Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

Another Americanism dragged in by me, I’m afraid, to add to the debate I provoked by using the word “car” in another thread.

 

After a life of EMUs ( Rod Hull Syndrome?), I’m not entirely sure what the proper English term for a train composed of non-uniform vehicles is. ‘Rake’ is, I think, another Americanism, and implies uniformity. Composition? I’d swear blind I’ve never heard that used on a real railway. ‘Marshalling’, a verb, rather than a noun? ‘Make-up’, certainly used on real railways.

 

Views?

 

From perusal of various Midland Railway Carriage Marshalling books from c. 1910-1915 in the collection of the Midland Railway Study Centre, I'm forced to the conclusion that the word in use was "train". (Sections of a train for different destinations or re-marshalled en-route were "portions".) Perhaps we're forgetting that well-known classic opening line: "Once, an engine attached to a train..." - there was a time when the locomotive was always a separate entity from that which it pulled.

[Nearholmer]

Edwardian,

 

Formation sounds good enough.

 

It’s getting to the point in our house where I can now ask my Gove-ificated son questions like this, but how does a word that can be used as either a noun, a verb, an adverb etc get to that point? Presumably by starting as one or the other, being ‘misused’, and then that misuse becoming accepted use.

 

I must be in a dark mood, because the example I keep thinking of is ‘bludgeon’, which sounds as if it started as a noun, describing the archetypal blunt instrument, the ‘blood john’.

 

The study of insects never was my strong point.

 

Compound

 

Yes, you’re probably right. I kept thinking of the French “rame”, which very definitely means the vehicles being hauled, and doesn’t include the locomotive, the entire thing would be “train”. But, if you look in a French-English dictionary I think you will find both translated as “train”.

 

K

Edited February 22, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

On chocolate blocks, a club layout were building uses them - I didn't take that decision but did do the wiring - one big advantage is that it's fairly straightforward to correct mistakes and, indeed, to make repairs. We also make use of plug-in terminal blocks, which are basically chocolate blocks with a copper dowel - these make for simple and robust connections between baseboards and between baseboard and controller. 

 

I am quite taken with the idea of modelling the Circle Line, with all the wiring readily accessible as part of the scenery.

[Edwardian]

From perusal of various Midland Railway Carriage Marshalling books from c. 1910-1915 in the collection of the Midland Railway Study Centre, I'm forced to the conclusion that the word in use was "train". (Sections of a train for different destinations or re-marshalled en-route were "portions".) Perhaps we're forgetting that well-known classic opening line: "Once, an engine attached to a train..." - there was a time when the locomotive was always a separate entity from that which it pulled.

 

Edwardian,

 

Formation sounds good enough.

 

It’s getting to the point in our house where I can now ask my Gove-ificated son questions like this, but how does a word that can be used as either a noun, a verb, an adverb etc get to that point? Presumably by starting as one or the other, being ‘misused’, and then that misuse becoming accepted use.

 

I must be in a dark mood, because the example I keep thinking of is ‘bludgeon’, which sounds as if it started as a noun, describing the archetypal blunt instrument, the ‘blood john’.

 

The study of insects never was my strong point.

 

Compound

 

Yes, you’re probably right. I kept thinking of the French “rame”, which very definitely means the vehicles being hauled, and doesn’t include the locomotive, the entire thing would be “train”. But, if you look in a French-English dictionary I think you will find both translated as “train”.

 

K

 

 

Probably quite wrongly, but I do think of trains made up of portions, but "formation" seems to me to be a handy word to describe the knowing of what types of vehicles formed a train or portion, and in what order they were formed.  This includes the knowing of how the portions were formed into the train.

 

I am not, of course, a remotely reliable source of information.

 

Years of training at the Bar (and in Bars) has encouraged me to sound as if I am, however. 

[Nearholmer]

If you want to give your model railway the real “pro” look, and spend all your pocket-money for life in the process, you will enjoy reading every page of this http://www.ourdoconline.com/lpcp/1SNC160034C02/mobile/index.html#p=20

[Regularity]

At this period the vans would be unfitted, so speeds would be low.

