The Varsity Line - What if it had not closed in 1967?

[chris p bacon]

The 31s with coaches were the shuttles operated as dmu replacements by Fragonset in the 90s. I was working at the Kempston Fire HQ at the time and managed to get a few pics of them. 

 

 

 

 I also got some piccies out on the line. They did a lot of damage to the track when they operated as they "dug in" when they acelerated away.

 

I have spotting notes that show all that worked through Potton for the last few years up to closure, I'll try and find them.

[Edwardian]

Important that it closed.  To paraphrase a certain Kiwi Premier, every time someone leaves Cambridge for Oxford the average IQ  of both Cities is increased. 

[PenrithBeacon]

There remains the possibility that it will re-open without demolishing the telescopes!

[Rivercider]

In the early 1980s there was daily stone traffic in PGAs from ARC Tytherington to Wolverton hauled by pairs of class 37s,

these later gave way to a class 56 on the working.

There was also regular traffic from Tytherington to Oxford Banbury Road, loaded in MSVs hauled by class 45/46/47.

 

If the through route had remained open might stone traffic from Tytherington have been hauled further east,

or was supply from the East Midlands direction, or is there a local source of aggregates?

 

cheers 

[stivesnick]

Interesting idea

 

In early NSE days, Cambridge had some Class 101 to work to Royston and Kings Lynn before these lines were electrified. Had the line remained open, it is possible there would have been two types of passenger service, a all stations local between Cambridge and Bedford and a long distance, limited stop service that by-passed Bedford Midland (and need to reverse) - could have been loco hauled - Class 47 were used on the Kings Lynn service in NSE times.

 

There were a number of daily local Speedlink freight trips workings in the 1980s from Cambridge to various terminals. Traffic was grain, domestic coal, fertilizer and chemicals to the Ciba Geigy plant. Any one of these would make an interesting siding on the layout. For a time Cambridge shed was sued by the parcels sector as a depot so parcels trains would be a possibility.

 

As noted in other posts, plans are being developed to restore a rail link between Bedford and Cambridge. Work is ongoing to identify a route - but likely to be a new route to give higher speeds- an Oxford-Cambridge time of 75 minutes is the target.

 

Look forward to seeing how this idea develops.

 

Nick

[jonny777]

Once Milton Keynes was invented, the Oxford - Bletchley bit might have been a reasonable secondary line, probably taking the Southampton to WCML (non-Birmingham) freight as well as a passenger service along the lines of the Cardiff - Portsmouths (Southampton/ Reading - Northampton/ Rugby, maybe?). So a 31 on about 5, developing into an hourly RR service of sprinters or similar.

 

This is something which always intrigues me. The original plan for Milton Keynes was made public on maps in 1967.

 

I cannot believe there was no government discussion in various civil service departments a year or two before that date, as these plans do not just emerge out of thin air.

 

Therefore the plans for Milton Keynes must have been well advanced before the Oxford - Cambridge line closed. This suggests to me a certain amount of pro-road conspiracy in the DOT (as it was then) in order that the civil servants could copy their macho "nirvana" of USA-style road grid patterned ideas.

 

At the time, I remember thinking that closing the railway was an unbelievably short sighted thing to do, when the need for cross country routes in that area would increase if a town that size was actually created; and even Beeching had not been so stupid as to list it for closure, especially after the money had been invested in the Bletchley flyover. 

 

However, the hypothetical future of the line (had it remained open) would depend on the amount of gumption and long term planning one might give the folk at the top of BR in those days, so it is probably best just to ignore them and go for common sense.

 

(The line was very busy during WW2. Maybe in 1946 the politicians thought "now the war is finished, everyone will want to travel via London for all their rail journeys in the future". )

 

The Birmingham - Norwich services had 31/4s and Mk1s for many years (even 45s in later times), so I see no reason why an Oxford to Norwich service could not have employed the same. Of course, with hypothetical cases, it is possible to use theoretical ideas and surmise that once the class 120s were made redundant from the Thames Valley route in 1976, they might have been deployed on services to Cambridge.

 

With freight services, the potential for variety would be large given the connections to Southampton for freightliners, and to the Berks and Hants for aggregates. Who knows, a number of MGR trains to/from Didcot may have been diverted that way had a proper upgraded spur been built from the Midland to the St Johns line in Bedford much earlier.

[Nearholmer]

MK was devised at the very moment when "everyone" thought that railways were a dead technology, and that the car was to be the great liberator. The whole town was planned on that basis, and the idea of rail links, just like the idea of a tam system within the town, which would have been dead easy to create as the place was being developed, just weren't "on the radar".

 

Of course, now that the car has become something of a tyrant, rather than liberator ........

 

K

[stewartingram]

I've read that MK was designed to incorporate a tramway LRT system; the bridges and dual carriageways having room for this. Sadly the idea was never carried through.

 

Stewart

Edited June 4, 2016 by stewartingram

[Peter Kazmierczak]

It wasn't until 1982 that Milton Keynes had its own railway station.

