Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Hence "so circa 1/56"

 

Wargamers do not feel the need for precision the same way we do.

 

Possibly it's 1:56 scale, so circa 5.5mm, but it's hard to know with warhgames "scales"!

 

Apropos Nearholmer's reminder about measuring to the eyes, I think that the convention derives from the fact that military types tend to be wearing some sort of head gear of varying heights, so the measurement from the soles of the feet to the eyes is a more reliable way to scale a figure than guessing where the top of the head sits.

 

I believe 28mm is an official recognition, codification if one likes, of the"scale creep" that had caused figures notionally of the once prevalent 25mm to be sculpted ever larger over time. Imagine if we did that? OO would be EM by now. 

 

I have never played a wargame, but, pace Nearholmer, I am interested in military history and quite like figure and terrain modelling as an extension of that.

 

So, to see a Grouping era wargame set in Blighty, there is a game called A very British Civil War, set, I believe, in the late '30s. Here is a 28mm scale game depicting a fight between, I think,of all things the Anglican Alliance (yes, the Church Militant!) and the BUF. Interesting to see a wargamers' take on what is more traditionally an railway modellers' subject.

 

 

 

  

 

[ChrisN]

12 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Possibly it's 1:56 scale, so circa 5.5mm, but it's hard to know with warhgames "scales"!

 

Apropos Nearholmer's reminder about measuring to the eyes, I think that the convention derives from the fact that military types tend to be wearing some sort of head gear of varying heights, so the measurement from the soles of the feet to the eyes is a more reliable way to scale a figure than guessing where the top of the head sits.

 

I believe 28mm is an official recognition, codification if one likes, of the"scale creep" that had caused figures notionally of the once prevalent 25mm to be sculpted ever larger over time. Imagine if we did that? OO would be EM by now. 

 

I have never played a wargame, but, pace Nearholmer, I am interested in military history and quite like figure and terrain modelling as an extension of that.

 

So, to see a Grouping era wargame set in Blighty, there is a game called A very British Civil War, set, I believe, in the late '30s. Here is a 28mm scale game depicting a fight between, I think,of all things the Anglican Alliance (yes, the Church Militant!) and the BUF. Interesting to see a wargamers' take on what is more traditionally an railway modellers' subject.

 

 

 

  

 

 

They may not be too concerned about scale, but they are about painting.  Someone once said, (*citation needed), that wargamers cared about their figures but were not too bothered about their buildings, whereas railway modellers cared about their buildings, but were not too concerned about their figures.  I can understand this as wargamers buildings are their for cover, firing platforms, defensive structures.  It is better not to have panes in the windows to allow your guns to poke out.  I think some of those buildings do not have glass in the windows.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

whereas railway modellers cared about their buildings, but were not too concerned about their figures. 

 

Search "shed" in "The Night Mail" topic, you'll see how true the first half of that is; as for the second half, I refer you to any model railway exhibition.

 

Are wargamers a particularly svelte lot?

[Schooner]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah yes, the good old Airfix "00/H0 scale"!

 

If only! 

 

[Nearholmer]

28 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Are wargamers a particularly svelte lot?

I can only judge by the fantasy wargame conclaves that operate round a big green table in the shop where I sometimes buy paints (with bizarre colour names), and the seem to come in two shapes: rat-tail; and, chair-crushing.

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, Schooner said:

If only! 

 

00 scale is acceptable, to my mind, since the term defines both scale (4 mm/ft) and, if the model is an item of rolling stock, gauge (16.5 mm).

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I can only judge by the fantasy wargame conclaves that operate round a big green table in the shop where I sometimes buy paints (with bizarre colour names), and the seem to come in two shapes: rat-tail; and, chair-crushing.

 

Well, there's the Games Workshop aka Warhammer fraternity, which I tend to view as essentially similar to any other trapped, deluded and abused cult membership entirely denuded of agency and independent thought, though at least less likely to be stormed and slaughtered by the Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco & Firearms.   

 

Then there's everyone else.

 

I am minded to have a go at warganming, having cottoned on to the very simple and easy (relative to wargames rules) Lion Rampant (Mediaeval) and Dragon Rampant (Fantasy). Miss T would like to try D&D but we don't know enough people who want to. I might persuade her to try Dragon Rampant with a setting from her own creative output.   

 

Apropos things Mediaeval, I think the classic look is that of the early Fourteenth Century knight. It's a century where changes in armour accelerate until it's a new look for the top echelons every decade. The early decades have that visually satisfying combination of mail hauberks and long surcoats with great helms and some leg and arm arplate armour, heater shields etc. It's often the style seen in ahistorical depictions of Arthurian legend. 

 

 

 

Anyway, this set up is a game of an historic event, the seige of Hennebont in 1342. Hennebont is in Brittany. According to Wiki, the siege of Hennebont of 1342 was an episode of the War of the Breton Succession. The forces of Charles of Blois kept Jeanne of Flandre in the city, while they waited for English reinforcements. The arrival of these reinforcements in June 1342 provoked the lifting of the siege. The table and the figures are gorgeous, the heraldry hand-painted, including the sail on the ship. In the pictures, the English have disembarked from their ships and formed up to oppose the beseiging French. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, as this topic attests, I like castles!  The one I have used in my town model is loosely based on Orford (see merman).

