The Oak Hill Branch - LBSCR / SECR 1905ish - New layout starts on page 129

[BlueLightning]

Well it would seem this week that amongst other things I have become a fencer! and no it doesn't have anything with the duel I was challenged to last week.

 

But before we get on with that Oak Hill has a new arrival!! courtesy of GreenGiraffe22 of this parish another Terrier has arrived!!

 

However I think that black paint will have to go!!!

 

Oh and I picked these up from club last night. In preparation for a 009 project:

 

So onto the fences first we finally have the platform fence, this is Ratio 421 GWR Platform fence painted into LB&SCR colours and to my eyes I think it does the trick:

 

The lamps have also finally been stuck in place however everything else is just sitting there for the time being while I play with ideas, I am thinking flower beds along the fence between the lamps and benches.

 

And the goods yard has received a fence along the front of the layout:

 

 

These 2 fences make a huge difference to the look of the layout and make it look much more "complete":

 

In fact they did such a good job that in the last 5 minutes I have put in the fence running down to the station entrance!! I did think about not putting the trees back and waiting until the permanent ones arrive but they break up the rear of the layout.

 

 

SO all in all a busier week this week, and we are getting very close to the layout having the basic effect that I am after all over. Then I can go back and add detail to everything.

 

Hope you enjoyed, thanks for looking,

 

Gary

[GreenGiraffe22]

Said it in the messages and I'll say it again, even in that livery she looks so at home on your layout!   Awesome fence work too it's one of the things on my to do list for my layout 

[choo1choo]

Afternoon Gary,

 

Looking good. Just started on two Bachmann LMS cattle wagons. As you say very similar to LBSCR and cheap as chips on Flea Bay. Giving them white roofs and mid grey livery and numbers in the 7400 series. 

 

Never sure whether the fencing should be Brighton "red" or "cream". My platform fencing at the moment is staying red...but....I'm probably wrong. Usually am!

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Craig.

[BlueLightning]

She does look good in that livery. I'm just worried the locals will get confused by it saying "Southern" on the tanks.

 

Speaking of which I forgot some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Last week I did some bidding on eBay and ended up with a nice selection of Langley Models figures for the layout.

 

All of the correct period we have:

 

Railway Staff:

 

The Working Class:

 

The Upper Class

 

Which just leaves me with one problem. I have never painted figures before!! I don't even know where to start!! and advice would be gratefully received and please don't assume I know anything because I don't!!

 

Gary

[BlueLightning]

Craig,

 

I have no idea regarding the correct colour for the fencing. I have based my colour scheme on Ian White's East Grinstead Town layout http://early-lbscr.co.uk/grinsted/grinsted.htm other than that I have no idea if what I have done is right but It does look good.

 

I bet red looks good on them as well.

 

Gary

[Norwenglish]

Hi Gary,

 

The fences have really framed everything nicely! It's interesting how just adding fencing seems to improve the look of layouts quite considerably.

 

Those seem to be some very nicely cast Langley figures as well, we've had the bad luck of picking up some that were cast nowhere near as nicely. If you would like, I can throw together a step by step guide that I can put here or on our workbench thread of how I paint figures, as I'm due to do some this week.

 

Stuart

[BlueLightning]

Thanks Stuart,

 

Yes they are cast rather nicely, I suppose that's one advantage of eBay I could see pictures of the actual castings before I bid.

 

A step-by-step would be much appreciated, either here or on your workbench as I follow that so I will see it.

 

Gary

[jamesg]

The figures look great - the Edwardian clothing will suit the layout perfectly.  I can only echo Phil Parker's advice from a recent BRM DVD, which helped me when painting figures.  White metal figures generally don't need primer (you can use car spray primer, which helps a little with painting).  Glue the figure temporarily to a lollipop stick with superglue, it'll break easily when painting is finished.  Start painting from the middle and work out to avoid going over bits that have been painted previously, so start with the face, then move to the shirt, trousers, waistcoat, hair, jacket and hat.  Don't paint shirts white, use light grey instead as shirts weren't always perfectly clean and don't reflect the light perfectly.  Painting figures does take time, the best thing to do is not to rush.