[Nearholmer]

Stewart

 

I've read that too, and that it was to be a monorail, but I've never seen any evidence cited, and all of the "over-wide" road infrastructure is a function of building with the possibility of creating dual-carriageways.

 

The whole town was originally laid-out by a Californian planner, who was deliberately trying to create something effectively centre-less, with even distribution of movement, which is exactly what tramways are not good for - they are only economic for concentrated flows.

 

Anyway, bee as I have in my bonnet about transport provision along the whole of the "varsity corridor", I will say no more,because it isn't really what the OP was looking for.

 

I do recall the Class 31s in black and red livery working on the Marston Vale line, but can't remember what they hauled. Anyone know?

 

K

[Fat Controller]

Stewart

 

I've read that too, and that it was to be a monorail, but I've never seen any evidence cited, and all of the "over-wide" road infrastructure is a function of building with the possibility of creating dual-carriageways.

 

The whole town was originally laid-out by a Californian planner, who was deliberately trying to create something effectively centre-less, with even distribution of movement, which is exactly what tramways are not good for - they are only economic for concentrated flows.

 

Anyway, bee as I have in my bonnet about transport provision along the whole of the "varsity corridor", I will say no more,because it isn't really what the OP was looking for.

 

I do recall the Class 31s in black and red livery working on the Marston Vale line, but can't remember what they hauled. Anyone know?

 

K

Weren't the black and red 31s sandwiching a couple of coaches during teething problems with second-generation units? Or was it something to do with an anniversary of the opening of the line?

Edited June 4, 2016 by Fat Controller

[stewartingram]

My shots of the trains:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And just for completeness

 

 

Stewart

 

[Nearholmer]

Cracking!

 

I'd completely forgotten that was what they were like. I should imagine that the customers were overcome by the luxury of it all.

 

K

Edited June 4, 2016 by Nearholmer

['CHARD]

The Birmingham - Norwich services had 31/4s and Mk1s for many years (even 45s in later times), so I see no reason why an Oxford to Norwich service could not have employed the same. 

 

The 31/4s appeared on this route in the early eighties, allocated to March, and the transition from loco haulage to Norwich Class 156s happened when the Tinsley based 45s had all but been withdrawn.  Did they really work the Birmingham - Norwich except in the event of a Leicester failure, on the run back to Brum?  

[wagonman]

The 31/4s appeared on this route in the early eighties, allocated to March, and the transition from loco haulage to Norwich Class 156s happened when the Tinsley based 45s had all but been withdrawn.  Did they really work the Birmingham - Norwich except in the event of a Leicester failure, on the run back to Brum?  

 

 

The Birmingham trains that I observed in Norwich station in the late '80s were always class 31 hauled. They usually consisted of 5 coaches and a couple of vans. They were replaced by regularly overcrowded 2 coach sprinters and a fleet of lorries. Ah, progress!

[D854_Tiger]

 

This is an embryonic idea for a new layout based on the premise of the Varsity Line surviving beyond the 1967 closures of sections of the line. Despite several attempts to close the line as a whole or just sections of the line, local politicians stepped in and forced the British Railways Board to maintain services along the entirety of the route. I'm planning to model a section of line near the Cambridge end during the 1980's. I've fairly sensibly assumed that the line will not have been electrified but I'm not sure what locomotives, DMUs, etc would have used the line. I remember class 31s being common at Cambridge along with 37s (I grew up near Cambridge) with pictures of Cambridge station in 1980s showing Cravens 105/106 DMUs being used too. What stock might have been used on the Varsity Line, I suspect a solitary 105 for stopping service between Cambridge and Bedford with locomotive hauled for faster Cambridge - Bedford - Oxford expresses (possibly class 50s or even Deltics eking out a second career until eventual withdrawal in the late '80s like the class 50s) but what do you think? After sectorisation who would have run the services; NSE or Provincial and would Intercity have taken responsibility for running a fast service between the two university cities?

 

I'd be interested to hear your opinions and suggestions on this idea.

 

 

The section of the Varsity line west of Bletchley remained in use until 1993, well into the more enlightened era of railway development.

 

Even then, it wasn't so much closed as just fell into disuse, suggesting there was little need for it at the time, from a freight perspective. So even if it had survived, the sort of railway that could have gone many days, even weeks, between use.

 

The potential for passenger use towards Milton Keynes was probably frustrated by the junction arrangements at Bletchley.

 

A truly realistic layout would probably look more like Coalville to Burton does nowadays.

 

But hey, this is model railways, so a Virgin operated Deltic plus 7, XC HSTs and Virgin class 47s with mk2, plying their way along the route, on their way from Coventry to Oxford, is not so unlikely.

[D854_Tiger]

The Birmingham trains that I observed in Norwich station in the late '80s were always class 31 hauled. They usually consisted of 5 coaches and a couple of vans. They were replaced by regularly overcrowded 2 coach sprinters and a fleet of lorries. Ah, progress!

 

Those class 156 sprinters made more stops as well, which didn't help with the overcrowding.

