Jazz 7mm Workbench

[jazz]

Martyn, I have the same sentiments regarding the 'beam' idea. There is little side play, some but not much. Plus I'm a bit concerned that the axle bushes have a very thin shoulder and subsequently, are extrmely close to the frames.

 

If a problem arises of shorting out, then having tender pickups, it means the drivers steel tyre backs could be insulted I think.

 

Personally I would have prefered the frames not to have had the beams or any overlays. There is absolutely no purpose in them being there. Regular springing or internal compensation beams would have been much better. The inside valve gear could still be used. The only thing lost would have been the internal horn block castings. IMHO that would have been worth loosing.

Edited December 20, 2012 by jazz

[M51625]

Is all this beam compensation and pivot points in the brake gear all a little excessive and over complicating matters? Plus it all prevents plunger pickups being fitted something which is pretty widely used in the hobby, do the instructions suggest how current collection is achieved?

 

It may be a new kit on the market but is the designer trying to prove something, the brake gear on the real thing doesnt pivot, so why make it so on a model?

 

Agreed about the side play, we need some float on those middle axles to get round the corner, this seems to restrict this, it will be interesting to discover just what radius this chassis will be happy with when completed.

 

I was considering going for this kit but i'll wait a while until you finish and make a judgement, as this is from the Scorpio models stable (kind of) what are the castings like up to the usual scorpio standard?

 

cheers

[jazz]

Yes, this particular chassis design is causing some complications. (If I were to build one for myself, I would not use the beams as designed. I would prefer my usual method of springing.)

 

There is no suggustions for methods of pickups as the designer has decided to leave that entirely to the builder. Tender pickup is my prefered method on all my tender locos when they are for my use. anyway.

 

I think there should be enough side play in the rear three axles to allow 6' radius. That is to be tried as yet.

 

The casting are on parr with the Scorpio usual standard. Maybe a tad better than most but not as good as some.

[ozzyo]

Hello Jazz,

 

I'm still not sold on the outside beams, but if I was doing one I think that I'd put two small bits of say 10 thou brass on the inside at the ends on the axle centre line and one at the top above the pivot (or some small R/H rivets), along with a 10 thou washer on the pivot, just to try and keep them all in line (but it could get gummed up with paint later on). I know it's too late for you to do it now. Doing the above would also help to keep all of the beams parallel to the frames. It's a pity that the beams could not be fitted to the inside of the frames.

 

If you do find that you get some shorts, try fitting some 5 thou plasticard on the outside of the beams, looking at how the loco frames have been designed I think that using the American system for pick-ups may be the best way on this loco (only one side to keep the shorts at bay).

 

Sorry to sound like I'm telling you how to do your job,

 

The. valve gear will help to fill in the void between the frames.

 

OzzyO.

[jazz]

Yes, I also do not the design at all. As I mentioned above, I would alter it to my usual method for springing. The is not enough play to add plasikard behind the wheels. I did push it through Peco turnout today. It seemed OK. So on with the build.There will be no pickups on the actual loco, just the tender.

 

Do not worry about trying to teach me my job. I'm very open to all suggestions, I certainly do not know everything, who does? T

Edited December 21, 2012 by jazz

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Ken

I have been following this with interest, and a little amusement, Why on earth go for such a radical design when other tried and tested methods have proved to work?

 

If one of these ever comes my way I would be tempted to plate over the mainframes and cut new slots for Slaters bearings and springs a la your usual method. Sticking with the tender only pickup is certainly a sensible move.

 

Good luck with the rest of the build.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Sandy

[jazz]

Hi Sandy, happy Christmas to you & yours too. I quite agree with what you say.

 

Here is the progress so far. It does not look like much has been done, but it's took forever to to it.

 

It was no worse, no better than most kits for this stage. The only thing I have altered it the vac pump. The white metal one was discarded as I did not fancy trying to drill a small hole throught the casting. All I could see, would be a broken drill bit half way through the job. Plus clamping it tight enough for the pillar drill would have seriously damaged it.