 

How low exactly do you think that was?

They were often fitted with screw link couplings, to reduce injuries to the cattle - for which the railway was liable - but as a through freight not needing to stop, it could get up to a reasonable speed, say 30 something miles an hour.

Interesting question about changing the wagons at a watering stop. I suspect not - the wagons need to be shunted and swapped, paperwork transferred and the fresh wagons need to have been cleaned in advance, which is an extra cost for the supplying company. But I suspect not.

 

Does anyone know?

[Compound2632]

How low exactly do you think that was?

They were often fitted with screw link couplings, to reduce injuries to the cattle - for which the railway was liable - but as a through freight not needing to stop, it could get up to a reasonable speed, say 30 something miles an hour.

Interesting question about changing the wagons at a watering stop. I suspect not - the wagons need to be shunted and swapped, paperwork transferred and the fresh wagons need to have been cleaned in advance, which is an extra cost for the supplying company. But I suspect not.

 

Does anyone know?

 

He's the Transit of Animals Order 1927 as a starting point form which to work backwards. It's mostly concerned with standards of cleaning and frequency of watering etc. rather than total length of journey. I am particularly touched by the regulations for conveyance of shorn sheep during the winter months - at sea, they should not be on open or exposed decks, by rail, the sides of the wagon should be covered with tarpaulins to protect them from the weather but without obstructing ventilation - there's a modelling challenge.

 

Looks like we have to go right back to the Diseases of Animals Act 1894. EDIT: I've had a brief look through that and only section 23 is relevant and again that's only about the adequacy and frequency of watering. We need a legal expert to look into this...

Edited February 22, 2018 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

If you want to give your model railway the real “pro” look, and spend all your pocket-money for life in the process, you will enjoy reading every page of this http://www.ourdoconline.com/lpcp/1SNC160034C02/mobile/index.html#p=20

 

Poetry, it has been claimed, communicates before it is understood.

 

Terminal block catalogues (or whatever this actually is), don't.

[Hroth]

On chocolate blocks, a club layout were building uses them - I didn't take that decision but did do the wiring - one big advantage is that it's fairly straightforward to correct mistakes and, indeed, to make repairs. We also make use of plug-in terminal blocks, which are basically chocolate blocks with a copper dowel - these make for simple and robust connections between baseboards and between baseboard and controller. 

 

I am quite taken with the idea of modelling the Circle Line, with all the wiring readily accessible as part of the scenery.

I found the plug in terminal blocks a bit to flexy when trying to put them together, so was tempted by these

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMP-Superseal-Waterproof-Electrical-Connector-Kits-1-2-3-4-5-6-Way-12-24v/131583838983?hash=item1ea3020b07:m:m7aivppIO9_Cpfm6zr5AHiw

 

though they were a bit overengineered for joining baseboards!  I recently settled on these

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-3mm-Pin-Way-Electrical-Multi-Connector-Plug-Kits-Motorcycle-Scooter-Car/152718025255?var=452354626112&hash=item238eb42227:m:m4CCbsO1lvwY9fFI692D6aQ

 

Which seem pretty robust, though they do need soldering...

Edited February 22, 2018 by Hroth

[Hroth]

Poetry, it has been claimed, communicates before it is understood.

 

Terminal block catalogues (or whatever this actually is), don't.

They have a certain warped fascination....

[Compound2632]

I found the plug in terminal blocks a bit to flexy when trying to put them together, so was tempted by these

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMP-Superseal-Waterproof-Electrical-Connector-Kits-1-2-3-4-5-6-Way-12-24v/131583838983?hash=item1ea3020b07:m:m7aivppIO9_Cpfm6zr5AHiw

 

though they were a bit overengineered for joining baseboards!  I recently settled on these

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-3mm-Pin-Way-Electrical-Multi-Connector-Plug-Kits-Motorcycle-Scooter-Car/152718025255?var=452354626112&hash=item238eb42227:m:m4CCbsO1lvwY9fFI692D6aQ

 

Which seem pretty robust, though they do need soldering...

 

You do have a point about the flexing. Crimp terminals are good if and only if you have the right crimping tool. Even then I like a dash of solder too.