 

Anyway, the Hennebont game was great inspiration for my Mediaeval town project.

 

  

Edited October 18, 2023 by Edwardian

[RedGemAlchemist]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

the seem to come in two shapes: rat-tail; and, chair-crushing.

Funny, I'm neither. Guess I'm the exception to the rule?

 

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Well, there's the Games Workshop aka Warhammer fraternity, which I tend to view as essentially similar to any other trapped, deluded and abused cult membership entirely denuded of agency and independent thought, though at least less likely to be stormed and slaughtered by the Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco & Firearms.   

As a fan of Warhammer 40k myself, I kind of take exception to that. I'd have hoped you knew me better than that by now.

Edited October 18, 2023 by RedGemAlchemist

[ChrisN]

My sons did, and still do not fit any of the above stereotypes.  One still has a Warhammer army, Eldar(?), no another one.

 

When playing wargames, as he taught me to my cost, it is not real life military strategy that is important, it is game play.  He is very difficult to beat, although not impossible if you have overwhelming forces.  (Still makes a mess of you though.)

 

Those mediaeval figures are just gorgeous. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by ChrisN

[Edwardian]

Very much an unfan of the Beast of Lenton. I have nothing but sympathy for its cult members. But trapped they most certainly are. You know it's not possible to hold intellectual property in game mechanics, so, even assuming Warhammer was the best set of rules out there, there is nothing in the rules themselves that cannot be reproduced. There are equivalent miniatures, often better than GW's and certainly much, much better value for money. There are other games in the same genres and other rule sets and miniatures. Often other rules are supported by a line of miniatures or terrain, but no one forces you to use them, except the Lenton Wyrm, which locks you in like a Branch Davidian.

 

Really, in player exploitation terms, the only difference between GW's myriad ways to get people to spend evermore hard-earned on evermore expensive and poor value plastic-crack and a gambling company is that gambling companies sometimes offer punters something for free. 

 

I get that, like the Jesuits, they work by hooking people in at an early age. I also get that Stockholm Syndrome sufferers never have anything bad to say about their kidnappers.

 

Apart from the chance to spend more time with the talkative guy in the shop with his unfortunate manner, relentlessly intrusive conversation, inability to respect personal space and indifferent personal hygiene, I'm really not sure what 'The Hobby' has to offer that I could not find elsewhere with more creative freedom, more choice much more cheaply, but, then hyper- competative gameplay is, for some of us, to miss much of the joy of genteel tabletop pursuits.  

 

So, sorry, but unrepentent on the subject.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Edwardian

[Annie]

I still remember the time I showed the staff in a Games Workshop store a couple of my very nicely painted Ral Partha figures and judging by the expressions on their faces it was almost as if I was inviting them to enter into the gates of hell.   They didn't quite go as far as throwing me out, but did emphasise that I couldn't use them in any game played within the store's hallowed walls.

I had little liking for their expensive plastic figures and mostly collected the vintage Citadel metal figures from the days before they started calling themselves 'Games Workshop'.  Most of those older figures were lovely characterful pieces and to my mind much considerably better than the plastic figures.

[Schooner]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

00 scale is acceptable, to my mind, since the term defines both scale (4 mm/ft) and, if the model is an item of rolling stock, gauge (16.5 mm).

Briefly, cos this is dull but possibly useful and the thread is going much lovelier places, it's not the term I object to. It's the (excellent) 1:87 items sold as 1:76 items for best part of £100 a pop. 

 

James, that looks utterly glorious - more please :) 

[Edwardian]

7 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

James, that looks utterly glorious - more please :) 

 

I don't go to many shows, and these have all been model railway exhibitions.

 

When my son was much younger, and into such things, many years ago, I took him to two wargames shows. One was at Excel. Excel is a silly place that is spectacularly inconvenient for everyone. The show was huge and overwhelming. A wargames Warley. Too big to enjoy. The other one was Partizan, which was in a mad gothic country house/monastry near Newark, which was huge fun.

 

I think Partizan is a Spring event, but there is a 1-day "The Other Parizan" event in the Autumn. On a whim I went to this a week or so ago. These days it's in a souless 'events space' at the Newark showground.

 

Only the third wargames event I've been to in my life and a first for Miss T, but it was novel and made for a good day out. Neither of us play, but we appreciated the beauty and art of the various demonstration games exhibited. It's really moved on since the green cloth gaming of the 1970s.  I loved the modelling and I can see me wanting something like a bi-annual fix of this kind of thing.

 

Civil War seige ofd Stokesay (28mm). 