 

So a scratch built one from brass tube was produced.

 

Surprisingly, clearances for the coupling and connecting rods was OK. That was a pleasant change.

 

The cross heads/slide bars and cylinder covers required a lot of work to get them in good shape to move smoothly.

 

So there is a little more work to as yet on the chassis.

 

[Sandy Harper]

Despite all the issues, it is looking good!

Sandy

[jazz]

Hi Sandy.  All the issues with the chassis has not been resolved (I hope) .     The only thing I have not mentioned is the slide bar 'C' bracket. As is usual on most kits, there is not enough clearance for the crosshead to pass, especially with the vacuum piston rod bracket attached to the r/hand one.  You will have to modify the inner curve to allow for the this.   Also adjust the piston pump bracket to fit in the recesses of the crosshead. (that just entails a bit of filing to get it yo fit)

 

So that's it for the chassis until painted.

 

 

 

[jazz]

Some forward momentum is now on the cards. A start on the body  .  So far all is going well and seems to be up to Scorpios usual standard of acuracy on the etchings.

 

First image is showing the all important folding of the running plate. Again, not impossible using hand tools but much more accurate using, in the case, the Metalsmith folding table.

 

The overlay for the running plate does not entirely line up with all the matching holes so I used the position that gave the most that lined up.

 

Watch out for the splasher recesses. The will have a very small ledge formed my the main runnig plate and the overlay. These little ledges are to sit the cast splasher tops onto. So do not file flush (as I very nearly did when cleaning up the overlay edges )

The lower front overlay is a bit tricky to bund to shape without some distortion due to the half etching. I used a small steel bar, fingers and pliers to form the curve  and stil had to remove some distortion with a wood dowel and gentle rubbing on a cutting mat.

  

 

Edited December 23, 2012 by jazz

[jazz]

Hi all. Despite watching a good film and enjoying chocolates and a beer, I have had time to do a bit morre on 3803.

 

First was bending the roof in the GW rolling bars.

 

Followed by preping the cab sides with handrails. Completing the cab and attaching it plus floor and roof was perfect. Everything was spot on with the etches. This kit is now getting better and better to build.

 

The inner 'box' for the firebox was made up. Again a perfect fit with the etches.

 

Just the same with the skins. I have rarely had such a good fit with abosutely no adjustments to make.

 

 

So all in all a very good day and pleased with the progress. Most of the detail on the running plate has also been added.

 

 

A very merry Christmas to you all.

Edited December 24, 2012 by jazz

[3 link]

And a very merry Christmas and a happy New year to you Ken.

[jwealleans]

Yes, all the best, Ken.

 

What is that you're cushioning the rolling bars with?  I assume that's so you don't lose some relief detail on the roof?

[N15class]

I use the same, it is to stop rolling the rivit detail back into the half etches.

[jazz]

Hi all. Now recovered from the festivities and spent the day at WB Jonathan, the is just a sheet of the instructions double folded and as N15class says, it's just to protect the rivet detail getting damaged. (I also use it on thicker brass & nickle silver to stop it skiddiding and helps feeding it through the rollers)

 

So, it is now ready for priming and painting the chassis black (The correct tender for 3803 is awaiting delivery fron Warren Shephard, he's mailing it this week I think)

 

The body went well regarding the fitting of the etches. Boiler and smke box is joined by a hefty whith metal ring. The s/box front is also a hefty w/m casting too. It is slightly larger diameter then the joing ring. So careful filing and

calipers are needed to make them identical.

 

The s/box wrapper was a perfect fit, the seam joined without any adjustments. Shame the boiler was not as good. The seam just about touched. In fact I was only able to spot solder in three places. So I made up four braces from sprue to made a good joint with 60/40 solder across the seam. I then filled the seam from the outside with 145 solder to make an invisilble joint.

 

A small amount of filling was required at the f/box end of the boiler to get it to sit parallel with the running plate.

 

So all in all not bad.

