Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

I would be interested to know the history of these wagons, how long did they last? My research suggests a lot of pre grouping wagons were still in use at nationalisation were these?

 

Can't say I have looked much beyond 1905!

 

As older, wooden underframed wagons, I suspect that they would have been reasonably common in the Grouping years, though severely winnowed by Nationalisation.

 

I can offer what Tatlow says about the GN variety:

 

The  Great Northern's 9 ton 4 plank open was extremely common, the LNER taking over 11,664 of them, although admittedly their numbers were to drop drastically by the beginning of the War, so that 396 remained by the end of 1941 and only 28 were passed on the British railways ...

[mullie]

Can't say I have looked much beyond 1905!

 

As older, wooden underframed wagons, I suspect that they would have been reasonably common in the Grouping years, though severely winnowed by Nationalisation.

 

I can offer what Tatlow says about the GN variety:

 

The  Great Northern's 9 ton 4 plank open was extremely common, the LNER taking over 11,664 of them, although admittedly their numbers were to drop drastically by the beginning of the War, so that 396 remained by the end of 1941 and only 28 were passed on the British railways ...

 

As you know my interest is in the 1948-55 period so anything that lasted into this period has potential and strangely although my layout is small I'm still finding I need more wagons.

[Edwardian]

As you know my interest is in the 1948-55 period so anything that lasted into this period has potential and strangely although my layout is small I'm still finding I need more wagons.

 

Which, to my mind, you capture perfectly, as you do the sense of place.

 

Considering that you weren't in a position to remember the '50s, it is remarkable how you are able to create a compelling picture of that period. 

 

Photographs of Pott Row invariably make me want to step into the scene and linger, whilst turning up my overcoat collar against the damp chill of the Fens, of course!

[corneliuslundie]

That video is a real gem. But I fear that sartorial matters were probably slightly different in Castle Aching, Traeth Mawr or Nantcwmdu in 1905. I can't imagine too many wing collars etc among the rural populace. My wife's comment on watching it was that those crossing in front of the tram (which I assume the camera was mounted on) were probably further away than appears.

And those chassis look nice too. Weren't railway companies inconsiderate to future modellers in building stock with so many different wheelbases? The Rhymney and LNWR were fond of 9 ft 9 in, whils there were also quite a lot of sub 9 ft wheelbase wagons around. But I have found that the brake gear mouldings in kits also vary quite a bit and I have my spares sorted by actual wheelbase, regardless of the fact that most of them are nominally 9 ft.

Red brake ends. Nice. Not something I have looked in to for carriages, but of course many companies paid their brake van ends red.

All this delectation and it is not even eight o'clock yet!

Jonathan 

[BG John]

That video is a real gem. But I fear that sartorial matters were probably slightly different in Castle Aching, Traeth Mawr or Nantcwmdu in 1905. I can't imagine too many wing collars etc among the rural populace. My wife's comment on watching it was that those crossing in front of the tram (which I assume the camera was mounted on) were probably further away than appears.

What made it stand out for me was the movement. There are plenty of photos around of clothing, but not people moving. The movement all seems pretty normal seen with modern eyes. Kids messing about, probably motivated by the camera, cyclists weaving about, and adults wandering around and hanging about. It's not the image of people being prim and proper, or with their nose to the grindstone, that still photos tend to portray.

[Edwardian]

What made it stand out for me was the movement. There are plenty of photos around of clothing, but not people moving. The movement all seems pretty normal seen with modern eyes. Kids messing about, probably motivated by the camera, cyclists weaving about, and adults wandering around and hanging about. It's not the image of people being prim and proper, or with their nose to the grindstone, that still photos tend to portray.

 

Indeed, and they all seem surprisingly content and happy, considering Simon's view of the period.  No doubt, as I say, because this is prior to liberal England's strange death. 

 

By New Year's Eve, 1911 in Jarrow, on the other hand, we have something much closer to what I would have expected ....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI

Edited October 12, 2016 by Edwardian

[BG John]

Indeed, and they all seem surprisingly content and happy, considering Simon's view of the period.  No doubt, as I say, because this is prior to liberal England's strange death. 

 

By New Year's Eve, 1911 in Jarrow, on the other hand, we have something much closer to what I would have expected ....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI

Was Jarrow typical of the whole country though? Being very ancient by the time I was born, my Dad was born in 1902 and Mum in 1914, in semi rural Berkshire, and they seem to have a pretty good life. No doubt the version I heard missed out the bits they'd rather forget, but life isn't perfect for any generation.

[Anotheran]

Considering that you weren't in a position to remember the '50s, it is remarkable how you are able to create a compelling picture of that period. 

 

This from the man who's creating a compelling picture of 1905... and I'm pretty sure you're not in a position to remember that!

[Edwardian]

Was Jarrow typical of the whole country though? Being very ancient by the time I was born, my Dad was born in 1902 and Mum in 1914, in semi rural Berkshire, and they seem to have a pretty good life. No doubt the version I heard missed out the bits they'd rather forget, but life isn't perfect for any generation.