[Nearholmer]

“Terminal block catalogues (or whatever this actually is), don't.”

 

I’m astonished that you are blind to the poetry displayed in every curve, line, springy bit, finely-turned screw, and hinged link of those terminal blocks. Works of art they are, works of art.

[Andy Hayter]

How low exactly do you think that was?

They were often fitted with screw link couplings, to reduce injuries to the cattle - for which the railway was liable - but as a through freight not needing to stop, it could get up to a reasonable speed, say 30 something miles an hour.

Interesting question about changing the wagons at a watering stop. I suspect not - the wagons need to be shunted and swapped, paperwork transferred and the fresh wagons need to have been cleaned in advance, which is an extra cost for the supplying company. But I suspect not.

 

Does anyone know?

 

 

I agree that transhipment would seem unlikely, but I really have to comment on your train speed.  Up to say 30 something is probably being optimistic.  [LNER freights frequently travelled at 25mph essentially max speed 25-35 years later - heavier trains but also more powerful locomotives.]  You also overlook the very real issues of priorities for freight trains, which meant that all too frequently at the first possibility that they might impede a passenger train, they would be shunted off the running lines and then wait until the next free pathway.  Waits of several hours were not uncommon.  

 

To show how things progressed over nearly a century, an analysis of SNCF freight wagons was made in the late 1990s.  The average speed of a wagon while in use (carrying goods) was a mere 25kph.  Did things really get worse or were these speeds fairly typical in an earlier age?

 

You can see why prize animal were sent in special wagons attached to passenger trains.

[Donw]

What is the terminal strip made of?

 

The ones I use are as per Guy photos this is the sort of thing https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=30a+terminal+blocks&clk_rvr_id=1448115320474&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2sOproa62QIVqLDtCh2vhAGQEAAYAiAAEgJAU_D_BwE&geo_id=32251&MT_ID=10&crlp=191672535992_3287&rlsatarget=kwd-8810892047&keyword=30a+terminal+blocks&abcId=1048836&treatment_id=7&poi=&adpos=1t2&device=c&crdt=0&ul_noapp=true  I get mine from shows or the local builders mechant all sorts of places. I find the 15A size handy if I want to put a two or three wires in together. Here ia a bit of info on wire sizes http://www.thehobbyshed.co.uk/equipment-wire  7/0.2 and 16/0.2 are handy all purpose sizes.   The rolls are quite large the cores of domestic appliance cables can often be related to these sizes those with limited funds should retain any cables before dumping dead items in recycling. You may only have a few colours Red, Black and green from old cables Blue, Brown and green yellow from newer ones but it should be enough. If you have access to any old recovered mains wiring than can be usable too. Telephone cables are usually too fine to be used as a single core some people double up using the whites with each colour. They are also not very good at being flexed.

 

Don

[Guy Rixon]

“Terminal block catalogues (or whatever this actually is), don't.”

 

I’m astonished that you are blind to the poetry displayed in every curve, line, springy bit, finely-turned screw, and hinged link of those terminal blocks. Works of art they are, works of art.

 

 

They, and all the other cheap and robust electrical fittings, are the last act of the industrial revolution. It happened in our lifetimes and we were privileged to see it.

[Edwardian]

Apropos the cattle links posted earlier, I have yet to read the droving histories in full, but from a glance it seems that the herds arrived in Norfolk and Suffolk in the autumn from Scotland, and went on to London in the spring and early summer.

 

If rail traffic worked in that way, in my Maytime scene, they would be departing, and, thus, not in the Scots wagons they may have arrived in!

 

Case closed, I think.

[TheQ]

You can get choc blocs with a ceramic body but I found them fragile.

I've used those amp connectors as well but I wasn't impressed with them.

 

I was looking at a photograph of Kyle of lochalsh recently, and there were

Two midland railway wagons,

One great Northern wagon,

One Caledonian wagon,

Three unidentifiable wagons,

Two Great Western wagons.

All opens,

 

Wagons from any company can be anywhere have what you like....