 

Ther was no ties for the f/box bands, so they were made from scrap brass. (I have just noticed in the photo I need to add a rain strip tomorrow across the rear of the roof. Oh Hum)

 

So here she is.

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2012 by jazz

[Kev_Lewis]

Stunning work as always Ken.

 

The loco has a great presence about it.

[N15class]

Looks great Ken

I have been thinking about the way the brake hangers move with the compensation beams. I like that part of the system me thinks it will save shorts and you would be able to get the brakes closer, As you do not have to allow for the wheel movement. I think I might try it with an internally mounted system. I am sure the hole in the frames would not notice.

Edited December 27, 2012 by N15class

[Sandy Harper]

Ken,

Do the external beams move in unison ie are they attached accross the chassis fames or do they operate  independantly fom each other? I'm still trying to get my head around the pivoting brakes!!!

Sandy

 

PS

 

After studying your photos and explanation again, very carefully this time, I think I have managed to answer the question above and I have nealy got my head around the brake operation. Am I right in thinking that the fit of the compensation beams need to be  almost exactly spot on as any unwanted side way movement is likley to cause the brake rigging to bind but, they have not to be so tight as to prevent the beams from having free movement? Would the outside face of the beams benefit from a layer of insulating tape to prevent shorts if the wheel rims are that close?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Sandy Harper

[jazz]

hi Peter & Sandy. Peter, it is perfectly feasable to mount the beams internally. That would, of course, require quite a bit of work to achieve that.

 

Sandy, It is very simple to work out. There are four beams, each operating independantly and brake mounts are not connected across the frames. The only connection is the brake pull rods and that's the reason for needing movement in two places as shown in the photos.

[jazz]

Hi. No doubt you have all seen enough of the 3803. So final photo's of her ready for the painter.

 

as I said earlier, it will be tender pickup coupled to the Slater's GB30R-3M motor unit. This was a tight fit in the firebox and set at an angle to poke through the small gap into the boiler. So watch what your power unit is going to be and make the necessary alterations if they are needed. (I was lucky here as it was a last minute change of power unit)

 

I have insulated the rear of the tyres just in case they short. But careful watching through Peco points gave no problems. The lead axle has no play at all but I have left the rear three to move sideways.

 

 

[jazz]

Hi all. Another interesting loco just off the WB. This is the ubiquitous and popular Collet 2251 class.  Built from a Gladiator kit (Ex Javelin) it's not a difficult one but does need a few minor modifications as you go. (Jim Harris had a hand in the design of this particular kit but not the tender as this model has the ROD tender attached) It is a very heavy model with the boiler full of lead weight.

 

As usual, in primer ready for Geoffs painter.

 

Tender chassis is uncomplicated and a simple build.

 

The loco chassis build up with no problems. A tight affair for installation od pickups with the valve gear in the way but worth it.

 

A very simple tender to build with no problems.

 

The loco body needed some minor adjustments to get the firbox/boiler/s/box sitting right.

 

 

Always nice to have something to see between the frames.

Edited January 17, 2013 by jazz

[jazz]

Hi all.  Just starting another interesting loco. The Gladiator 4-6-2 "Princess Coronation" Class (Duchess).  This is the fifth one across the bench, so I'm anticipating no issues building one. It's nice kit to assemble anyway.

 

The tender has gotten of to a good start, only taking two days work. Everything fitted very well, only the coal space needed some small amount of filing to fit snugly under the inwards curve at the rear top.

 

All the casting were very nicely cast. The only issue is this version of tender has no rear side steps and with the side frames passing bang in the centre line of the buffers, it means the latter has to be non working. the alternative is mounting the side frames much further out and that would ruin the look of the model.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[N15class]

I see you are back upto full speed after the 38 and USA tank. This is a nice looking tender. It is a shame no one makes self contained buffers in 7mm, I have converted a few but it all adds to the time.

[jazz]

I think it may have been your self contained buffers I have seen. I think they would be a very desirable item if available commercially.

[scot6p]

N15 and Jazz, MOK do self contained buffers for LMS and BR loco's. 

 

Len