Castle Aching

[Caley Jim]

Radio control seems so much easier!

Where's the 'hmmph' button when you need it!  I've enough bother finding space for a decoder in a 2mm loco, let alone a receiver and batteries!!  

 

Jim

[BG John]

Where's the 'hmmph' button when you need it!  I've enough bother finding space for a decoder in a 2mm loco, let alone a receiver and batteries!!  

 

Jim

Other people have managed it . Anyway, Castle Aching is 4mm scale!

[Compound2632]

Other people have managed it .

 

In a 0-4-2?

[Edwardian]

John models the One True Gauge, so he has vastly more width to play with!

[Adams442T]

In Cambridge, the cold wind blows in from the east, right across the Baltic and the North Sea, picking up moisture which turns to snow. It starts in the Ural mountains, and in the 30s they used to say the politics came with it...

 

As an old cycling friend of mine invariably says, "That wind in Lincolnshire comes straight off the Russian Urinals.........."

[Donw]

Use droppers but extend them out to the front. I would then connect them up at the front . This can be covered with a fascia with access holes where there are connections ( best to group them together ) covers can be fitted to hide the wires and connections. That way you could get to the wires if you really need to but mostly you can access them at the front. Should a dropper fail and cannot be re-soldered (e.g. wire pulled through) I drill a hole adjacent and behind the rail then pass a new wire through and solder it up using a mirror if the layout is against a wall.

    The dropper holes do need sealing to keep the PVA  from dripping through when ballasting. I find decorators caulk in a sealant gun very useful for such jobs although a finger makes a useful spatula to ensure it is sealed. Placing carboard intended for the recyling bin underneath i a useful precaution in case you miss any

 

 

Radio control seems so much easier!

 

Oh yes faffing about re-charging batteries which is never ending beats doing the wiring correctly once.  Actually it depends on the amount of wiring that would be required for your layout compared with how many locos need fitting with radio control. My live steamers use radio control but until recently battery and motor technology hadn't really been up to the job for electric driven small trains. Also so far each steamers has its own radio control which wouldn;t help on a busy indoor layout.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Waaay off topic again, but ......

 

I've got 16mm/ft locos with rechargeable batteries, and they are a bit of a pfaff, the biggest issue being not to forget to charge them if unused for a long time, because if the cells self-discharge very deeply, it is quite a nursing exercise to get them back up again.

 

The system that seems to combine the best of both worlds for an indoor layout, where it isn't hard to maintain connectivity with the track, is the Lionel "Lionchief", which uses a fixed voltage on the track (ac or dc, up to 20V), but has a PWM controller on board the loco, and a 2.4GHz wireless remote with which to control it. This set up gives the convenience of a wireless remote, without the need to get into charging traction batteries. The small battery in the remote lasts absolutely ages, so we use a Duracell 'one shot' for that.

 

The Lionel system isn't DCC, it's the same as is used for controlling battery locos, flying models, battery toy cars etc, but instead of a battery, it gets 'juice' from the track.

[BG John]

John models the One True Gauge, so he has vastly more width to play with!

Is that OO, EM, P4, BG4, O-16.5 or O? Rumours that 7mm metre gauge may also happen on day may not be entirely unfounded! 7mm broad gauge has been on my mind too .

[Edwardian]

Use droppers but extend them out to the front. I would then connect them up at the front . This can be covered with a fascia with access holes where there are connections ( best to group them together ) covers can be fitted to hide the wires and connections. That way you could get to the wires if you really need to but mostly you can access them at the front. Should a dropper fail and cannot be re-soldered (e.g. wire pulled through) I drill a hole adjacent and behind the rail then pass a new wire through and solder it up using a mirror if the layout is against a wall.

    The dropper holes do need sealing to keep the PVA  from dripping through when ballasting. I find decorators caulk in a sealant gun very useful for such jobs although a finger makes a useful spatula to ensure it is sealed. Placing carboard intended for the recyling bin underneath i a useful precaution in case you miss any

 

Don

l

Sounds like the best of both worlds and the worst of neither.

 

 

As an old cycling friend of mine invariably says, "That wind in Lincolnshire comes straight off the Russian Urinals.........."

 

Excellent.

 

Reminds me of a Jake Thackray song intro, describing a friend's mother-in-law who was prone to malapropisms.  She held up a vase, which she believed to be crystal, and pronounced "if you look through here, you can see all the colours of the rectum"!

 

 

Waaay off topic again, but ......

 

 

 

I thought we had established that this is hardly possible ....

 

 

 

they are a bit of a pfaff,

 

or a bit of a pfalz?