 

John, might I ask, did you watch the video before responding?!? 

 

There may have been fewer Jesuitical cardinals in semi-rural Berkshire in the years before the Great War.  I could be quite wrong, in that regard, however ...

 

 

This from the man who's creating a compelling picture of 1905... and I'm pretty sure you're not in a position to remember that!

 

You are too kind, but I have the advantage that there is no one else around to remember it either!

[TheQ]

My thoughts are that, that Some of that film may have been taken on a Sunday with many of those shown in their Sunday best.

 

Back to a real film of Norfolk of real people in 1908, no trams or trains here but my sailing club regatta, 40years ago I knew some of those in the film (they were children in 1908). Most of the people were pretty wealthy by the standards of the time, but even in the final section of the film where most are in their best clothes for the prize giving, you can see the odd paid hand / boy / river worker in more normal clothing.

 

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/57

 

We are somewhat more representive of the population as a whole these days, our annual family membership fee is around £100

[Edwardian]

My thoughts are that, that Some of that film may have been taken on a Sunday with many of those shown in their Sunday best.

 

Back to a real film of Norfolk of real people in 1908, no trams or trains here but my sailing club regatta, 40years ago I knew some of those in the film (they were children in 1908). Most of the people were pretty wealthy by the standards of the time, but even in the final section of the film where most are in their best clothes for the prize giving, you can see the odd paid hand / boy / river worker in more normal clothing.

 

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/57

 

We are somewhat more representive of the population as a whole these days, our annual family membership fee is around £100

 

Brilliant film, thank you for posting.

 

I was particularly taken with the yacht crewed entirely by pipe smokers.

[Nearholmer]

You are onto the pipes; I noticed them too, and I'm thinking that the scene at CA needs to include pipe-smokers (how about a shepherd, in his frock and broad-brimmed hat, with an upside down, short, clay pipe?), and also needs to include dogs, bicycles, and perambulators (half fare).

 

Fascinating how a moving picture gives a tiny insight into peoples' characters. One of the yachtsmen receiving a prize was definitely of the "driven by nervous energy" type (I think he even forgot to take his hat off, he was so anxious).

 

K

[BG John]

John, might I ask, did you watch the video before responding?!? 

 

There may have been fewer Jesuitical cardinals in semi-rural Berkshire in the years before the Great War.  I could be quite wrong, in that regard, however ...

Of course I did, although it wasn't something I expected . I was referring more to grimy industrial towns full of oppressed and badly paid factory and mine workers who were starting to fight for better pay and conditions, and probably did have a hard and miserable life, in comparison to what was probably quite a pleasant life for many in more rural areas. Although a lot of the suffering in industrial areas was probably brought on themselves by being Catholic, and the struggle and costs that entailed, rather than the rather gentile life of Protestants in the same areas, who could make choices denied to Catholics that allowed them to live in greater comfort, albeit with some frustration for some of them .

[TheQ]

99% of catholic restrictions were repealed in 1829, there were no restrictions or costs by the time of this layout in 1901 -1910. They hadn't been really enforced since the end of the commonwealth era 160 years before ( unless you were royalty)

 

Gentile means non Jewish, assume you mean Genteel, meaning refined · respectable · polished · decorous · proper.

 

I doubt the majority population of rural Norfolk, made up of labouring farm workers and in this case railway workers through to WW2 would come under that description, and being Norfolk that meant Non-conformist Protestants not C.o.E. in the majority. Farm workers pay was often much worse than factory workers, thats why they left the countryside to seek their "fortune" in the cities or on the railways.

 

Yes I noticed the Pipe smokers and others on other boats, My grandfather, a ganger on GWR, always had a pipe in his mouth, even if not lit, until he was forced to stop long after he retired.

PS he was a miner Before working on the railways

Edited October 12, 2016 by TheQ

[Edwardian]

Of course I did, although it wasn't something I expected .

 

Well put!

 

Although a lot of the suffering in industrial areas was probably brought on themselves by being Catholic, and the struggle and costs that entailed, rather than the rather gentile life of Protestants in the same areas, who could make choices denied to Catholics that allowed them to live in greater comfort, albeit with some frustration for some of them .

 

 

We know a sketch about that, don't we Boys and Girls?

 

 

[Nearholmer]

I remember the "boy" who worked with my grandfather, who was head gardener on a large estate, telling me:

 

"Oh, yers, us ud alwus git long olidies afore the war; they'd alwus be in the middl'a winter; and, they'd alwus be without any pay."

 

In short, seasonality of work was a big driver of poverty in rural areas, even as recently as the 1930s, and men would take "indoor work", in the nearest town, to be guaranteed a year-round wage.

 

("Boy" was/is the job title for a gardener's labourer, and, from what I could work out, the job description was: walk about the place, very slowly, propelling a wheelbarrow.)

