German Stock Query

[Guest 40-something]

Hi All

 

I'm slowly gathering stock for a small HO layout and whilst I'm relatively up to scratch with motive power, I know next to nothing about freight stock.

 

The layout will be set in the early 80s and is a small country through station with a couple of sidings, in the Ruhr area. Traffic will essentially be just general traffic in and local produce out.

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of suitable stock please?

 

Thanks in advance

[shedman]

By 1982 when I first went to Cologne most if not all of the stock I saw was in Era IV livery ie with the 12 digit computer numbers eg 21 80 155 9 084-5.

Liveries on locos were blue/beige on diesels and electrics, but the old blue and green on electrics and maroon on diesels were still plentiful. Class 103 and 112 electrics were red/beige.

 

Local train coaching stock was stainless steel "Silverfish", green or blue beige centre entrance 26.4m "Eilzugwagen", or green bogie converts (Umbauwagen). 6-wheel coaches had almost disappeared except in PW service, as had pre-war coaching  stock, although I did see 1 3 coach train in Aachen. Push pull trains were made up of Silverfish and/or Eilzugwagen. Suitable coaches would have a lower case "f" or a "b" in the coach type description eg Bnb ABylb BDnf. Try to avoid wagons with a brake cabin on the end!

 

Long distance trains were largely made up of  Bm, Am and ABm stock. again in blue/beige or green (2nd) or blue (1st). The odd pop livery coach could be seen. Restaurants were red, although some were red at one end and blue at the other, split in the middle, and some green red. I am trying hard not to make this too technical.

French trains (some in Corail livery) Austrian, Danish and Italian and DR trains were observed. Belgian and Dutch trains mainly seemed to terminate at Cologne Deutz.

Modern InterCity trains were just starting up, with red/beige former TEE coaches for first class and blue/beige Bm235 or Bpmz Eurofima type coaches for second class. The odd all first TEE train, eg Rheingold, was still running.

 

Each station seemed to have a goods yard, some even with a small Kof shunter.

 

I hope this is helpful. I must stress that it is based on my observations around Cologne and others more knowledgeable than I might like to comment. As I say, I have tried not to be too technical.

 

I now await the flack!!

[Taigatrommel]

I would second shedman's suggestion of sticking with Epoch IV stuff, Epoch III can have some older Länderbahn wagons and the lettering can look quite different.  It was a mistake I made early on while modelling DB!

 

I'd like to suggest some classic wagons for you.  Hell, I can even sell you some if you like, I have a little H0 German remaining to get rid of!

 

Gbs van.  Abosolutely the typical thing to be sat in a station siding with all sorts of dry goods.

 

Fcs hopper wagon.  Fill it with coal or stone.

 

Es open wagon.  All sorts of loads, from wood to sugar beet through coal.

 

Hbis etc vans.  Use it like your Gbs.

 

For some bogie stock, how about a nod to your Britishness with a Ferrywagon?

 

Long lived and characterful, the Ucs cement/dry powder silo wagons.

 

Very useful are flat wagons of twin axle or bogie variety.  Look at the numbers for that twin axle one- 14,200 built!  You can put so many different loads on them, vehicles civilian and military, railway wheels, pipes, containers, steel... I'd say it's essential!

 

Tank wagons are harder to pin down typical types for, they were in general privately owned.

 

I'll PM you after I've taken my daughter to school.

[doctor quinn]

Agree with shedman that all stock should have got UIC computer numbers by the 80s though I recall plenty of wine red locos around Stuttgart around 1980.

 

As for types of goods stock, you're thinking of country branch line in the Ruhr. How about the Neandertal? The area produces limestone used in the steel industry which was shipped in a variety of wagons, bogie and 4 wheel covered hoppers, silo wagons and cylindrical "von haus zu haus" containers depending on the customer.

 

Class 220 were used on the limestone trains as well as 290 and the V160 family, local passenger services included battery railcars.

 

All of the above is from "Rhein-Ruhrgebeit Eisenbahnen im Landschaft" by Thomas Feldmann which is an excellent resource on the area.

 

Hope this helps, look forward to seeing the layout.

 

Nick

[Northroader]

Dutch-master, please elaborate a bit on working branch lines the German way rather than the English way, you've got me intrigued?