[Jack P]

Excellent thread. Followed and looking forward to seeing more!

[BlueLightning]

Thanks Jack,

 

Glad you enjoyed reading it.

 

Gary

[ChrisN]

Gary,

I would not discourage anyone from posting a step by step but I think you need to look at several techniques and find/adapt the one you like.  I always wash in 'Fairy Liquid' to remove grease and always prime with grey, either spray or brushed.  As already suggested you need to stick them to something so that you do not keep touching them and adding grease from your fingers.  I use strips of business card stuck on with Copydex, trouble is I want it not to be permanent and often it hardly lasts anytime at all.

 

You need to decide if you are going to use acrylics or enamels.  I use enamels and get frustrated that they take so long.

 

As already suggested start on the face and work outwards, although you can do the shoes and gloves whenever, The hands if bare can be done at the same time as the face.  When I paint the face I use thinned flesh colour and if you are careful/lucky the eyes will end up appearing darker, so give the impression of eyes, same with the mouth.  I personally do not try and paint either separately as I am not convinced it works..

 

If you want to give the impression of old clothes then I use washes.  Whatever I have painted I have tried to use a darker wash, or a black wash to draw in the folds.  I do use white for shirts, blouses, and the actual colours I want although there is good reason to use more muted colours on figures that size.

 

Some techniques are taken directly from wargamming and as my son said, who does wargamming, they are fine but you do not want your passengers to look like they have just fought the Battle of Waterloo.

 

Pedant mode.  They are actually 1890s figures, probably late 1890s rather than Edwardian, but if they were not that rich then their clothes may not have changed.  Only someone like me who has spent time studying such things would know, but it is good to be informed.  (I have Stadden's Edwardian figures from 1905 posing on my layout, or will eventually, in 1895, and I saw in Railway Modeller the same figures in an 1880s layout.)

 

I think the Langley figures are the best of their range.

 

You may like to look at Mikkel's thread, well blog.  Some of the early posts are about figures but I cannot remember if he talked about painting.  I just remember being in awe when I saw them.

 

Have fun with the figures, they can be addictive.  Hope some of this helps.

[BlueLightning]

Thanks Chris.

 

Very informative post and I shall bear it all in mind. I will remember to wash the figures before I paint them. I was unaware that they are 1890's figures the packet labels them as Edwardian/Victorian but I am very impressed with them on the whole and look forward to populating the layout with them.

 

I will now go and have another look at Mikkel's blog. It has been a while since I saw the early posts and forgot about details of people.

 

Gary

[ChrisN]

Thanks Chris.

 

Very informative post and I shall bear it all in mind. I will remember to wash the figures before I paint them. I was unaware that they are 1890's figures the packet labels them as Edwardian/Victorian but I am very impressed with them on the whole and look forward to populating the layout with them.

 

I will now go and have another look at Mikkel's blog. It has been a while since I saw the early posts and forgot about details of people.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

There are some tips on my thread if you want to plough through it, tips by other people given to me that is.  Some are in the (uncompleted) index.  There are whole threads on figure painting if you search the forum for them.  Read, learn, inwardly digest then do it how you feel best.

[BlueLightning]

Lots of reading to be done then. I wonder if I can give myself another day off to fit it in!!!!!

 

Gary

[Jack P]

Gary, 

 

just my 2c when it comes to painting figures, I like to prime them well before hand, trying to make sure to remove any molding lines then I paint in this order:

 

Skin, making sure to cover more area than I think I need to

Whites, or any ties, undershirts etc

Blue, making sure to be very fine in following the detail lines

 

I follow this with a very diluted wash of black to taste, I wipe/blot the majority off to just leave it in the detail lines

 

 

The close up probably cruelly picks up how bad it is in reality, it looks fine from regular viewing distance, on the left is what you start with on the right is what you end with - currently hasn't been washed with black yet.

