Correct SR livery for DS1169 - the Ruston Hornsby 48DS

[Tony Teague]

Can anyone help me to identify the correct livery for DS1169 when it first came to the Southern Railway at Folkestone Warren?

 

I appreciate that this is an obscure question about an obscure loco - but I just cannot find any colour pictures or livery references.

 

All help appreciated.

 

Tony

[Adam]

Can anyone help me to identify the correct livery for DS1169 when it first came to the Southern Railway at Folkestone Warren?

 

I appreciate that this is an obscure question about an obscure loco - but I just cannot find any colour pictures or livery references.

 

All help appreciated.

 

Tony

This is the Ruston shunter that was latterly at Broad Clyst and Yeovil Junction? The only colour picture I've ever seen of this showed what looked like BR (Southern Region) passenger stock green with a light coloured radiator surround (possibly yellow). When acquired from the Bristol Aeroplane Company, however, I'd be surprised if it was any colour other than the standard Ruston finish, an olive green. I've got a really good picture of it taken at Yeovil Junction: I'll see if I can find it.

 

Adam

[Tony Teague]

Thanks Adam, and yes, this is the DS48 that you are talking about. I am modelling SR just around the time of nationalisation and so I need to know the early livery - which sounds like it might just be that standard olive.

Great if you can locate a picture.

Best wishes

Tony

[Rivercider]

There is an undated close-up photo of DS1169 at Folkestone in 'A Pictorial Record of the Diesel Shunter' by Colin Marsden.

Being a black and white photo is not very helpful, but it does look to be the same, or similar, colour all over,

the bonnet front for example does not appear to be a lighter colour.

 

As an aside I have lived in Weston-super-Mare for 45 years, and never knew there had been an industrial diesel shunter

at the Bristol Aeroplane factory! (albeit over 10 years before I was born)

 

cheers 

[Adam]

Here we go. I'm not sure of the date, but the photographer was a railwayman based at Yeovil and this picture was taken in the course of his duties. Members of Yeovil MRG were asked to clear the house and this was one of the pictures that emerged. This is not the condition in which it was acquired by the SR...

 

 

Adam

Edited May 17, 2016 by Adam

[Tony Teague]

Thanks to all for your help.

Rivercider - I now realise that I have a copy of the book you mention and have found the picture / thanks for the reminder.

21C1 - thanks, I agree with this but I can't find a picture in plain black and the number plate carried by the loco in all pictures is non-standard (as shown by Adam, above); in addition, the number plate as shown in the earlier picture at Folkestone, in the book mentioned by Rivercider, looks darker than the paintwork surrounding it, so I am veering towards the early livery perhaps being as per R&H delivery, i.e. drab olive as mentioned by Adam.

On the subject of the Bristol Aeroplane Company - they actually took delivery of two DS48's and I can't see that the second one was disposed of so quickly - So I am guessing that it stayed there for a while; this one had thenext lower R&H sequence number to the one transferred to SR and was delivered in April 1946.

Best wishes

Tony

[pete_mcfarlane]

There's an interesting RCTS photo on this page (I can't link to the actual photo) which shows that the cab rear wasn't painted the same light colour as the bonnet end. The number looks suspiciously like a car numberplate of the period. 

[Adam]

And this - which I hadn't seen before now: http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p395858735/h1670D20A#h1670d20a

 

This confirms the heavy fading and - to me anyway, the green looks like heavily faded BR(S) stock green. This image on ebay (though I'm sure I've seen it somewhere else, Railway Bylines, perhaps?) shows the earlier livery and supports my thought that it was bought by the SR in standard Ruston finish:

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE0MlgxNjAw/z/tfIAAOSwU9xUTStb/$_1.JPG

 

Adam

Edited May 20, 2016 by Adam

[foggy2]

I saw this many years ago from the Devonian en route to Torbay. It was most definitely pale green. Dont recall the nosecone colour. The number plate was of the motor vehicle type, with plastic letters on lightweight pressed metal backplate. Date would be circa1968.

[Tony Teague]

Many thanks everyone; I am most grateful for all of your help.

Tony

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'm now painting my own model of DS1169 and there a re afew things I've noticed. Based on photos, it seems to have started out in BR service as a standard Ruston loco with a Ruston logo on the radiator.

 

The car number-plates were acquired whilst on the Southern. 

 

The white radiator seems to have appeared after the transfer to the WR in 1962. 

