Inspired by Brent June 1947

[The Fatadder]

A start on the first of my standard components, a GWR battery box

 

i have worked from a photo (3/4 angle) and outline dimensions of the prototype.  One of the great things with Fusion is that it’s really easy to go back and change dimensions, and because of the defined relationships between parts, you change one dimension and it flows through the rest.  The upper bracket is a bit of a rom estimate, but it’s an area which will inevitably need compromise in order to get a good fit to the model.

 

I have been promised a better photo to work from in the week, after which I will update the drawing.  I have also ordered a drawings book from Wild Swan which I am told has all the bogie drawings plus the vacuum cylinder, so these will be drawn next.   I want to be able to print the f24 tanks and a full set of underframe bits for the concertina and k40 once I get the printer…

 

 

[The Fatadder]

Progress on the slip, with most of the end detail now fitted along with adding the linkages to the brakes and the steam heat pipe along the solebar.  Thanks to @Siberian Snooperfor sorting me out with the gongs for each end

 

I can’t find any lamp iron etches in my parts box, (again it’s annoying these are not included on the etch, there is more to an enough waste material that they could have been etched into).   I usually use the Finney etch for loco lamp irons, I don’t think I can find coach lamp irons in their range.  Who else does a decent etches GWR coach lamp iron?   (For that matter does anyone make a slip lamp?)

 

looks like one of the steps needs an adjustment as well!  
 

remaining jobs:

print  and fit the vacuum tanks

add lamp irons

drill and add roof handrails/ water filler pipes

add steam heat/vac pipe to headstock

 

 

After painting 

add handrails / door handles

Glazing

hinges

cab interior/bulkheads 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

The gong looks good,  I know someone does coach lamp irons, but off the top of my head I can't remember, maybe Dartcastings/ Shirescenes, Mainly Trains, now part of Wizard, I think or Roxey Mouldings.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

5 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

The gong looks good,  I know someone does coach lamp irons, but off the top of my head I can't remember, maybe Dartcastings/ Shirescenes, Mainly Trains, now part of Wizard, I think or Roxey Mouldings.

 

 

I had a look at Wizard without success (almost happy with this as I’d have been annoyed to have missed it from the order of bits for the concertina I placed earlier in the week.  Will have a look at dart / roxey now…

[The Fatadder]

Lots of progress on the F24 last night,

First up the roof drilling, it still needed 8 holes for the short centre handrails and 3 more holes for the end handrails.  Naturally this resulted in a couple of snapped drills, even with the Dremmel in pillar drill mode it wasnt drilling well...    Next the ends were finished off adding the long handrails (required at both ends on the F24), followed by adding the roof handrails and the brackets for the roof destination boards.

 

Work on the underframe was more minor, first gluing the steam heat pipe into position, the holes in the headstock for the vacuum and steam heat pipes were expanded to fit the castings which will be added after painting. 

 

I hadnt noticed that the body was not quite sat on the underframe correctly, given it still needs painting the two are not yet bolted together.

 

 

I'm rather pleased with this build, it makes for a very interesting coach with will be completely different to everything else in the formation (whether that its the Newspaper set or the Plymouth - Paddington).  Looking forward  to getting it painted and running on Brent.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

On to the next project, 

 

As mentioned previously I recently purchased a part build D33 Concertina brake third from what I am assuming was a Mallard kit (along with a Geen vac formed roof and a set of Geen American bogies.)  The body had already had the tumblehome formed, cast doors soldered in place, flange folded over on the bottom and a partial flange soldered onto the top.  

 

The first issue to resolve was the upper flange, this forms the base onto which the roof will be glued (along with helping to ensure that the sides stay straight.  It appeared that one side had the fret folded over, however the half etch lines were on the wrong side so this resulted in the flange being slightly higher than the side (leaving an unsightly gap).  On the other side there were just two 3 inch sections soldered in place.  All of this was removed before soldering a new strip of 5mm brass along the top edge (it pretty much sits on the top of the door castings), this utilised the fret left over from the Comet underframe kit.  A centre spacer was then soldered into place using a spare bulkhead from the Mallard O13 kit (for some reason my kit included a duplicate etch with a second set of the etch containing the ends and bulkheads (it also had a set of step boards which would have been perfect for my Siphon C!) 