[Guest 40-something]

Thanks for all the comprehensive replies folks, much appreciated.

 

The layout Im planning will be around 6ft long with a single platform and 3 or 4 goods sidings, one of which I may make a cement works if I can find suitable photos. This layout will be a side project to my main 4mm layout which is under construction, scratching a DB itch!

 

So far I've picked up a Class 515 railcar, and Im on the look-out for a 212 and 218 diesel, along with goods stock.  As things go Im hoping to start this layout off as cheap as possible and this brings me to the question, are the wagons that Lima produced yonks ago decorated as UK wagons any good?  ie are they based on actual prototypes?  Im thinking mainly of the open wagons labelled NCB and the Ferry Vans.  Would a lick of paint and some decals turn them into suitable stock?  I know the wont be up to scratch compared to current models but as a cheap opener might they fit the bill?

[Neils WRX]

Thanks for all the comprehensive replies folks, much appreciated.

 

The layout Im planning will be around 6ft long with a single platform and 3 or 4 goods sidings, one of which I may make a cement works if I can find suitable photos. This layout will be a side project to my main 4mm layout which is under construction, scratching a DB itch!

 

So far I've picked up a Class 515 railcar, and Im on the look-out for a 212 and 218 diesel, along with goods stock. As things go Im hoping to start this layout off as cheap as possible and this brings me to the question, are the wagons that Lima produced yonks ago decorated as UK wagons any good? ie are they based on actual prototypes? Im thinking mainly of the open wagons labelled NCB and the Ferry Vans. Would a lick of paint and some decals turn them into suitable stock? I know the wont be up to scratch compared to current models but as a cheap opener might they fit the bill?

Re stock I'd ignore cheap Lima models and go with Roco etc as these are far superior.

[Hobby]

The layout will be set in the early 80s and is a small country through station with a couple of sidings, in the Ruhr area. Traffic will essentially be just general traffic in and local produce out.

 

 

Remember that they like loops over there... Don't be tempted like many modellers to make a British-style track plan and then put a German station building on it and call it German, same way as D-M said regarding how trains operate, thire track plans are very different to UK ones...

[doctor quinn]

Re stock I'd ignore cheap Lima models and go with Roco etc as these are far superior.

 

it's unlikely that repainting Lima "British" HO would be that much cheaper than second-hand Roco from the likes of Contikits. If you do want to do any repaints/renumbering Andreas Nothaft is very good. http://www.modellbahndecals.de/index.php

 

Nick

[Bernard Lamb]

Early 1980s would have included early container traffic.

From photos a couple of 40 footers in  a train rather than a dedicated rake so could crop up any where.

Stake wagons also seem to be around in all sorts of odd places, another difference from the UK.

Bernard

[steve1]

Dependent on where you live, you might consider visiting this exhibition in May - http://www.grs-uk.org/events.htm

 

steve

[ceejaydee]

I'm dipping a toe in the world of German railways and have selected DR late 60's through to late 70's as a loose time frame.

As this project is HO scale I have picked up one of the Roco start wagon sets and at a shade over £40 for eight wagons with NEM coupling pockets it seems like good value.

They are maybe slightly older models but the set is still worth every penny imho and there is a DB set available which may be of use for your prospective layout although it is Ep. III

Roco Art. No. 44002 at around £45

 

The NEM pockets are quite important to me as I'm likely to change to Kadees at some point.

 

CJD

[Andy Hayter]

Just a word on containers, Bernard is right that they were around in the early 80s, but if your layout is a terminus (as I understand it is) then you will need facilities to handle containers.  40ft containers are generally rated at 28t so you would need a 30ton + crane.  Not something you would find at the end of every branch.

[Markus-Hymek]

Thanks for all the comprehensive replies folks, much appreciated.

 

The layout Im planning will be around 6ft long with a single platform and 3 or 4 goods sidings, one of which I may make a cement works if I can find suitable photos. This layout will be a side project to my main 4mm layout which is under construction, scratching a DB itch!

 

So far I've picked up a Class 515 railcar, and Im on the look-out for a 212 and 218 diesel, along with goods stock.  As things go Im hoping to start this layout off as cheap as possible and this brings me to the question, are the wagons that Lima produced yonks ago decorated as UK wagons any good?  ie are they based on actual prototypes?  Im thinking mainly of the open wagons labelled NCB and the Ferry Vans.  Would a lick of paint and some decals turn them into suitable stock?  I know the wont be up to scratch compared to current models but as a cheap opener might they fit the bill?

