Castle Aching

[Caley Jim]

While we are still on the subject of signalling,and before we get side-tracked onto more esoteric subjects, 'Signalling The Caledonian Railway' by Jim Summers http://www.crassoc.org.uk/web/node/94 gives a detailed account of the development of the principles of British signalling practice.  Jim was an S & T engineer, so writes with authority.

 

Jim (W)

[Northroader]

Whilst you're whooping it up, here's some ancient signals for your return.

[Nearholmer]

And, I found a picture of the one I saw at Castletown IoM http://www.flickriver.com/photos/trolleyfan/11590336705/

 

And, this site, which is huge and fascinating, has a good section on the history of railway telegraphy http://distantwriting.co.uk/railwaysignaltelegaphy.html (although I think the description of the way the Norwich and Yarmouth instrument was used may be amiss).

 

And, and, this has a cornucopia of early signals http://www.railsigns.uk/sect1page1/sect1page1.html

 

But, to get an understanding of the entire working systems that were applied, the combination of software (rules followed by people), and hardware, I fear that it might be necessary to join either the Institution of Railway Signalling Engineers, or the Signalling Record Society, probably the latter.

 

I haven't read 'Red for Danger' for a few years, so I can't remember how much detail Rolt goes into about these early systems (except "time interval", which I do remember he goes into in describing the Clayton Tunnel smash) ........ I've got a long, boring boat ride on Monday, so I know what to pack!

 

Kevin

Edited May 27, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

Whilst you're whooping it up, here's some ancient signals for your return.IMG_1054.JPGIMG_1053.JPGIMG_1052.JPG

 

I wouldn't describe either Bournville or Burton-on-Trent as remote...

Edited May 27, 2017 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

Ancient, not remote. Thankfully, I'd regard both those places as being in the epicentre for the supply of delights necessary for civilisation, with a nice bit of railway thrown in.

Wish I was coming with you, Kevin.

[Nearholmer]

You don't know where I'm going, do you?

[St Enodoc]

You don't know where I'm going, do you?

No but as long as you and/or the captain do all should be well.

 

Basic rules:

 

1. Port is left.

2. Starboard is right.

3. Pointy end first.

4. Keep off the grass.

[Donw]

Signaling is one of those things where the elements involved and the principles are fairly simple but it builds up to something complex. Initially there was no telegraph system, so on a double track system the practice was to allow a time interval after a train left before another one could go. On single track lines where there was no means of comunication between the two ends the Train Staff resolved the issue you could only go into the section if you had permission by holding the staff. This is still used as a principle although the physical staff may be a radio transmitted token. Provided there is only one token issued at a time it maintains the same integrity.

The first signals were simple stop go devices the red disc showing meant stop turned so the driver could only see the edge allowed him to proceed. The typical semaphores were an arm showing meant stop if the arm dropped into a slot in the post a driver could proceed. I think these were abandoned because of troubles with the arm sticking in the slot with heavy snow.

Confusingly there are also things known as slotted signals which are where the arm needs to be released by levers being pulled in two signal cabins.

These early systems of time interval were obviously not inherrently safe as a train proceeding into a section did not know whether a train or just a detached vehicle would be around the corner. The absolute block system ensured only one train would be in a section at any one time and the tail lamp ensured the train was complete and hadn't left a vehicle behind. Well at least it ensured it was safe provided no errors were made. Abermule in 1921 showed how lax working by railwaymen could override the safety with tragic results. In a way the safety of the absolute block system had led to a a lack of care. Under the time interval scheme a driver would be a lot more wary. At Abermule a Driver neglected to check the tablet he had been handed had he done so he would have realised he had been handed the wrong one in fact it was the one he had given up for the section he had come from. the one for the forward section was still will the train mid section.

 

Interesting though I find this on most model railways it is not necessary to go to these lengths. I do think working signals add much to a layout.

Don

[uax6]

The lax working by staff was one of the reasons that the grouping companies started to replace alternate tablet machines with different types, so that you would get a tablet disc for one section, and the next section would be a key token. It was hoped that the crew would be awake enough to realise that something was wrong if they got the same type back....

 

Andy G

[corneliuslundie]

If you are looking to recruit poets as station masters I think the one from Caersws was redundant by that time. (He was John Ceiriog Hughes. Unfortunately not only as he redundant in 1905, but he was also dead))

Regarding the 440 yards, it was often reduced in busy locations. I gather there are hardly any overlaps in places at Birmingham NS, which causes difficulties when they want to change the layout and stick to the current rules.

Jonathan

[Northroader]

You don't know where I'm going, do you?

You were asking about Tralee and the Lartigue on another thread. Still, I've been posting pictures of pippa's bum, and that won't happen either.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Northroader

[Nearholmer]

Cornelius

 

On the met/district, trains were operated "separated by the thickness of a stick"; I've got a c1910 electrification text book that shows 40tph in each direction being worked through the flat junctions on the circle, under semaphore and steam, as an illustration of why they'd moved on to track circuits and electric traction.

 

Kevin

[Edwardian]

Fascinating stuff, this signalling and single line working.

 

Yes, we might end up with quite a busy terminus relative to its relatively sparse trackage.

