

I need to go back and check the WTT. My excel version shows Padd - Lla D2 SX, D315 SO, with the return all days D315. This is possibly a timetable error.   
 

I have the same loco hauled book as you and I’m now going through to try to allocate the correct loco to each working. It looks like the Padd service was 50 to New Street and 47 to the coast. A D315 load is typically BG plus 6 or 7 PV mk2s, which is the same at the trans-pennine and could be either air or vac. A 47 on a mk2 set (or even VB mk1s) isn’t unusual and may even be recorded as a New Street working - the public timetable may not have shown it as a through working, so as 5barVT suggests it could be two workings back to back. I think it’s reasonable that if it was ever anything other than a 47/4 we would already know about it!

 

As far as I can see the booked traction includes the following classes: 33/0, 45/1, 47/4, 85, 86 and 87. Anything else would be a substitute. 

[61656]

14 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Hats off to you Sir, I’m nowhere near 525 entries.

I can see you’re having fun.  Working through ‘live’ is what will really give the seal of approval.

I’ve recently had fun with my spare loco moves in the storage: I knew I had enough berths for them all but then working out how to get at the inner one when there isn’t anywhere obvious to hid the one that’s on top has caused quite a bit of head scratching!

 

Padd to Llandudno is interesting - was it a combination of Padd-New St and New St-N Wales workings?

 

Paul.

St Enodocs spreadsheet has been a godsend, although it’s much modified now, largely to help deal with those kind of issues about where to put locos and stock when not in use. 
 

I think I have enough stock to run the timetable with a couple of substitutes - no MGR, missing at least one electric loco. The biggest issue is finding about 4 DMU/EMU sets without selling a kidney. 

[61656]

Some more detail on the Paddington diagram. Firstly extracts from the WTT. 
 

Here’s the Down working, SO, D315 the 06.58 from Paddington. It follows the same path as the SX working from New Street, which is pathed as D2 (DMU with every other car powered for timing purposes).

 

 

Then the return, up, working from Llandudno at 12.55. Again SO (which means the M-F in my timetable is just wishful thinking, but it may stay). Interestingly no obvious SX path to New Street for the return.

 

Now on to the loco allocation book PCM mentioned. 
 

 

This had two main sections. The first covers loco allocations by class and depot. Here’s the Crewe based 47/4 turns. 47.541 is SO on the 06.58 from Paddington, all the way to Llanduno(!).

 

Over the page we see the rest of the .541 turn. M-F it’s on the Stoke turn.  I haven’t yet found a southbound working on a Friday to get it to Paddington. You can see it also picks up the return working.

 

Then we see the class 50 allocation which takes the return service from New Street. No idea how that turn got from Temple Meads to New Street, but as the book only covers passenger working it could have been on a parcels.

 

 

At the back of the book there’s a list of originating stations and loco hauled workings. First of all Llanduno again (I think this is English for ‘that place in Wales I’ve forgotten the name of’). Interesting just how few loco hauled services started at Llandudno in 86. 
 

 

Then finally the entry for Paddington. Hardly a 47 in sight. Except for ours, obviously. 
 

 

So, Saturday’s Only, not VB as I previously said (in fact marked +, which means 100mph stock). Almost indistinguishable from a TP working. But not that much of a bend to get an aquafresh 50 on netset mk1’s…

[IRC]

11 hours ago, 61656 said:

Some more detail on the Paddington diagram. Firstly extracts from the WTT. 
 

Here’s the Down working, SO, D315 the 06.58 from Paddington. It follows the same path as the SX working from New Street, which is pathed as D2 (DMU with every other car powered for timing purposes).

 

 

Then the return, up, working from Llandudno at 12.55. Again SO (which means the M-F in my timetable is just wishful thinking, but it may stay). Interestingly no obvious SX path to New Street for the return.

 

Now on to the loco allocation book PCM mentioned. 
 

 

This had two main sections. The first covers loco allocations by class and depot. Here’s the Crewe based 47/4 turns. 47.541 is SO on the 06.58 from Paddington, all the way to Llanduno(!).

 

Over the page we see the rest of the .541 turn. M-F it’s on the Stoke turn.  I haven’t yet found a southbound working on a Friday to get it to Paddington. You can see it also picks up the return working.

 

Then we see the class 50 allocation which takes the return service from New Street. No idea how that turn got from Temple Meads to New Street, but as the book only covers passenger working it could have been on a parcels.

 

 

At the back of the book there’s a list of originating stations and loco hauled workings. First of all Llanduno again (I think this is English for ‘that place in Wales I’ve forgotten the name of’). Interesting just how few loco hauled services started at Llandudno in 86. 
 

 

Then finally the entry for Paddington. Hardly a 47 in sight. Except for ours, obviously. 
 

 

So, Saturday’s Only, not VB as I previously said (in fact marked +, which means 100mph stock). Almost indistinguishable from a TP working. But not that much of a bend to get an aquafresh 50 on netset mk1’s…

When I was younger I used to

Holiday in Llandudno on a regular basis and actually caught the Paddington - Llandudno service on a couple of occasions. It was definitely only an SO service. One of the years can’t have been very interesting haulage but one year IS based 47517 turned up on the service, presumably to get it back north as it worked to Llandudno and then I believe back to Crewe where it was removed for more local traction.

The service only lasted a couple of years and was an odd one (although welcome as we lived in Reading). Once it had been withdrawn, we were faced with a Reading - BNS leg, then a change for an eight car DMU combination. That was fun as a holiday service! We went back to driving after that….

[P.C.M]

I can't actually find my loco hauled book at the moment, but good to know my memory is still OK. The Stoke train that ran during the week did a trip down the branch before going back to stoke. This train had D200 on it a number of times too. 

Back too the Padd- llandudno serive I found a pic on Flickr with no heat 47017 reversing out of llandudno with ECS.

But no reason why you couldn't have  a class 50. I have one in bits which when done might get some use. 50s did for a short to time work an early morning pass / van train from Cardiff to Crewe and back on my timetable this runs to llanbourne with a class 33, 37, or 47. The thought is s 50 could turn up now and then.

 

[GordonC]

that loco hauled book looks fantastic, I'd not seen that before

 

[5BarVT]

6 hours ago, IRC said:

then a change for an eight car DMU combination. That was fun as a holiday service! We went back to driving after that….

I feel your pain!

I did Mcr Vic to Bangor on an 8 car DMU in 1972.

Paul.

[61656]

55 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

I feel your pain!

I did Mcr Vic to Bangor on an 8 car DMU in 1972.

Paul.

Have you arrived yet? Do let us know.

[61656]

4 hours ago, GordonC said:

that loco hauled book looks fantastic, I'd not seen that before

 

It’s a great book (although Mrs 61656 thought I’d finally lost it when she found me reading it). PCM shared it on his Llanborne thread and I was lucky enough to find one on thebay. Really useful resource, the output of which should be shared with you shortly. 

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I feel your pain!

I did Mcr Vic to Bangor on an 8 car DMU in 1972.

Paul.

You were lucky! Man Vic to Ludo on a 150, summer Saturday 1986...