 

Class 515 railcar is very good from Kato but rare, look at eBay. Class 212 you can get from Roco or much finer and stronger detailed from Brawa. Class 218 look to Roco too, its a very good one. Buy actuel stuff build at the last ten years and not such old Lima toytrain crap!

[steve1]

I'm dipping a toe in the world of German railways and have selected DR late 60's through to late 70's as a loose time frame.

As this project is HO scale I have picked up one of the Roco start wagon sets and at a shade over £40 for eight wagons with NEM coupling pockets it seems like good value.

They are maybe slightly older models but the set is still worth every penny imho and there is a DB set available which may be of use for your prospective layout although it is Ep. III

Roco Art. No. 44002 at around £45

 

The NEM pockets are quite important to me as I'm likely to change to Kadees at some point.

 

CJD

CJD

 

Regarding that starter set. I have been reliably informed that there are a number of prototype errors with some of those wagons. Incorrect length, markings, etc. Cloggydog on here can give you chapter & verse on this, as he did me when I got mine. You can get away with them for Epoch Ill if you are prepared to turn a blind eye to these errors.

 

I agree about the NEM pockets! I use Kadees on my German layout Starker Verkehr and they're excellent.

 

steve

[Markus-Hymek]

The Roco wagon Set 44002 have its orgin in the early days of Roco back in the seventies of the last century. They were good for its time but have several minor errors and the only product update since than is the short coupling mechanism and the NEM pockets.

The refrigator car is to short, others are to long or have a wrong wheelbase.

I had two sets of em in my teen-days and were happy to play with but today I wouldn't spent a cent for em.

[ceejaydee]

CJD

 

Regarding that starter set. I have been reliably informed that there are a number of prototype errors with some of those wagons. Incorrect length, markings, etc. Cloggydog on here can give you chapter & verse on this, as he did me when I got mine. You can get away with them for Epoch Ill if you are prepared to turn a blind eye to these errors.

 

I agree about the NEM pockets! I use Kadees on my German layout Starker Verkehr and they're excellent.

 

steve

 

Thanks for the information Steve and Markus.

 

I'm not too worried about 100% accuracy and that is part of the attraction of modelling overseas railways for me. 

Conversely I can't live with errors in UK outline stock which is why I have been unable to make any progress with anything from the late BR blue period which I remember so well and have tried so many times to re-create.

 

It is just not the same with US or European outline for me where I have no or limited experience of the prototype; In some ways it is a return to the innocence of youth where I can build what looks right to me and then enjoy playing running.

Another attraction of overseas modelling and in particular to HO scale is that the Peco OO/HO track is ideal for this whereas I find it difficult to use for British outline 4mm scale but I don't want to do EM or anything else wider.

 

We all enjoy this hobby for our various reasons and I've spent enough time in the past in a modelling paralysis as I've been agonising about some detail which stops progress rather than simply building and enjoying.

 

Whilst not in the current line of thinking with the super accurate models of today, I'm an admirer of the likes of Crewchester or Gorre and Daphetid where the atmosphere and creative play value of the layouts more than make up for any lack in ultimate accuracy - if you like I have developed a narrow gauge or semi-freelance approach to standard gauge.

 

I understand where Markus is coming with his views from given his location; it is similar to my own to in regard to stock I have personal experience of as I mentioned earlier.

 

Maybe as a product of the Nineteen-Seventies myself I have a slight empathy for my Roco bargain wagons!

[Allegheny1600]

It is just not the same with US or European outline for me where I have no or limited experience of the prototype; In some ways it is a return to the innocence of youth where I can build what looks right to me and then enjoy playing running.

 

 

Another attraction of overseas modelling and in particular to HO scale is that the Peco OO/HO track is ideal for this whereas I find it difficult to use for British outline 4mm scale but I don't want to do EM or anything else wider.

 

Absolutely!

Even though I've travelled a fair bit and have seen the prototype/s quite a lot, I don't know it quite as well as I knew British back in drab blue days so it's always refreshing to model something that still has a "newness" to it.