[BG John]

99% of catholic restrictions were repealed in 1829, there were no restrictions or costs by the time of this layout in 1901 -1910. They hadn't been really enforced since the end of the commonwealth era 160 years before ( unless you were royalty)

This doesn't look very pre 1829 to me!

 

Gentile means non Jewish, assume you mean Genteel, meaning refined · respectable · polished · decorous · proper.

Just testing

[Quarryscapes]

A box arrived today.  From Shapeways.

 

It contained 3 pairs of wagon underframes, a 5-plank body and a marked but unfamiliar smell. 

 

These are new designs from Quarryscapes of this parish.  He strode manfully into the fray when I was debating my options for creating 9'6" wheel-base wagons.  This wheel-base typified both GE and GN wagon output from the 1880s, yet I found that there were no wagon or u/f kits suitable, as 9' or 10' u/fs are the norm.

 

What Norm has to do with this, I am entirely unsure.  But Alan's efforts are certainly appreciated. 

 

These are wooden 9'6" w/b wagons - 2 of each u/f are provided:  

 

GER Square Grease

GER Teardrop Grease

GNR Grease

 

They are found here: http://www.shapeways.com/product/HUUXXNYFP/15-x-9-6-underframe-mix-set-4mm-scale?optionId=60772530

 

They should prove suitable for GER Diagram 16, GER un-diagrammed 4-plank and GN equivalent.

 

I shall attempt one of each of these and will attempt to scratch-build 2 of the bodies.

 

Just waiting for some Gibson open spoke wheels and top-hat bearings to arrive.

 

Looking Good - mine went together nicely, no faffing with bearing holes needed. Just need to sort a body out now.

 

What colour should I be painting it?

[TheQ]

It is hard on the internet to know when someone is wrong, is knowingly being wrong, actually believes in the film they just watched, or pretends to believe in the film they just watched.

[Edwardian]

Looking Good - mine went together nicely, no faffing with bearing holes needed. Just need to sort a body out now.

 

What colour should I be painting it?

 

Slate grey. 

[Fenman]

... Photographs of Pott Row invariably make me want to step into the scene and linger, whilst turning up my overcoat collar against the damp chill of the Fens, of course!

 

The model may have moved location (I know it is deliberately not based on anything that actually existed in Pott Row), but the Norfolk village of that name is certainly not in the Fens. It's actually in the rolling countryside that surrounds the chalk stream* of the River Gay (yes, really).

 

Paul

 

* Off-topic meander: there are apparently only 210 chalk stream eco-systems in the entire world; the vast majority of them - 160 - are in England; and 20, no less, are in Norfolk.

[Edwardian]

The model may have moved location (I know it is deliberately not based on anything that actually existed in Pott Row), but the Norfolk village of that name is certainly not in the Fens. It's actually in the rolling countryside that surrounds the chalk stream* of the River Gay (yes, really).

 

Paul

 

* Off-topic meander: there are apparently only 210 chalk stream eco-systems in the entire world; the vast majority of them - 160 - are in England; and 20, no less, are in Norfolk.

 

Sorry, Paul, yes, you're right.  I should have known better given that the Bishop's Lynn tramway has to navigate the environs of Pott Row and Grimston.  It's just that having in lived in the Fens, a few miles from the Norfolk border, the atmosphere of Mullie's layout always strikes me as Fen-like!  A personal impression. 

 

Still, I believe Castle Aching exists, so I clearly have a dubious grasp of geography.

[Shadow]

Another good video (film!) On that "East Anglian Film Archive" site.

Images of some carriages just like yours in the first few seconds.

 

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/215261

[Edwardian]

Another good video (film!) On that "East Anglian Film Archive" site.

Images of some carriages just like yours in the first few seconds.

 

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/215261

 

Well, what a wonderful film!  Thank you.  I have to say that the eponymous @rse-scratching Scotsman could not hold my attention when there were those gorgeous LNWR coaches on view!   Fairly clean, apart from the inevitably greyed roof, I noted.

 

I also noticed the, apparently 1905 vintage, advertisement for "EMU - Australian Burgundy".  The mind boggles, but, clearly, it is an advert that must appear at Castle Aching! 

[mullie]

The model may have moved location (I know it is deliberately not based on anything that actually existed in Pott Row), but the Norfolk village of that name is certainly not in the Fens. It's actually in the rolling countryside that surrounds the chalk stream* of the River Gay (yes, really).

 

Paul

 

* Off-topic meander: there are apparently only 210 chalk stream eco-systems in the entire world; the vast majority of them - 160 - are in England; and 20, no less, are in Norfolk.

 

I have thought long and hard about whether to rename the layout. Originally it was set where the real Pott Row is but looked nothing like anything connected with the place. Since I ripped all the buildings out it has become much more fen like and takes much of its inspiration form the Wisbech and Upwell and Stoke Ferry branches. However, the M&GN got nowhere near Stoke Ferry but did have a station at Wisbech.

 

Maybe I had better rename it!

 

Just to even further confuse the issue the station buildings are based on prototypes in Essex and Hertfordshire.