 

Herewith a reminder of the proposed track layout, but with the relative position of the level crossing marked.  I have in mind a photograph that I have in a book somewhere (but which I cannot now locate) of an antiquated signal at a level crossing on the former Stockton &  Darlington, IIRC.

 

Now, yesterday was a late evening.  The Mem and I are quite "tired".  Today is rather subdued and sedate.

 

However, I thought I should report on a delightful evening and relay the happy discovery that the Ball had an Alice in Wonderland theme, and that each table was named for a character from the books.  I was rather pleased to find that our party had Dodo table!

 

[Edwardian]

The problem end of the village has at last started to take shape.  It's not finished, and the buildings need to be bedded in, but it gives a good general impression.  I apologise for the slightly repetitious photographs, but one of the problems with perspective modelling, I find, is that it is difficult to 'get away with it' from more than one viewpoint, so it is necessary to consider the composition from all likely points of view.

 

    

[Clearwater]

Per your comments on another thread, I assume you didn't make Railex. However, this poster reminded me of your threads...

David[apols for angle as can't work out rotating pics!]

 

 

 

 

[mullie]

The problem end of the village has at last started to take shape.  It's not finished, and the buildings need to be bedded in, but it gives a good general impression.  I apologise for the slightly repetitious photographs, but one of the problems with perspective modelling, I find, is that it is difficult to 'get away with it' from more than one viewpoint, so it is necessary to consider the composition from all likely points of view.

Looks really good, think I've been there!

[Donw]

The problem end of the village has at last started to take shape.  It's not finished, and the buildings need to be bedded in, but it gives a good general impression.  I apologise for the slightly repetitious photographs, but one of the problems with perspective modelling, I find, is that it is difficult to 'get away with it' from more than one viewpoint, so it is necessary to consider the composition from all likely points of view.

 

Excellent. Although the wide ranging discussion are good this is the real draw of CA wonderful character buildings combined with an artistic flair for composition. My compliments sir.

 

Don

[nick_bastable]

the village comes to life

 

I like this a lot well done 

 

Nick

[Nearholmer]

For a man who is slightly "tired", you've a good deal of talent.

 

Kevin

[Shadow]

I was just looking back through some old photo's and came across these of Totnes layout. 

 

Reminded me of CA. (Click for larger images!)

 

 

edit :- some more details here http://www.uckfieldmrc.co.uk/exhib12/totnes.html

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Shadow

[Edwardian]

I was just looking back through some old photo's and came across these of Totnes layout. 

 

Reminded me of CA. (Click for larger images!)

 

 

edit :- some more details here http://www.uckfieldmrc.co.uk/exhib12/totnes.html

 

DSC02189.JPG

 

DSC02190.JPG

 

DSC02194.JPG

 

A very finely modelled scene, indeed.  The tones of the buildings a very subtle.  It would be an impressive feat of modelling even in 4mm, but in 2mm even more so.

 

Thanks for the pictures.

[Poggy1165]

One of those Midland cross-bar signals survived at Barnoldswick, possibly until it closed.

 

Barnoldswick was a funny sort of station. The site was divided by a level crossing, which the cross-bar signal protected. The passenger station and much of the goods yard was on the "main line" side of this crossing - the line ended in a set of coal sidings on the far side.

 

As an aside, I always think Barnoldswick would have made an interesting model, and had I been infected by the Midland disease, I might well have been tempted. 

 

One of the photos on the Disused Stations site shows the cross-bar signal was still there in 1965, the year of closure.

[runs as required]

Returning after quite a few weeks 'out', I'm delighted to view the developments that have taken place on this thread

If you are looking to recruit poets as station masters I think the one from Caersws was redundant by that time. (He was John Ceiriog Hughes. Unfortunately not only as he redundant in 1905, but he was also dead))

.....

Jonathan

 

Not a poet exactly, but the station master at Gorleston on sea, in 1961/62, I discovered to be a world expert in deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphics for the British Museum.

He was gracious enough to shew me this work when I was a raw young architect charged with the bruising insertion of a new ‘standard’ glass faced ticket office front to the ticket issuing machine replacing the traditional Edmonson ticket equipment into his vaguely ‘arts and crafts’ Edwardian station on the Norfolk and Suffolk Joint.

 

Greeting me off the DMU from Ipswich, the Station Master gently corrected me about the labeling on my draft drawings.

He explained that I’d just alighted from Liverpool Street on his up platform. For Gorleston still addressed Kings Cross northwards via Kings Lynn and the long closed M&GN.

Over lunch with his wife, I learned how the station master had joined the LNER at Glossop station in the 1920s as a lad straight from the very school my wife taught at before leaving a few weeks before to marry me and move down to London.

 

Does anyone know how/where to find the names of past station masters?  I'd very much like to rediscover his name again.

 

dh

[Edwardian]

Ah, the Norfolk & Suffolk Joint!

 

Welcome back, David, and here's a bit of nostalgia for you courtesy of Wiki:

Edited May 31, 2017 by Edwardian

[Shadow]

Some sites here that might help! Or might not!

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1795909

 

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/railway-workers/

 

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=ukrailway&gss=sfs28_ms_db&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gskw=Gorleston&MSAV=1&MSV=0&uidh=000