Home cinema speaker advice requested

[Karhedron]

Greetings home cinephiles. I have a fairly decent Sony TV and Blu Ray player at home but I find the audio is a real problem. The music and sound effects boom out while the dialogue sounds like it is being mumbled in the next room. Blu Rays seem worse than regular DVDs and the Marvel superhero flicks are definitely the worst offenders. I need to crank up the volume to be able to make out the spoken parts but the other sounds are then far too loud.

 

I have fiddled with the settings of both the TV and the player and I cannot find anything to boost the dialogue so I am guessing I will need to buy a centre speaker for the dialogue. Would this help?

 

I have an S370 blue Ray player and an EX403 TV. Can anyone recommend a speaker that will do the job and not cost too much please? Can anyone tell me what else I will need? Do I need to run the left and right audio out through something to split out the different channels?

 

Any advice would be very welcome. I am on a limited budget so I don't want to waste money unnecessarily. If anyone knows a different/better way to boost the dialogue without blasting my eardrums, I would be delighted to hear them.

[colin penfold]

My advice is go to your local richer sounds branch or call their helpline. I have eltax speakers and a pioneer amp. Both from richer sounds at bargain prices, both excellent.

[Bezzy Oppo]

You're going to need an AV amp to decode the separate audio channels in addition to the requisite number of speakers; for what it's worth even with a top notch setup you can find the actual sound production values in translation to the disc media are reason for poor audio quality on the centre channel. Good luck and before you part with cash you will find on line retailers who will beat Richer Sounds on a bundle deal, despite RS's claim to 'price match' .

[Nile_Griffith]

Hi there!

 

Strictly speaking the L+R Stereo tracks from a video recording should present a listenable balance between Dialogue, music and sound effects. It would be the responsibility of the film producers to create a useable stereo mix as the majority of home viewers whether they watch off some form of playback or off air only have a stereo TV or speakers.

 

Unfortunately the reality  is that quite a few stereo mixes (and particularly those of action films) aren't great and the habit of studio engineers listening to the mix on equipment that approximates what viewers listen to at home is a bit of a dying art. As a consequence most in built TV speakers can't reproduce the dynamic that pro studio monitoring does and a mix that sounds fine in a film dubbing theatre sounds chaotic at home.

 

Adding a central speaker means deriving a full surround mix from your DVD player or TV so effectively that means using an A/V amplifier. This amplifier allows you to take a surround mix at line level (or via a digital connection) and provides five (plus a sub output) or in some circumstances seven (plus one sub) amplified outputs capable of running the required number of speakers for a surround system. So in a nutshell to just have a left, Right and Centre speaker required three amplifiers fed at line level by the left right and centre outputs of a surround sound de-coder.

 

Richer Sounds is indeed a good place to look for affordable set ups. It might be that an affordable "Sound Bar" might be a good option, these can actually give quite good results providing you can set them up in the correct position and in a good space acoustically.

 

Just to check. You are playing the stereo mix (stereo L+R) of your DVD player into your amplifier and speakers and not the Surround L+R?  The Surround L+R channels will not contain an adequate balance of dialogue in comparison to the music and FX tracks. In fact it really is only worthwhile listening to the surround L+R if you have the accompanying centre speaker as well.

[mjkerr]

I have an S370 blue Ray player and an EX403 TV.

I am on a limited budget so I don't want to waste money unnecessarily. If anyone knows a different/better way to boost the dialogue without blasting my eardrums, I would be delighted to hear them.

With this setup you are relying on the TV to provide the sound 

What connector type are you using between these two devices? 

What sound setting is on the TV? 