Next attention turned to the chassis, a 70ft Comet job which will need to be converted for the earlier underframe style.  Given the doors stick inward from the sides by a couple of mm, the standard upright fold on the kit wouldn't fit so this was removed.  Once the sole bar had been soldered in place it was clear that the lower flange on the sides was preventing a good fit, so this was also carefully removed (a lot more difficult than the upper flange as there was a lot more material holding it in place.  The floor then required grinding with the Dremmel to provide sufficient clearance, followed by soldering on the headstocks (also from the Mallard O13 kit).  Comet buffers will be fitted once I have finished with the soldering.

I am unsure how I will tackle the underframe as I lack a decent queen post, I can think of two options, the first using the Comet cross piece modified to remove the bar linking the uprights, along with brass rod soldered on.

The second option is to try drawing something up in Fusion and having glued construction for the truss (with a 3d printed queen post and brass rod).  The battery box / Dyno / vac cylinders will be my 3d prints.

The final job for today was to assemble the Geen bogies, which went together nicely and are ready to install once the trussing is complete.

 

 

Remaining work:

The big job is to assemble and fit the vacuum formed roof, the only time I have tried this before it ended up in the bin (and was replaced with a modified RTR roof on the still unfinished Siphon J).  However Mike has sent some good instructions and photos as to what I should do, so fingers crossed I will manage it ok.

 

The ends need more detail, it certainly needs the long lamp irons (MJT) and steps / grab handles on at least the outer end (I havent seen a photo of the inner end  but I am assuming this would also have steps as well as the alarm gear).  Roof wise there is of course the drawing in Russell, although it shows more roof vents than I can see on photos (which only show vents in the 4 compartments), 

 

Finally its identity, I think with these early coaches that unless you are commissioning etches yourself (or they were commissioned by another 1940s modeller) you have to accept some compromise.  This coach is has full panelling along with a full set of toplights.  There are photos in Russell with and without the toplights, eg 3498 has toplights present but most of the panelling has gone, 3479 retains most of its panelling (but no toplights)  I think 3482 is the best bet for a compromise, the panelling is gone for the passenger end, but it still has it for the more visible brake end + a full set of toplights present.   Else that or its a case of replicate the livery from either of the 3 coaches in Russell and pick a random number for which you cant find a photo...

Edited January 15, 2022 by The Fatadder

[Siberian Snooper]

I have the Geen D43 Concertina brake third kit,  would it be any advantage to you if I scanned the destructions for you? Can't do it until tomorrow, though.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

4 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I have the Geen D43 Concertina brake third kit,  would it be any advantage to you if I scanned the destructions for you? Can't do it until tomorrow, though.

 

 

Thanks, I think that would definitely be useful.  Ive stopped work for today in a bad mood after managing to snap an end off one of the bogies trying to straighten a part out...   

 

So back to CAD work, with the Wild Swan coach drawings book arriving today I have hopefully all I need to finish off the drawings for the vac cylinder and dynamo,  It also has a drawing of the vacuum tanks for an earlier diagram of slip which includes more detail than my current cad so I will see what can be added to it. 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

No problem   will do it tomorrow once I have dried out from  a gallon or so of foreign beer. Currently Bass is unavailable down here.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

You have a couple of PMs with the destructions.

 

[The Fatadder]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

You have a couple of PMs with the destructions.

 

Thanks again for those, its a big help.  Reading through them it is really apparent just how good Dave Geen kits are.  The logic in the cad design (including things like jigs for forming the handrails etc).  One day I would like to finally build one...

 

 

I have progressed a little further on the coach today, with the attempt at queen posts added (a compromise just using flat sheet for the uprights), adding the V hangers for the vacuum cylinders, I have marked up the location for the battery boxes etc (though still need to get them printed) and added the castings for the bogie mounts and buffers.

 

Speaking of the bogies, I needed to do a slight modification adding a plastic spacer between the bogie and the end brackets as the OO flanges were fouling on the cross piece.  They have also now been fitted with the retention bolts and the etched bogie steps.

 

One thing I am still on clear on is the design of the trussing, as far as I can make out from the Geen instructions and from photos is that there were two different designs of trussing used.  The original had a flat bar section which rotated through 90 degrees before meeting the solebar (I think this is the case with the example at Didcot).  However looking at later photos in Russell it shows a consistent profile along the whole length of the truss.  What I cant tell is whether this is also a flat section, or a round bar.  The former I can easily model with some scrap fret, while the latter will require more wire to be ordered (unless the bar equates to 0.45mm diameter rod for which I have plenty) 

 

For now I cant escape making a start on the roof...