 

I love the H0 scale/gauge combination, it works for me so I'm holding onto H0 for my limited British adventures! There isn't too much available so it's easier on the pocket and it encourages me to do some proper modelling.

 

Sorry to go OT, I just needed to give you encouragement on that point. Back OT, I would also encourage you to simply choose stock that has computer numbers with the black 'Keks' (DB biscuit) logo, the red 'Keks' should indicate era V which started post 1985.

Cheers,

John E.

 

Edit: Whoops! Sorry 40-something, I forgot you are the OP!

[CloggyDog]

CJD

 

Regarding that starter set. I have been reliably informed that there are a number of prototype errors with some of those wagons. Incorrect length, markings, etc. Cloggydog on here can give you chapter & verse on this, as he did me when I got mine. You can get away with them for Epoch Ill if you are prepared to turn a blind eye to these errors.

 

I agree about the NEM pockets! I use Kadees on my German layout Starker Verkehr and they're excellent.

 

steve

 

Full chapter and verse can be found here: http://www.modellbahnfrokler.de/kritik/einfachserie.html(best read via a translate tool!)

 

That said, I wholly agree they are a decent, cheap starting point, especially if their inaccuracies are not so important to you. I've only recently divested myself of the DB set I picked up at Intermodellbau a few years back for 45 euros. Certainly the NEM pockets of the current production is useful - having also acquired a number of older Piko (and Roco) wagons without NEMs I know that only too well!

 

 

I concur with much of the previous posters - vans, flats/stakes, opens, hoppers, silos a-plenty, all with the UIC computer numbering. By the early-80s, the older wooden opens and vans would be relegated to secondary service or as 'rubbish wagons' parked at the end of a siding. For your era and location, freight stock would be predominantly DB, but a fair smattering of NS, SNCF, SNCB, DSB, FS, OBB and a much, much smaller scattering of DR, CSD, MAV, PKP.

 

 

Regarding German station layouts and plans, a couple of useful websites with prototypical plans:

http://home.arcor.de/arl/lageplan/ 

http://www.gleisplaene.de/index.php  

http://www.eythra.de/bf/   

 

And one aimed at railway modellers: http://www.lokalbahn-reminiszenzen.de/gleisplaene/gleisplan_frameset.htm

 

And yes, they do like loops. lots of them. Note also how often the station building ('EG') isn't directly connected to the platforms - in some cases there's a goods siding to cross to access the platforms. And a goodly number of platforms were single faced, even with tracks running either side. My own H0 layout (early-80s DR) has seen a number of revisions to it's plan as I learn more and more about DR and how it operated.

 

And if you want to add signalling, I can also recommend the signalling books (vol 1 semaphore, vol 2 colour light) available from the German Railway Society.

[FelixM]

Yes, we Germans like loops! Just like you Britains try to avoid facing points.

 

Loops are the most direct way to get trains from a line side by side in a station and back onto the line. As the German interlocking in mechanical signalling is totally independent from what it actually locks (which points, FPLs and so on...), and because there is a signal aspect Hp2 which means diverging route without telling which route in detail actually (in opposite to British signalling where each route has it's own signal and hence it is more economical to have as few as possible), German track plans are distinctly different from British ones. But please try not to model other people's models and if it is only a model railway trackplan, try to do research on your own and model the prototype. Thanks.

 

Regards

Felix

[roythebus]

I took the plunge to model DB era IV back in the early 1980's following a couple of holidays there in the Cologne/Duesseldorf area. I was lucky to pal up with a DB driver who gave me a few cab rides too! His local station, Rath, on the S8 from Dusseldorf had plenty of interest, local S-bahn services, through freight on the avoiding lines, local pick-up goods and a goods yard. In there as an old wooden bodies van used by the local greengrocer as a shop, now there's something worth modelling.

 

There was also the 2 tram routes into town.

 

I built a small branch layout form a German track plans book and used Kadees from the outset. The layout worked remarkably well and was sadly dismantled about 5 years ago, having been amended with overhead electrics, interlocked colour light signals, a spiral at one end, hidden loops that ended in a reverse loop. It gave me years of fun building and operating. It did appear at several shows over the years.

 

Good luck to the OP on your new venture. some good advice has been given above.