 

It also lost the angle iron derail guards on the buffer beams at some point in the 1960s. The cab opening were plated in at some point, along with the ability to completely secure the cab (to stop vandals and/or snow and rain getting in). 

 

I also have a sneaking suspicion that the green it carries in the colour photo is just a faded version of the Ruston paint job it had when it left the factory. 

 

I'm basing my model on the photo in BR Fleet Survey volume 7: Diesel Shunters. It was take on 28/-3/1970, and shows the loco with a white end, no derail guards, enclosed cab opening and car numberplates on the cab sides. 

[Tony Teague]

I'm now painting my own model of DS1169 and there a re afew things I've noticed. Based on photos, it seems to have started out in BR service as a standard Ruston loco with a Ruston logo on the radiator.

 

The car number-plates were acquired whilst on the Southern. 

 

The white radiator seems to have appeared after the transfer to the WR in 1962. 

 

It also lost the angle iron derail guards on the buffer beams at some point in the 1960s. The cab opening were plated in at some point, along with the ability to completely secure the cab (to stop vandals and/or snow and rain getting in). 

 

I also have a sneaking suspicion that the green it carries in the colour photo is just a faded version of the Ruston paint job it had when it left the factory. 

 

I'm basing my model on the photo in BR Fleet Survey volume 7: Diesel Shunters. It was take on 28/-3/1970, and shows the loco with a white end, no derail guards, enclosed cab opening and car numberplates on the cab sides. 

Hi Pete

 

I reached the same conclusion concerning the ex-Ruston paint job, although I am modelling a much earlier period than you (1938 - 48), so I went without car numberplates.

At great risk of someone telling me I got it wrong, here are a couple of pictures of my loco in action.

I take no credit for building or painting the kit which was undertaken for me by Chris Phillips - extremely well, I think!

 

Tony

[pete_mcfarlane]

That's rather nice. Is it the Judith Edge kit?

 

I was also wondering if the white paint on the radiator was intended as an undercoat for the standard warning yellow, and it never got any further than that for some reason. Possibly because nobody could be bothered to finish the job. By the late 1960s DS1169 must have been the only BR diesel loco without yellow ends. 

[Adam]

That's rather nice. Is it the Judith Edge kit?

 

I was also wondering if the white paint on the radiator was intended as an undercoat for the standard warning yellow, and it never got any further than that for some reason. Possibly because nobody could be bothered to finish the job. By the late 1960s DS1169 must have been the only BR diesel loco without yellow ends. 

 

Here's another black and white image: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/305825/24647711

 

It was definitely yellow - I doubt that the paintjob was every posh enough to have bothered with undercoat. On the SEMG group there is a picture by David Mant showing the yellow end in a slightly less faded condition in February 1973. This link will probably only work if you're a member, but it's definitely yellow:

 

https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SEmG/conversations/topics/144865

 

Adam

Edited August 26, 2016 by Adam

[N15class]

To me the radiator in the colour picture looks more a faded yellow almost cream in colour.

 

Lovely model Pete

[Tony Teague]

That's rather nice. Is it the Judith Edge kit?

 

I was also wondering if the white paint on the radiator was intended as an undercoat for the standard warning yellow, and it never got any further than that for some reason. Possibly because nobody could be bothered to finish the job. By the late 1960s DS1169 must have been the only BR diesel loco without yellow ends. 

Pete

Yes it is the Judith Edge kit with the addition of two crew by Masterpiece Falcon Figures (Martin Hill).

Best wishes

Tony

[randyrippley]

I saw this little engine many times in the early 1970's at Yeovil. The photo at http://railphotoprints.uk/p852530460/h63ED4264#h63ed4264 is a fairly good representation of how it looked close to the end of its life.

It was a very dirty  faded flat matte pale green. I've seen other Ruston industrial locos in the same colour, though in a better state  (e.g. at Radstock in the 1970's number 20 or 24)

I strongly suspect it was never repainted from new. It wasn't olive, it wasn't BR green. The yellow on the bonnet was almost certainly a locally applied DIY job with whatever cheap yellow paint was available - it was faded to dull off-white, with rust stripes.

The end of the loco came because it was rusted so badly the roof fell off in ~1972. Rumour had it that it was used for a few days roofless before health and safety kicked in. It sat at Yeovil Junction for nearly three years wrapped in a tarpaulin before it was finally scrapped. I've read somewhere that it was scrapped in 1972 - thats clearly wrong, it was still laid up at Yeovil in 1974

[pete_mcfarlane]

Falling to bits due to rust also tends to suggest that it was never repainted. 