 

Photos to follow later...

 

 

[The Fatadder]

After about an hour of messing around with plasticard trying to make the roof, I just wasnt happy with what things were looking like.  However I have avoided cutting the actual roof (instead using 10 mm or so of the excess length as a practice).  My main issue (other than an inability to cut accurately) was in dealing with the overhangs and getting them the correct size (I ended up with a roof the width of the plasticard which meant a 1mm step upward.  Anyway, rather than ruin the roof moulding I have came up with an alternative plan, put the roof away for when I do a Dreadnought all third later in the year, and modify the ends of the Concertina to accept an MJT roof in the same way I did with the toplight full brake last year.   

 

So an MJT order has been placed (also adding on lamp irons and steps, and a spare roof just in case a future project needs one), before setting to work on the model with a grinding stone in the Dremmel to reprofile the top of the end to match the MJT roof.  (Thankfully have an offcut from a Comet and MJT roof in the tool box for just this sort of occasion.

With that done the coach was fitted with its bogies and is now sat waiting for me to determine the solution to the underframe trussing,  I think I have enough Comet parts for an interior so I will get that sorted next.  The remaining work around the ends will of course be awaiting the delivery from MJT.  
 

Edited January 16, 2022 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

Great turn around from MJT with Sundays order arriving this morning, unfortunately  covid has rather knocked me for six and the chance of actually making use of the parts to finish off the the D43 is pretty slim…

 

the Anycubic Proton Mono is due to arrive this afternoon, hopefully will be able to get the hang of using it at the weekend 

[The Fatadder]

Having finally started to feel a bit better after finally falling to Covid last weekend, last night I finally managed to make some progress on the Concertina brake third.  The first task was to finish off the MJT roof, cutting it down to length before drilling the holes for the roof vents and end handrails.  With the roof fully prepped it was then glued into position on the coach body. 

With this complete the next task was to start adding the final details, starting with the Comet roof castings along with the slightly unusual looking water tank panel (which according to the Geen instructions was more square than usual and located on the centre line of the roof.)   This was followed by work on the ends, as mentioned previously there was no provision on the ends for the steps etc.  For the steps I have modified the MJT bogie step etch, cutting the off the fold up sides along the mounting brackets  before gluing in place.  Also from MJT were the Churchward long lamp irons, while the alarm gear and end handrails were formed from 0.45 brass wire.  Finally the destination board brackets were glued in position on the roof using off cuts of Evergreen strip.  A Comet corridor connection from the scrap box was added to one end,

There are still a few jobs remaining, the underframe still requires trussing to be added (although I am unsure as to what it should look like), the plan is to print the battery boxes, vac cylinders and dynamo at the weekend (along with the vacuum tanks for the Slip).  Speaking of printing, my next drawing project is going to be working on interior parts.  The plan is to draw up a partition wall with a seat on either side (and of course two end units and bits for the guards compartment) so that you can just print off a coach worth of seat, along with a corridor wall ran through the silhouette cutter.  In turn this has got me wondering about the possibility of having a modular interior made from 2 seats, a corridor wall and one compartment wall which could be glued together

This will mean that the only components I will have to source will be bogies, roof vents, corridor connections and buffers.  The cast part of the corridor connection, buffers and probably bogie frames are all on the future hit list (the roof vent looks more complicated than its worth.)   My aim with all of this is two fold, it ensures security of supply of components (and means I can get them when I want them rather than having to wait on placing an order, it also lowers the cost of a kit (which can then be spent on more kits…)

 

 

After seeing the Bachmann Ransom & Rapier crane on sale at £150, I couldnt resist and just ordered one.  So having massively overspent on railway stuff this year I need to sell some modern stock to offset!  

Edited January 21, 2022 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

Things have started to progress on the printing front with the first test print and a calibration print now completed.  The latter had a partial failure, so I’ve now just finished cleaning out the tank in advance of a first attempt at my own print…

 

Already one lesson learnt, that I should have the radiators running while printing to keep the room warm (particularly with the window  open for ventilation.). I also need to get some more gloves ordered.

 

the first failure (on the RERF calibration file) was a bit of a pain emptying the tank is a real faff (cleaning it up even more so) 5 dots has bonded to the FEP requiring more cleaning.  
 

Hopefully the first GWR print will work ok (it will contain battery boxes, vac cylinders, dynamos, the vac tanks for the slip and a bunch of restaurant roof details)

 

 

[Neal Ball]

I don’t understand it… but the CAD’s look great!