[corneliuslundie]

With radio control what do you do about turnouts and signals? Mechanical operation is of course possible (even a la Peter Denny if you don't want to spend money), but takes skill. And make sure you don't bury the rodding (speaks from recent experience!).

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Speaking for myself, I lean across and operate the lever on the point/signal.

 

But, I realise that is a bit 'playing with toy trains', so, seriously: radio control of trains leaves you free to choose any system, mechanical or electromechanical, of even pneumatic (seriously, some garden railway people use pneumatics), and if there is an electrical part, you can control that by direct wire, two-wire (and there are many protocols to choose from, DCC, cambus, etc), or wireless (many protocols, using many carrier systems).

 

If you make the system really complicated, you might even be allowed to join MERG.

 

I've always hankered after a properly interlocked mechanical lever frame ....... one day!

[Regularity]

If you lay them on the surface, you do what all good electricians do, and only run wires along the edge of the board, and then across it. That way you know where the wires are.

 

As for radio control being simple, I thought so too until the most recent thread in that area of the forum: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128590-deltang-rx61-22-w-please-help/

Edited December 4, 2017 by Regularity

[Regularity]

PS. If surface wiring is good enough for Trevor Nunn on Trowland, it’s good enough for me.

[nick_bastable]

John models the One True Gauge, so he has vastly more width to play with!

9.42mm per chance ?  

 

Nick

[mullie]

Hmm.  Seems to me a fine line between "circulate" and "escape"!  Our heat should circulate well, since the landlord has clearly never replaced the thin, and rather brittle, Nineteenth Century glass. We don't have double, let alone triple glazing!

 

Returning briefly to the Great Castle Aching Cork Catastrophe, I spent yesterday printing, gluing and trimming another Templot print-out. 

 

I discovered many things.  One of the things I discovered is that Pritt Stick does not stick paper to cork, but UHU does.  Another thing I discovered is that I should not use the Memsahib's cookery books to weigh things down unless I want grease spots all over them.

 

The other thing I discovered is just how distorted the Templot print had become through sticking it to the cork with PVA.  The close-up shows the new print on the board, the pencil lines the outline of the distorted version.  No wonder Don's flowing lines lost their flow and the station no longer fitted on the board!

 

I ran out of time, but have brought the second front board in, and I plan to get the cork down this weekend.  I have tried my best to edit out the Landlord's emphatic wallpaper.  It is rather distracting.

 

I might have misread this somewhere as its been a very long and trying day but I wouldn't build pointwork on cork. Use the Templot template and Pritt Stick it to something absolutely flat and build it away from the layout to make sure everything is correct.

 

Martyn

[Compound2632]

Is that OO, EM, P4, BG4, O-16.5 or O? Rumours that 7mm metre gauge may also happen on day may not be entirely unfounded! 7mm broad gauge has been on my mind too .

 

Modelling GW broad gauge on 4'8 1/2" gauge track - a scale of 8"/ft - also has its possibilities...

 

Waaay off topic again, but ......

 

I've got 16mm/ft locos with rechargeable batteries, and they are a bit of a pfaff, the biggest issue being not to forget to charge them if unused for a long time, because if the cells self-discharge very deeply, it is quite a nursing exercise to get them back up again.

 

The system that seems to combine the best of both worlds for an indoor layout, where it isn't hard to maintain connectivity with the track, is the Lionel "Lionchief", which uses a fixed voltage on the track (ac or dc, up to 20V), but has a PWM controller on board the loco, and a 2.4GHz wireless remote with which to control it. This set up gives the convenience of a wireless remote, without the need to get into charging traction batteries. The small battery in the remote lasts absolutely ages, so we use a Duracell 'one shot' for that.

 

The Lionel system isn't DCC, it's the same as is used for controlling battery locos, flying models, battery toy cars etc, but instead of a battery, it gets 'juice' from the track.

 

A couple of club members have been experimenting with radio control - in 00, diesels in one case, a Collett 0-6-0 in the other. It occurs to me that one could have a "recharging" siding or section of track, which would be powered, the battery being charged via pick-ups. Is the a good technical reason why this isn't done? Or even a bi-modal system?

[BG John]

Modelling GW broad gauge on 4'8 1/2" gauge track - a scale of 8"/ft - also has its possibilities...

 

I suspect that the weight of it would make most people's baseboards collapse though

 

A couple of club members have been experimenting with radio control - in 00, diesels in one case, a Collett 0-6-0 in the other. It occurs to me that one could have a "recharging" siding or section of track, which would be powered, the battery being charged via pick-ups. Is the a good technical reason why this isn't done? Or even a bi-modal system?