[randyrippley]

Just a few more thoughts on this

1) The "Observers Book of Railway Locomotives" for 1964 shows this locomotive as having the yellow nose paint. It also shows all doors / windows completely covered

2) The nose cowl is curved (as in the picture I linked to earlier) without a Ruston logo on the nose.

3) The book claims the loco was built by Bristol Aeroplane (not by Ruston) in 1946, and I've also read that comment elsewhere. Is it possible Bristol knocked it together from mechanicals supplied by Ruston? In 1946 Bristol had a lot of spare capacity and would have been struggling for work. I can see it being built as an experiment

[Dunsignalling]

Just a few more thoughts on this

1) The "Observers Book of Railway Locomotives" for 1964 shows this locomotive as having the yellow nose paint. It also shows all doors / windows completely covered

2) The nose cowl is curved (as in the picture I linked to earlier) without a Ruston logo on the nose.

3) The book claims the loco was built by Bristol Aeroplane (not by Ruston) in 1946, and I've also read that comment elsewhere. Is it possible Bristol knocked it together from mechanicals supplied by Ruston? In 1946 Bristol had a lot of spare capacity and would have been struggling for work. I can see it being built as an experiment

According to the Ian Allan Combine for 1963, the loco was supplied to the Bristol Aeroplane Company in 1946, i.e. they were the first owners.

 

John

Edited June 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Teague]

Within David R. Hall's comprehensive history of "The Ruston Class 48DS & 88DS locomotives", published by the Moseley Railway Trust, ISBN 0-9540878-4-4, he provides Workslists for each of the two classes, in which he lists this loco as Works No.237922, Engine No.236268, ex-works 4th April 1946 to the Bristol Aeroplane Company, Weston-Super-Mare. I don't think its origin is in any doubt.

[randyrippley]

Just came across this collection of photos

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/48ds/

 

this one is close, but not faded or dirty enough

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34938158@N02/3252088589/in/photolist-TtbrFc-gDTpiz-gBwTcV-bcnVUT-c4n48y-oys1Pg-spomxZ-oXcV2D-ocd3oV-dTyFUY-AkjHH6-oSDhv1-bdWqCp-VLt1Q1-kYDBk1-ATa7SY-AUueRu-pUoMSS-AVmbet-b33PKF-ffF6j1-coWCWf-fSokBW-5XnNCV-b33PKT-5XAyQX-9T2p5J-oVEv2H-eH34ua-fcgTfL-nVXWB7-nM2MVh-eH3dbp-o2v3kY-f9tb7Q-aLbmAg-5XEFLh-avvHVs-RRom14-euWUdm-67WDEp-exxPTd-fc2BdR-dS7xX8-e1Ve8y-b9s69t-cQtgXN-6yh5dT-dTyD2Q-aeazu8

[Tony Teague]

Excellent pictures!

Thank you

[KeithMacdonald]

@Tony Teague

Another picture of DS1169 has surfaced at Rail Online.

 

Quote

The diminutive Ruston Hornsby DS1169 at the Broad Clyst engineering depot near Yeovil on 6th July 1961. Built by Ruston and Hornsby to their DS48 design it was delivered new to the Bristol Aeroplane Company at Weston-super-Mare, it was sold on to BR (Southern Region) in 1948, initially being employed at Folkestone Warren PW depot until 1962, when it was transferred to Broad Clyst .

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p265322570/h9c32c58c#h9c32c58c

[Nearholmer]

Allowing for film emulsion, and the filthy condition of the loco, that looks like ‘faded Ruston colour’ to me, but the fact that the added plate-work in the cab opening matches so perfectly suggests that it is a SR/BR colour, applied during work on the loco. Which SR/BR colour I couldn’t say.

 

There is a tiny patch of what is almost certainly original Ruston colour visible inside the cab, where the light manages to penetrate. 

 

BTW, the use of car number plates, those pressed aluminium ones, on locos was widespread on the Bord na Mona railways in Ireland, and for fleet numbers on all their other plant and machinery, and that plus a BnM style numbering system, numbers beginning LM, was used in Britain by Murphy on their locos. I’ve never worked out whether Murphy copied BnM, or vice versa.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Nearholmer