 

If a 3D print fails, can you simply load the print back into the tank and print again?

 

Its fascinating to hear you talk about the various components you are going to make.

 

Good luck!

[The Fatadder]

10 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

I don’t understand it… but the CAD’s look great!

 

If a 3D print fails, can you simply load the print back into the tank and print again?

 

Its fascinating to hear you talk about the various components you are going to make.

 

Good luck!

Alas its not that simple, basically the print process works with a screen at the bottom under a tank full of resin, on the bottom of this tank is a clear film separating the resin from the screen.  One layer at a time it lights up the bits to keep in UV light which sets those pixels, then the plate will raise by one layer and repeat. (Once done you then have to clean the resin up as its pretty nasty stuff in liquid form, then do a further cure in UV light to make it fully harden).

 

The reason for failure can be numerous, including machine settings (the reason for yesterdays failure) under or over exposing the model, or drawing issues (usually having a layer of the drawing which is not supported by feeds).  If you have a part which is unsupported (or if the supports that you have added are not substantial enough again the part can fail to print (or fall apart in the print bed).  Finally there is the basic set up (getting it level, shaking up the resin etc), and a final type of failure that the model doesnt stick to the build plate.   The big worry with all of this is that if you have a failure, the build plate could push down upon it and burst the plastic film letting resin in contact with the screen.  At best you need a new film, at worst a new screen....

 

 

Printing finished at 12:05 last night (followed by 20 mins in the wash and cure in IPA), I have set it running the in the cure setting for 15mins this morning to finish it off.  A print that Citubox had said would take 4 and a half hours took about an hour longer than expected which rather threw my plans.  Once I have built a shelf for the printer to move to the downstairs loo, overnight prints becomes viable (but for now with the printer in the dining room with the printer open not so much.)

 

I have yet to check for dimensional accuracy, but at a first glance the parts "look" ok.  There is some layering on the battery boxes, so it will be interesting to see how well they clean up.  But detail wise they are certainly an improvement over the white metal castings I have been using (for a fraction of the price).  Will be good to get one painted this evening and see how it looks fitted to a model.  The vac cylinders have come out really well (probably over supported though), likewise the restaurant parts are looking good but again over supported.   I may get a chance to do a quick check over it all at lunch today, though my youngest is still off school isolating with asymptomatic covid...

 

[The Fatadder]

fresh from the wash and cure last night

 

a close up of the battery box, not perfect, but the detail is there.  Just need a little more work on orientation on the print bed I think.  Definitely an improvement I’ve the white metal castings that I have been using so far…

 

Next drawing will be the seating units and guards compartment for the D43, (and my 1998 optical car).  I have also started drawing a slip lamp and some TPO bits, though the latter needs a trip to Didcot to take dimensions. 
 

Other future plans will include some interior bits for my Centenary diners, and corridor connections.  On the latter my plan is a partial corridor comprising the brackets, and rear half of the corridor onto which a card flexible corridor will be fitted. 

 

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Alas its not that simple, basically the print process works with a screen at the bottom under a tank full of resin, on the bottom of this tank is a clear film separating the resin from the screen.  One layer at a time it lights up the bits to keep in UV light which sets those pixels, then the plate will raise by one layer and repeat. (Once done you then have to clean the resin up as its pretty nasty stuff in liquid form, then do a further cure in UV light to make it fully harden).

 

The reason for failure can be numerous, including machine settings (the reason for yesterdays failure) under or over exposing the model, or drawing issues (usually having a layer of the drawing which is not supported by feeds).  If you have a part which is unsupported (or if the supports that you have added are not substantial enough again the part can fail to print (or fall apart in the print bed).  Finally there is the basic set up (getting it level, shaking up the resin etc), and a final type of failure that the model doesnt stick to the build plate.   The big worry with all of this is that if you have a failure, the build plate could push down upon it and burst the plastic film letting resin in contact with the screen.  At best you need a new film, at worst a new screen....

 

 

Printing finished at 12:05 last night (followed by 20 mins in the wash and cure in IPA), I have set it running the in the cure setting for 15mins this morning to finish it off.  A print that Citubox had said would take 4 and a half hours took about an hour longer than expected which rather threw my plans.  Once I have built a shelf for the printer to move to the downstairs loo, overnight prints becomes viable (but for now with the printer in the dining room with the printer open not so much.)