 

I have a great interest in films, however I will not spend ridiculous amounts on equipment 

Typically every 10 years I replace both the TV and player 

 

I have only recently swapped from DVD to Blu Ray, thanks to working for a subsidary of Lucasfilm 

I was given a SONY Blu Ray Home Cinema System 

It is rare, but Currys still sell this for £250 (as it is now quite old) 

These systems are a compromise, but if you watch films more than TV then it is good starting point without spending ridiculous money 

For about £150 more than a premium Blu Ray player 

 

I would agree, Richer Sounds have some good deals on TV, but they are not as good as they used to be 

I am currently looking at replacing my Panasonic 50" Plasma, which was replaced by the original LG I purchased from Richer Sounds after it failed after just a few weeks and its replacement 

However, Currys has the best price I can find for a non-active 3D LG 60"; LG seem to be the only non-active 

 

Moving on the SONY Blu Ray player, I find it very basic compared to the previous SONY DVD Player and LG DVD Players I had 

[Ozexpatriate]

The music and sound effects boom out while the dialogue sounds like it is being mumbled in the next room. Blu Rays seem worse than regular DVDs and the Marvel superhero flicks are definitely the worst offenders.

The sound mix for this kind of media (action blockbuster movies) needs a 5.1 home theatre system.  It's not so much about the quality of the speakers, but as noted above, just separating the channels into something that can be balanced properly. It will make a big difference.

 

L+R by themselves can't manage a mix that was designed for the variety of speakers in a cinema.

[DougN]

I have an even more curious problem. New Samsung 50Inch TV (4K etc). Connected to an Energy Sound bar via optical out, Blue tooth base speaker. (beatiful sound BTW) Worked perfectly with the old Sony TV (32inch, 790P). The same Blueray (panasonic) TV/ Blueray connected by the same HDMI cable. 

 

Now New TV the picture is great, But this where it gets complicated. Sound bar doesn't work with Blue rays! EH? I even found that some HDTV Free to air doesn't work and varies at strange times. I have located part of the problem when the resolution is high on the picture IE 1080p the sound bar doesn't work.... when it is on a lower resolution it does. I have a sneaky suspicion that it is the software that is in the Samsung TV that is not working for some reason.... even more frustrating is I don't have time to sort it all out with samsung! 

 

Yes I have even done the software upgrade... all very annoying as the TV has done it from the very beginning! and it is only 3weeks old. 

 

I can't understand any other option other than the software not working correctly! The only consistent item is the Blueray... the sound will work on a DVD though. 

 

Must admit that the sound form the TV speakers is extremely tinny compared to the sound bar. (oh yes that cost a fortune before sound bars became popular!) 

[Ian J.]

Hi DougN,

 

It might be that the optical output is your limit. These can't handle hi-definition sound tracks (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio), that are often on Blurays. You might be able to set your Bluray player to only output the compressed standard definition sound if the Bluray disc has it, which might allow the speaker to work properly.

 

HTH

[Karhedron]

With this setup you are relying on the TV to provide the sound 

What connector type are you using between these two devices? 

What sound setting is on the TV?

TV and player are connected with an HDMI cable. I have had difficulty finding the audio menu on the TV as there don't seem to be many options to adjust.

 

I have had another look at the manual and there is supposed to be an option to set the Downmix to "Stereo". Would that help in this instance?

 

Just remembered I have an old hi-fi with separate speakers and a dolby decoder (I think it is Pro Logic) in it. Would that be sufficient to separate out the audio channels?

[mjkerr]

You could always try existing equipment, however it will run together with the TV speakers unless it has its own amplifier 

An alternative is a sound bar 
I am not a great supporter of these as I much prefer correct 5.1 5.2 7.1 and so on sound setups which stop using the sound settings on the TV

[gordon s]

I run my TV through my audio system as it doesn't have it's own speakers.  Of course it's not running in surround sound, but the stereo output is fine for sporting events and similar that I watch.

 

The TV output goes into the auxiliary input on the pre amp.

[Bezzy Oppo]

Having checked the spec of your gear I suggest going down the sound bar route. If you can stretch to one of the mid-range Yamaha ones, you'll not go far wrong. I run both a Yamaha 7.2ch AV amp and one of their sound bars (different rooms). My wife is deaf in one ear and always struggles with the dialogue channel, she was sceptical about the sound bar, not any more.

[DougN]

Hi DougN,

 

It might be that the optical output is your limit. These can't handle hi-definition sound tracks (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio), that are often on Blurays. You might be able to set your Bluray player to only output the compressed standard definition sound if the Bluray disc has it, which might allow the speaker to work properly.