 

 

Not that i'm a pro, or that this is the be all and end all, but it's just what works for me! Hope this helps to some extent

Edited March 14, 2017 by Jack P

[BlueLightning]

Thanks Jack. Those figures look good.

 

Gary

[Mikkel]

Hi Gary, I think Chris has said it all - and although it's kind of him to refer to my blog you won't find much about painting techniques there, only finished figures.

 

I also agree with Chris about the eyes. Very skilled figure painters can do these convincingly in 4mm scale, but I really struggle with it and so mostly avoid them these days, instead just indicating the eye sockets in a darker colour, and/or maybe a hint of a horisontal line. Contrary to what one might think, two "dots" often ends up looking wrong. 

[Nick Holliday]

 

It has come out a lot better than I expected:

cattleDock2.jpg

 

It even stands up quite well to close up images (although not one for the purists):

cattleDock3.jpg

 

So for this I have used 10thou (I think) plasticard for the pickets and 15thou (I think) for the uprights and cross braces, some plastic rod of the same thickness for the catch, and paper for the hinges. The bas was made out of 20thou plasticard coated with SE Finecast brick sheet with the top covered in an unknown make for the tiles (possibly SE Finecast again).

 

When building this I used pictures of the cattle dock at Kingscote and drawings prepared by my friend Ian Hopkins. I still have a couple of jobs to do such as a fence along side the ramp but I don't know how much time I will get to add these week. So an update to the cattle dock will follow when time allows.

 

Thanks for looking, hope you enjoyed,

 

Gary

Just a small point, most LBSC cattle pens were painted white, and kept scrupulously clean, with fresh applications of lime wash as required. This is the one at Horsham, which seems to be of a similar design, However, the temporary barriers across the opening do seem to be unpainted or creosoted timber.

[BlueLightning]

Thanks Nick. That's a great picture, wish I had that when u was building it. I will have to consider pulling the fences off to paint them now.

 

Gary

[corneliuslundie]

I looked in Southern Style 2 LB&SCR but there is nothing about the colours of fences, so that photo is very useful.

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

She does look good in that livery. I'm just worried the locals will get confused by it saying "Southern" on the tanks.

 

Speaking of which I forgot some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Last week I did some bidding on eBay and ended up with a nice selection of Langley Models figures for the layout.

 

All of the correct period we have:

 

Railway Staff:

railwayStaff.jpg

 

The Working Class:

workingClass.jpg

 

The Upper Class

upperClass.jpg

 

Which just leaves me with one problem. I have never painted figures before!! I don't even know where to start!! and advice would be gratefully received and please don't assume I know anything because I don't!!

 

Gary

 

A great collection, Gary, you should do well with these. I reckon I am an average to fair painter, and getting to a reasonable standard is pretty straightforward. For what it's worth, I tackle figures as follows:

 

Prime with Halford's grey primer.  Why? I have found grey to be the best colour to paint over and it's cheap! Black works best with 28mm scale, though.

 

I use water-based acrylics.  You can achieve similar results with enamels, but I just don't see the need to use a paint that has to be cleaned with thinner or washing up liquid after each colour when I can use one that just needs a swish in a jam jar of water and a quick dab on some kitchen towel.   

 

Paint the flesh.  I mix a bronze flesh with a reddish flesh.  With Citadel paints I used Bronze Flesh and Dwarf Flesh in equal amounts.  For the Vallejo I tend to find I need more of the latter. I then flood with diluted brown ink to add the shading.  Sometimes I will dry-brush a paler flesh over the high relief features, but this is not that necessary in 1/76.  Many figures I see on layouts have very pale, apparently almost white, faces.  I prefer a ruddier complexion.

 

Clothes in whatever order seems convenient.  For instance, I might do the shirt after the darker suiting if dry-brushing the latter is likely to affect the paler area of the linen.

 

The key, I think, is twofold.  First, dry-brush everything.  Dry brushing gives a degree of relief and realism out of all proportion to the skill and effort involved.  Dry-brushing has been explained in many places, but essentially you put paint on the brush and then wipe most of it off on, say, kitchen towel, then brush lightly over the figure.  You will be brushing a paler shade over the darker to make the raised areas of the model lighted, leaving the rest in 'shadow'.  It takes a little practice, but, frankly, not very much.  

