Signalling of modern station approach

[njee20]

Seems to be a divisive topic this one, so I hate to annoy the purists, but would welcome some advice...

 

My layout is based on present day WCML in n gauge. I'd like to shove a few signals on it, I'm not aiming for complete prototypical accuracy, but if I'm going to the trouble then I may as well get it vaguely right.

 

Sort of accidentally, but conveniently, the approach track plan is very similar to Crewe: 4-track main line, arranged DS-DF-UF-US, platform faces on the slow lines, two bay platforms on the up side, plus two other through platforms ( a junction) on the down side. Only half the station is modelled, and let's assume plain track on the run in 'off scene' up the line.

 

Crewe diagram.

 

My question is how would this be signalled on the down lines approaching the station? Ie what are signals 146/144 on the above? If we assume it's a 100/125mph limit on the running lines you're not going to have a theatre indicator surely? Or would they, because you'd be on double yellow/yellow if you were diverging? I basically have platforms 1,5,6,9 and 10. My inclination is that 146 would have feathers at positions 3, 4 and 5 and 144 would have them at 2, 3 and 4. But technically would that be signalling you onto the up lines, wouldn't it? Or is it implicit that it would be across the running lines into the bay platforms? I'm not intending 'platform 6' to be bi-directional.

 

Like I say, other signals on the down lines will be off scene, and I'm happier with the up lines, although would the platform starters on in the bays - Crewe platforms 9/10 - have a UF/US theatre indicator? Or a single position 4 feather, no feather being the slow?

 

Welcome any advice!

[Grovenor]

With 11 routes each for signals 144/6 you are not going to do it with feathers, theatres they have to be.

Regards

[njee20]

Aye, the real ones, but I have 4 options in effect - carry on fast/slow, cross to other running line, cross up lines to bay platforms, take diverging route off slow line.

[The Pilotman]

It is possible to have feathers and a theatre indicator on the same signal, with the feathers for the faster routes. The old R379 on the up Westbury line at Reading West Main was such a signal. The routes for which you would get feathers were all through routes whilst the theatre indicator was for the bay platforms 1-3.

If you post a track diagram of your layout, I'm sure someone will be able to say what should go where. I'll have a go anyway.

[Edwin_m]

Doesn't Crewe have theatre indicators that can also show a diagonal line to replicate a feather? 

[beast66606]

Doesn't Crewe have theatre indicators that can also show a diagonal line to replicate a feather? 

 

Yes.

[njee20]

Yeah, I'll sort out a track diagram for my layout specifically, the Crewe example over complicates things rather!

 

I suspect it would, in reality, be a combination of feathers and theatre indicators by the sounds of it.

[njee20]

Right! Track diagram hastily drawn... Blue rectangles are platforms, green dots are signals. It's like an episode of Sesame Street.

 

Layout by njee20, on Flickr

 

My take on it is:

 

Signals 1 & 2: 4 aspect, I imagine they'd have a theatre indicator in real life, being platform starters, UF/US type thing. Being as it's n gauge that's not gonna happen, so thinking a RH feather for the fast line, no feather illuminated for the slow.

 

Signals 3 & 4: 4 aspect, RH feather and LH feather respectively for swapping onto other running line.

 

Signals 5 & 6: these are the ones I'm not sure about... I'm leaning towards having three feathers - positions 1,2,4 and 1,4,5 for the two respectively. Perhaps in real life it would have a theatre indicator for the bays and feathers for the diverging through lines? Again... being as it's n gauge I think 3 feathers is challenge enough (but CR Signals can allegedly manage it!) so I suspect that's what I'll go with, but would welcome advice?

 

Should also have put another signal on the second from bottom line (pretend I did) - trains coming out of that platform will obviously cross the slow lines, so again I'm guessing you'd probably have no feather for the fast (inner) line, and a LH feather for the slow?

 

Minefield this. All for some twinkly lights! Thanks again for any advice!
 

Nick

[Edwin_m]

There are crossovers for "wrong direction" access from the lower three platforms rightwards (as happens at Crewe), so you will need signals on these platforms.  Probably similar to signal 4. 

[The Pilotman]

I think you're almost correct but would make the following comments:

 

Signals 1 and 2 would probably as you say, have theatre indicators, but I think your idea of having a position 4 JI for the up main is a good "second best".

 

Signals 3 and 4 would be as you describe.

 

Signal 5 would either have position 1,2,4 and 5 JIs to cater for all the routes you seem to want, or a theatre indicator to replace the position 4 and 5 JIs for the bay platforms.

 

Similarly, signal 6 would either have position 1,4,5, and 6 JIs or a theatre indicator to replace the position 5 and 6 JIs for the bay platforms.

 

As for the missing signal (shall we call it 7?), again, it would have a theatre indicator in reality but your suggestion of a position 1 JI for the up slow is good enough.

 

Now, just to add to the complexity, signals 5 and 6 would likely also have a subsidiary signal to allow for permissive working in to the platform lines.

 

A caveat: this is my opinion based on 10 years experience working in a large PSB. I don't know the ins and outs of signalling standards regulations but what I have written follows what I have seen and operated in practice. Hope that helps.

[The Pilotman]

I am not sure Edwin's post above applies as it looks to me like all the through platforms are uni-directional. Is that correct?

Also, why do you need the scissors crossing between the down fast and down slow? I reckon it should be replaced with a facing crossover from the down fast to down slow. The only benefit to keeping it would be to allow you to run a train from the down fast into one of the bay platforms at the same time as running a train from the down slow onto the down main through the station, which seems a rather unlikely combination of moves (IMHO).

[njee20]

Platforms are intended to be uni-directional, yes.

 

That's brilliant, thank you WA! Scissor crossing on the down lines will remain, as I've laid it (and I find them aesthetically pleasing), although I agree with hindsight it's rather unnecessary!

[bigP]

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[njee20]

Wow, thanks Paul, most certainly don't mind your 'oar', it's very helpful! Hadn't really thought about the stencil indicators, that feels doable, and probably easier than feathers in a lot of ways!

 

Really appreciate the effort and input, if I don't make a complete dogs dinner of this, photos may well follow once I actually get around to doing some more on the layout!