[Caley Jim]

Re wagons from 'foreign' companies. It very much depends on whether you are modelling a terminal station or a section of through line (main or secondary).  In the case of the former you will only see vehicles conveying traffic to that place, while in the case of the latter, you can have vehicles passing through to where-ever and so a much wider variety.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

Re wagons from 'foreign' companies. It very much depends on whether you are modelling a terminal station or a section of through line (main or secondary).  In the case of the former you will only see vehicles conveying traffic to that place, while in the case of the latter, you can have vehicles passing through to where-ever and so a much wider variety.

 

Jim

 

Unless that terminus is Castle Aching, where much through traffic must go there and reverse out to its eventual destination!

[NCB]

I was looking at a photograph of Kyle of lochalsh recently, and there were

Two midland railway wagons,

One great Northern wagon,

One Caledonian wagon,

Three unidentifiable wagons,

Two Great Western wagons.

All opens,

 

Wagons from any company can be anywhere have what you like....

 

If it was prior to common-user arrangements, then wagons from foreign parts were meant to be worked back to the owning company as soon as they were unloaded. So, loaded in, empty out. However, the Highland was notorious for hanging on to foreign wagons as long as they could ...

 

Whatever, in practice wagons on any site were pretty varied.

Edited February 22, 2018 by NCB

[Andy Hayter]

I think I am right in saying that in a few exceptional cases empties were sent to foreign locations to collect goods for locations their own system.

 

One of these exceptions was fish (predominantly herring).  Herring was a very seasonal "crop" starting on the west coast of Scotland, moving north and then progressively down the East coast port by port and ending (?) in Great Yarmouth.  Many of the young women who did the treatment (gutting and layering in wood barrels) actually migrated south with the herring.  So it is possible - depending on the date and time of year - that these are open fish wagons, sent empty to collect the barrels of gutted fish.

 

Edit to add that the on shore work included packing in a salt cure.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Andy Hayter

[wagonman]

I've had Kemilway etches from him within the last 12 months. I enquired whether they were available, was given a Paypal address to remit to, then nothing for 12 weeks until they dropped through the door.

 

 

Twelve weeks? As quick as that?  :-)

[Compound2632]

You can get choc blocs with a ceramic body but I found them fragile.

I've used those amp connectors as well but I wasn't impressed with them.

 

I was looking at a photograph of Kyle of lochalsh recently, and there were

Two midland railway wagons,

One great Northern wagon,

One Caledonian wagon,

Three unidentifiable wagons,

Two Great Western wagons.

All opens,

 

Wagons from any company can be anywhere have what you like....

 

If that's the photo that was being discussed elsewhere, it was established that it was certainly post-War and possibly post-Grouping, anyway certainly post-pooling, so provides no evidence for the first decade of the twentieth century, or earlier. Before pooling, local / home company wagons will predominate. Sorry to keep banging on about this.

[webbcompound]

If that's the photo that was being discussed elsewhere, it was established that it was certainly post-War and possibly post-Grouping, anyway certainly post-pooling, so provides no evidence for the first decade of the twentieth century, or earlier. Before pooling, local / home company wagons will predominate. Sorry to keep banging on about this.

Whilst this is generally the case, where special traffics are included it may not be. I have seen photos of seasonal traffic loading in the South West (rabbits, fruit, not sure) with LNWR passenger stock included in the rake of local wagons. Why? Nobody seems to know. On the Buckley line (WMCQR), in our period the traffic appears to be 2/3 local wagons (PO and WMCQR versions of flat wagons carrying boxes of bricks to the Quay,) and 1/3 LNWR one and two plank wagons  (carrying various bricks and various shapes of industrial fire brick ceramics) so where the local (small) railway company cannot supply enough wagons they are brought in from another company. This might well apply at Castle Aching

Edited February 22, 2018 by webbcompound

[St Enodoc]

Downham Market had a Maltings, and at the time I would guess it was the same size as CA, bits still remain, I think owned by whoever owns AT Johnson in the town....

 

Be careful of Choc Blocks, if you are using small solid conductors they will snap off just by the screw at some point. Solder joints are the way forward...

 

Andy G

The answer is to use stranded wire, not single-core.