 

Second, colour. I never use pure colours.  Colours are often too bright and pure out of the pot for scale figures, so I will often add black and then, a Bleached Bone/Bone White paint to bleach out the colour.  Black is never black.  It may be slightly dirtied with brown, but it is always, always slightly bleached with Bleached Bone/Bone White.  White is depicted using Bleached Bone/Bone White, over something darker if a large area with significant relief.  I could not survive without Bleached Bone/Bone White, though I find I almost never use White, even for mixing. 

 

Clothing can achieve some wonderfully 'indeterminate' colours, especially if you don't change the water very frequently!

[BlueLightning]

Thanks James,

 

You say you are an average to fair painter, however if I get anywhere close to the ones you have posted I shall be very happy indeed!! I shall go and hunt out some Vallejo paints next week as I intended to use acrylics for the reason you mention, and I know the local model shop stocks them.

 

The real trick will be to see if I can get my dog to sit in a nice pose so I can copy her for the one in the set. She doesn't have all that long left and I think it would be nice to immortalise her on the layout.

 

Gary

[Norwenglish]

Edwardian's method is pretty much the same as mine, so he's saved me from doing the step by step i was going to do.

 

Vallejo acrylics are a good choice (it's what I use, especially after games workshop changed their paint range), they have a incredibly large range and go on very nicely, but for metals I use their model air range and brush them on, as the ones I have bought from their main range seem to be very think and don't respond well to watering down. Also they have a much finer pigment than for example Game Workshop's range, so be careful handling the figures after painting as there can be problems with the paint rubbing off if they havn't been varnished.

 

Stuart

[BlueLightning]

Thanks for the tips Stuart. I shall remember to spray them with some varnish before I touch them.

 

Gary

[Nick Holliday]

I looked in Southern Style 2 LB&SCR but there is nothing about the colours of fences, so that photo is very useful.

Jonathan

Jonathan

You have opened up a bit of a can of worms.  I have had a quick trawl through various albums, and I would like to make the following initial observations:

As per Southern Style, cattle docks and level crossings were painted white, with black iron work on the level crossing gates. Fencing directly adjacent to level crossings was also white.

For the rest of fencing, there seem to be no hard and fast rules, so for anything I may say, there is probably at least one exception that can be found. 

General timber fencing, similar to Ratio.

This seems to be white where close to paying customers, such as on platforms, occasionally with dark (black or maroon) painted posts.  The white is some views looks a bit darker, and has either weathered or was painted in the pale cream colour used on buildings.  Further away from passengers, such as in goods yards, the timber is dark, probably only treated and not painted.

In a few places the LBSC built a trellis fence, similar to the familiar Midland style.

I suspect that, due to the difficulty of actually painting the timber, they were made of treated wood. They always look dark, and I used black on my Fittleworth layout. I don't know when creosote came into use, so perhaps there was some other treatment that was used which resulted in a dark colour.

Iron spear fencing was, mainly, painted in a dark colour.  I can only guess that it would have been black, or perhaps municipal dark green in places such as crossing Wandsworth Common. Building maroon is always another possibility, and all would appear similar shade in black and white photos.

Cast iron posts, with a single metal rail, such as on bridge parapets, seems to have been white.

The four bar lineside fencing was probably plain timber, as was close boarded feather-edge fencing, although sometimes, close to stations, they might be painted white. 

The timber fence that involves a heavy top rail, at 45°, in a notch in the top of the post, often used on the side of roads on the incline to road overbridges in otherwise flat areas, seem to have been white, with perhaps black ironwork. 

Staircase handrails on signalboxes seem to have come in almost any colour, between black and white, presumably at the whim of the painter!

Hedges were a  common feature of the LBSC lineside, and they would have been in Improved Engine Green or Goods Green, depending on season.

(Photos of Ratio examples taken from the Gaugemaster website)