 

I have yet to check for dimensional accuracy, but at a first glance the parts "look" ok.  There is some layering on the battery boxes, so it will be interesting to see how well they clean up.  But detail wise they are certainly an improvement over the white metal castings I have been using (for a fraction of the price).  Will be good to get one painted this evening and see how it looks fitted to a model.  The vac cylinders have come out really well (probably over supported though), likewise the restaurant parts are looking good but again over supported.   I may get a chance to do a quick check over it all at lunch today, though my youngest is still off school isolating with asymptomatic covid...

 

 

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

fresh from the wash and cure last night

 

a close up of the battery box, not perfect, but the detail is there.  Just need a little more work on orientation on the print bed I think.  Definitely an improvement I’ve the white metal castings that I have been using so far…

 

Next drawing will be the seating units and guards compartment for the D43, (and my 1998 optical car).  I have also started drawing a slip lamp and some TPO bits, though the latter needs a trip to Didcot to take dimensions. 
 

Other future plans will include some interior bits for my Centenary diners, and corridor connections.  On the latter my plan is a partial corridor comprising the brackets, and rear half of the corridor onto which a card flexible corridor will be fitted. 

 

Thats fascinating Rich, thank you for explaining it all.

 

I suppose the next stage will be to get a 3D scanner…. That would be very useful for the slip lamps.

 

The items you’ve shown in the photos look very good.

 

Well done and thanks again. 

[The Great Bear]

I had doubts on seeing the cad that the handles to the boxes would print, being too fine, so that's a good result. The noticeable layering is a bit odd, I imagine you've used 50 micron thickness if not less? Been a long while since I cranked up my printer but perhaps the exposure is too long?

 

[The Fatadder]

1 minute ago, The Great Bear said:

I had doubts on seeing the cad that the handles to the boxes would print, being too fine, so that's a good result. The noticeable layering is a bit odd, I imagine you've used 50 micron thickness if not less? Been a long while since I cranked up my printer but perhaps the exposure is too long?

 

Possibly the exposure, it’s printed at 30micron and 10s exposure, the latter being the best result on the calibration print.  It’s been suggested to try having the box aligned with the build plate, so will see how that goes next time.  I’ve now ran out of gloves so until more arrive I can’t do any more

 I need to drain the tank again, I was confused as to what happened to the dynamos which should have been on the print.  After checking the cad it confirmed I had forgotten to add them in Chitubox.  However while checking the file I spotted a random roof vent that chitubox had added (with no supports).  Now there was a random loose lump that I found while cleaning up which could be this, but I don’t know for certain there’s no remnants in the tank. 

[The Great Bear]

I would have thought that printing with the boxes parallel to the build plate was likely to make layering more prominent but happy to stand corrected; most advice I saw suggests angling the build 30-45 degrees. I also found for my coaches that twisting the print by 20 degrees or so reduced stepping in areas like the tumblehome. As you're finding printing is a lot of trial and error!

[The Fatadder]

I’ve now tested the prints, I think the vac cylinder needs a revision.  It looks really good but it looks a tad small maybe.  It’s a touch smaller than the MJT casting (and a lot smaller than Comet, though I am assuming theirs is most likely not accurate for a GWR coach).  The roof cowling needs a tweak to the underside (and less supports) while the battery box support brackets are far too week and snapped removing the supports.  This is an easy fix extruding a bar between the two brackets (hidden by the solebar)

 

all minor stuff, once I have some gloves and a filtered tank I will try again, at least this has only cost me a few pence of resin, and has outputted some useful parts in the process.  Most of the battery boxes are pretty useable for a ‘layout coach’  the slip tanks were perfect (but still need the pipe adding)

Edited January 24, 2022 by The Fatadder

[Neal Ball]

Excellent work Rich.

[The Fatadder]

Just had a delivery from DHL with my Ransom & Rapier crane from Kent Garden Railways, looking forward to getting it out onto the layout.  First there are going to be a couple of jobs to have a look at.  It needs to be fitted up with the detailing parts and etches.  It needs to be renumbered, but I am not sure if anyone actually makes the number plates that I will need to renumber it.  Mine will most likely become no.19 which was at Swindon in 1947 (although may still become Canton's No18).  Eventually once I will build a tool van and mess van to run with it, however for now it will likely run on route for an engineering job...

 

The next thing to think about is the couplings, there are tension locks on one end of both relieving bogies, and on both ends of the match truck.  I am torn, as my usual Dinghams look tricky to fit, but I need to get rid of those tensionlocks.