 

HTH

Thanks I have just gone and checked out the Energy web site and your right the sound bar I have appears not to have the Dolby digital decoder... What a shame it isn't like a loco motive where you can plug one in!

 

Umm have to discuss with SWMBO what the best solution is.

[Ian J.]

TV and player are connected with an HDMI cable. I have had difficulty finding the audio menu on the TV as there don't seem to be many options to adjust.

 

I have had another look at the manual and there is supposed to be an option to set the Downmix to "Stereo". Would that help in this instance?

 

Just remembered I have an old hi-fi with separate speakers and a dolby decoder (I think it is Pro Logic) in it. Would that be sufficient to separate out the audio channels?

 

When only using a stereo speaker system, you should always set the output of the player (and the disc) to be downmixed to stereo, otherwise the system will think you've got the separate speakers to handle the centre and surround channels.

[Nile_Griffith]

When only using a stereo speaker system, you should always set the output of the player (and the disc) to be downmixed to stereo, otherwise the system will think you've got the separate speakers to handle the centre and surround channels.

 

 

Agree with this post. The down mix should give you a reasonable balance between dialogue, music and FX as I mentioned above. However as I also mentioned the down mix is a summation carried out by the player itself rather than a separately devised stereo mix created by the audio mix engineer in the studio. As tempting as it might seem if you don't have a surround system then you should always choose the "Stereo" playback option if available on your DVD or BluRay disc.

[jjb1970]

I think it depends on what you want. If you want really good sound then an AV amp and speaker system is the way to go but it can be a bit of a palaver to set up. If you want something with more oomph and bass than you'll get from the TV speakers then a soundbar and sub-woofer will give you a big boost in sound for a modest cost and without the hassle of setting up a proper surround sound system. I'd second going to have a look in Richer sounds, they do some good deals and you can get a good system there for a sensible price.

[30801]

I think it depends on what you want. If you want really good sound then an AV amp and speaker system is the way to go but it can be a bit of a palaver to set up. If you want something with more oomph and bass than you'll get from the TV speakers then a soundbar and sub-woofer will give you a big boost in sound for a modest cost and without the hassle of setting up a proper surround sound system.

 

An alternative to a sound bar is a sound base. This is basically a box containing speakers that you sit the TV on. Its advantage is that effectively takes up no room but also has enough bulk not to require an external subwoofer.

 

FWIW I replaced a 5.1 system with a Sony HT-XT3. While it doesn't sound as good it's perfectly fine and frees up a ton of space.

[MJI]

I run through a home cinema system and boost centre channel by about 3dB to get clearer dialogue

[StuAllen]

I think this really comes down to budget - I can't vouch for what the sound bars are like as I've not tried one, but looking at the RicherSounds website they seem reasonably priced, personally I'd go for a dedicated home cinema system but I am biased as I have a 7.1 system Onkyo Amp with Mission speakers and a Rel sub woofer, (the Marvel style films sound great and I can't wait for the new Star Wars film on Monday) again looking at the RicherSounds website there are some good entry level systems. This thread is starting to look like an advert for RicherSounds but I've always found their staff really helpful and knowledgeable, their stores have demo rooms so i would have a look at their website, build a short list of bars or system you want to listen to and give them a call to arrange a viewing, take a film you know well to try out. 

[Karhedron]

I ran the audio out from the player into my old pro-logic stereo and the difference was amazing! Crystal clear dialogue and I could actually hear high-pitched notes in the music that I hadn't even realised were missing before. A total transformation.

 

Thanks all for the help and advice.

[DougN]

Thanks I have just gone and checked out the Energy web site and your right the sound bar I have appears not to have the Dolby digital decoder... What a shame it isn't like a loco motive where you can plug one in!

Umm have to discuss with SWMBO what the best solution is.

Well the end result was a new Samsung sound bar. Longer, thinner, works quite well with the TV. But it does let the sub do a lot more of the work! Just noticed that it doesn't turn its self on automaticly which the energy bar did.

 

Was it work the extra dosh... Ask me in a month.