 

 

 

 

 

WW1 Eastern Front (20mm)

 

Russian Civil War (28mm)

 

Anglo-Zulu War (28mm)

 

The legendary Perry Bros Franco-Prussian 'Valour & Fortitude' game (28mm)

 

 

 

That's all I have time to post this time .....

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

So, break for elevenses.....

 

And back to 'A Very British Civil War' (28mm)

 

 

Soon we must return to war when, to paraphrase young Winston, it was cruel but magnificent. Here, though, we have a 1918 Western Front game (28mm), when war was most definately cruel and squalid.  

 

 

 

Some Nineteenth Century Russian Imperialism - plus ca change  - in this case against the Turks (28mm)

 

 

Elizabethan Ireland (I think), which, again casts a long shadow (28mm)

 

Things occasionally got really, really small. In this case, on D-Day

 

Meanwhile, in Lincolnshire, a seconfd 28mm foray into the Civil War...

 

Is that teased-out carpet underlay?

 

 

Can't remember what this one (28mm) is, but it's kind of moorish...

 

 

This brought a smile to my face: Giant Risk!

 

 

Gangs of Rome (28mm). This is an example of a game with a dedicated figure range. For buildings it is supported by a dedicated range from a terrain manufacturer, the same one tat supplied my half-timbered houses.

 

For those, like me, who enjoyed Rogue One:

 

Eighteenth Century Mughal India (28mm). I remember climbing up to fortress palaces like this one, with elephant spikes on the doors.

 

 

[Donw]

Lets face it if your main interest is being able to beat others at the wargame, nicely detailed figures and top class scenery may not be relevant to you. Rather like CJF comment about signalling enthusiast not caring about the trains as long as they obeyed the signals, I could why you dont care if your army is cheap plastic as long as they win.

However from photos I have seen there are some very skilled modellers among the wargamers to whom the quality of the modelling is important. 

Now it is many years since  I played with toy soldiers and I have no idea whether the rules I used are anything like they use. Besides I was usually playing both sides and was probably not impartial. But that sort of game has morphed into model railway operation where operating in a realistic manner is equally important to the visual side.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

You know, the big advantages wargamers have is the span of history and geography open to them. Some utterly fascinating stuff in those elevenses pictures, and one can only envy them the freedom to choose very, very, very pre-grouping themes.

[Schooner]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Russian Civil War (2028)

Fixed the typo.

 

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The legendary Perry Bros Franco-Prussian 'Valour & Fortitude' game (28mm)

 

Ah-ha, our Rosetta!

 

Quite.

 

So far so enthralling, must look into this brave old world. However, I seem to be picking up an additional hobby a month recently so it'll have to be vicariously for now. Please do keep us up to date with developments in your other other (other?) getaway world :)

[monkeysarefun]

 

 

YOu folk in the  UK  don't realise how lucky you are   to  have inherited such a rich history of top  quality brutal conflicts spanning  so many ages to be able to  pick and choose from in order to  recreate them  in  wargaming  form.

 

In contrast, all   we really have  here is Mad Max 2

 

 

And The Great Emu War Of 1932.

 

 

 

 

 

Also,  I dont understand whats gone wrong with Games Workshop up there because down here all their  clientele  look almost exactly like this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Donw]

a bit unfair of the Emus to adopt guerrilla tactics.

 

Don

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, Donw said:

a bit unfair of the Emus to adopt guerrilla tactics.

 

Must have picked them up from their cousins on the former SR lines - I'm always taken by surprise by their random comings and goings.

[Edwardian]

6 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

YOu folk in the  UK  don't realise how lucky you are   to  have inherited such a rich history of top  quality brutal conflicts spanning  so many ages to be able to  pick and choose from in order to  recreate them  in  wargaming  form.

 

In contrast, all   we really have  here is Mad Max 2

 

 

And The Great Emu War Of 1932.

 

 

 

 

 

Also,  I dont understand whats gone wrong with Games Workshop up there because down here all their  clientele  look almost exactly like this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if anyone had looked like that in a Games Workshop shop game (and it was 30 plus years ago), I'd be there showing them my Space Marines for sure!

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Well, that has taken me back! I used to be massively into A Very British Civil War.
11 years ago a bunch of us who lived in Worcestershire and Herefordshire did a game scenario based on trying to capture Woofferton Junction from the BUF.
I'm so pleased to see AVBCW again after all these years 🙂

[Nearholmer]

Just out of interest, which side is King Edward VIII on in this civil war? Does he toss a coin at the start to decide whether he’s going with his personal instincts, or with his duty as supreme governor of the CoE? Or, is he the catalyst for the whole disaster?

[Fair Oak Junction]

This description from a wargaming website sums it up well:

 

The aesthetic of the game was heavily inspired by the 1995 Ian McKellen Richard III film.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Obsidian Quarry

[Edwardian]

So, by way of a finale, I will offer a last set of pictures, with apologies to all the fine folk who come here for trains!

 

First, winter is coming. A fantasy set up heavily inspired by a certain TV series...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then returning to the glory that was the seige of Hennebont game:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you all for indulging me.