We're experimenting with it here too. See the Radio Control Forum. I haven't got it working yet, but Robin2 has.

Edited December 4, 2017 by BG John

[Nearholmer]

Compound,

 

You want to put a Diesel driven alternator on a 00 train? You do know that the physics of the internal combustion engine doesn't scale? How about a working Heilman steam-electric in H0?

 

Yes, you could have a "charging siding", maybe using a couple of wiper contacts, or perhaps using induction-charging, like a tooth brush, or run the battery in parallel across the track (commonly done with on-board capacitors, of course), but the second of these sounds slightly like a way of combining all the worst features of both, to me.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Nearholmer

[BG John]

I'm waiting until I get something working before I worry about battery charging. Depending on battery life, I may need some system like a section of live rail or inductive charging, but manually plugging in a cable, or even swapping batteries, may be perfectly adequate. The radio system I'm using is bidirectional, so the loco should be able to tell me when it's getting hungry.

[Regularity]

Aha. Henry the inductance-measuring engine!

Edited December 4, 2017 by Regularity

[Donw]

If you lay them on the surface, you do what all good electricians do, and only run wires along the edge of the board, and then across it. That way you know where the wires are.

 

As for radio control being simple, I thought so too until the most recent thread in that area of the forum: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128590-deltang-rx61-22-w-please-help/

 

 

PS. If surface wiring is good enough for Trevor Nunn on Trowland, it’s good enough for me.

 

Wires failing seem generally less of a problem with house supplies and access to the ends at sockets etc. or the consumer unit is good. Less so with model railways if the dropper is soldered to the underside of the rail on ballasted and weathered track getting in to re-solder it is not so easy. If you do have to dig out a wire in the house it wil be replastered over and the wall re-painted because it has to be fixed whereas on a layout the propect of digging up the scenery then trying to repair the damage often seems to put people off it never seems quite the same. Just fitting in a new dropper can be a lot easier. I have a similar issue with mechanisms to operate the turnouts although I have used brass rod in plastruct tubing on the surface but using straight runs so if it gets gunged up during the scenification there is a chance of clearing it. It does seem appropriate to mention as well as blocking the dropper holes one also needs to block up anything else where you dont want PVA or other stuff to get including the tiebar area. Blue tack and Masking tape are your friends for that task.

 

I am minded that my Sister's house has recently been diagnosed with Sticky Wires green goo in the sockets resulting in a total rewire needed. Naturally the new cables couldn't be pulled through the channels so all the runs had to be chased out and replastered afterwards. They had to move out temporary and have just finished re-decorating the whole house. Pretty disastrous really. I have no idea of the cost either.

 

Don

Edited December 4, 2017 by Donw

[Tom Burnham]

In Cambridge, the cold wind blows in from the east, right across the Baltic and the North Sea, picking up moisture which turns to snow. It starts in the Ural mountains, and in the 30s they used to say the politics came with it...

It was actually nice and sunny there today.  However, they were filming "Red Joan" (about a Soviet spy) in Trinity Street, so perhaps that confirms the last part...  There were plenty of extras in 30s clothes, but not Edwardian, I'm afraid.

[St Enodoc]

"Then he nailed right through a cable

POP

And out went all the lights!"

Oh, it all makes work for the working man to do.

 

Or:

 

Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light

Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!

It is the business of the wealthy man

To give employment to the artisan.

 

Hilaire Belloc

Edited December 5, 2017 by St Enodoc

[Donw]

My Father in Law phoned one day to say he needed help as the Circuit Breaker had tripped and the electricity was off. I got there to find that he had drilled  to fix a picture directly above a socket outlet and tripped the ELCB. The supply was overhead and had a large Circuit Breaker before the fuse box because there was no earth with the supply cables. He was ranting and moaning because he could have a cup of tea or his dinner and NO TV!  I tried to explain that without the Circuit Breaker he might have been dead I think he would have taken the risk rather than the inconvenience. Modern split load units or RCBOs would of course keep some power available.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

Some very helpful tips on wiring, many thanks.

 

DonW and the trials of electricity!  The lights have gone on our outdoor/out-buildings circuit.  Sockets still work, but one bulb pinged off and the lot went down.  Cannot work out why.  Cannot work out how to take the cover off the exterior light to change the bulb.  No tripped switches. ? 

 

If I ever have a working layout, it will have to be operated by candle light!

 

Flanders & Swann & Cautionary Tales, I do like it here, it's so civilised!