 

The class 31 hauled service was limited stop - New St, Nuneaton, Leicester, Peterborough, March, Thetford and Norwich.

 

One rather interesting idea that emerged, around that time (but never happened), for summer Saturdays (covered in Rail Magazine), was for the through Walsall and New St to Yarmouth service to run via the NLL composed of two class 310 units with a diesel drag from Norwich.

 

In the event, they found a rather motley set of just four mk1s (they seriously looked as if they could be flea infested), with a class 47, running round the world (it took forever).

 

The route was Castle Donnington, Nottingham, Grantham, Peterborough, Ely (reverse) and Norwich (reverse).

[Clearwater]

The 31/4s appeared on this route in the early eighties, allocated to March, and the transition from loco haulage to Norwich Class 156s happened when the Tinsley based 45s had all but been withdrawn.  Did they really work the Birmingham - Norwich except in the event of a Leicester failure, on the run back to Brum?

 

My recollection of the early / mid 80s is of 31/4s on that service too

 

David

[Smiffy@brizzle]

Anyway, bee as I have in my bonnet about transport provision along the whole of the "varsity corridor", I will say no more,because it isn't really what the OP was looking for. - Nearholmer

 

Feel free to carry on about this, interesting asides from the original conversation are something I always find interesting.

 

The section of the Varsity line west of Bletchley remained in use until 1993, well into the more enlightened era of railway development.

 

Even then, it wasn't so much closed as just fell into disuse, suggesting there was little need for it at the time, from a freight perspective. So even if it had survived, the sort of railway that could have gone many days, even weeks, between use.

 

The potential for passenger use towards Milton Keynes was probably frustrated by the junction arrangements at Bletchley.

 

A truly realistic layout would probably look more like Coalville to Burton does nowadays. - D854_Tiger

 

I would have thought with the entire length of the Varsity line still open that it would be more heavily used than sad stump that actually exists. It was said that the line's usage declined as it became quicker to travel into London and then back out again to Oxford/Cambridge than travel direct between the two perhaps suggesting that an express service may have had some success. I have to say the idea of a derelict station with the freight services rattling through with maybe the odd rerouted weekend passenger service to avoid closures elsewhere on the network does hold some appeal. 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Smiffy@brizzle

[Nearholmer]

Has anyone mentioned the services that did run from Aylesbury to Bletchley during the twilight years?

 

There were certainly ECS to and from Bletchley depot, but I have a hazy recollection of a newspaper or parcels train too. Did I dream that?

 

Kevin

 

PS: seems I did not dream it, and that there was more http://www.derbysulzers.com/aylesbury.html

This could make an interesting layout in itself, with Class 25s nosing through the brambles to various far-flung places.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

The section of the Varsity line west of Bletchley remained in use until 1993, well into the more enlightened era of railway development.

 

Even then, it wasn't so much closed as just fell into disuse, suggesting there was little need for it at the time, from a freight perspective. So even if it had survived, the sort of railway that could have gone many days, even weeks, between use.

 

The potential for passenger use towards Milton Keynes was probably frustrated by the junction arrangements at Bletchley.

 

A truly realistic layout would probably look more like Coalville to Burton does nowadays.

 

But hey, this is model railways, so a Virgin operated Deltic plus 7, XC HSTs and Virgin class 47s with mk2, plying their way along the route, on their way from Coventry to Oxford, is not so unlikely.

 

Oxford to Bletchley fell firmly into Trainload Freight's hands following the 1992 reorganisation as it was the only business sector which made any use of.  We had an inspection special over it during that year which I suspect in some ways arose because there was a bit of horse trading (or more likely attempted cost shedding) going on between the sub-sectors over who would pick up the costs which included the signalbox at Claydon LNE Jcn.  At that time the route wasn't in bad condition although the linespeed had been reduced to 40mph (from 60 or 50 depending on location) in the early 1970s.

 

But as noted it gradually fell into disuse beyond Bicester due to there being no traffic needing to use it.

[runs as required]

What about all those real ale drinking Oxbridge Bullingdon Railway Club undergrads - many of whom will have morphed into Fellows of Colleges and eventually Dons across "at the other place"?

They would surely have demanded more than a Craven unit...

...because they once had this!

They could have persuaded a rich dad to refurbish the LMS relic eventually been used for OHL installation south from Manchester.

If not, what about a Swindon Cross Country Trans Pennine survivor or a Hastings DEMU with buffet?

And when did the Blue Pullmans get broken up? They'd have really looked the part in light and dark blue.

 

dh

[Nearholmer]

Some excellent pictures from the Wilderness Years here, which should aid the OP.

http://petertandy.co.uk/Bucks&ox_page.html

 

K

[Clearwater]

What about all those real ale drinking Oxbridge Bullingdon Railway Club undergrads - many of whom will have morphed into Fellows of Colleges and eventually Dons across "at the other place"?

 

And when did the Blue Pullmans get broken up? They'd have really looked the part in light and dark blue.

 

dh

I understand the Oxford Uni Rail Club In The 60s used to charter trains and even a branch line?

 

I suspect the Bullingdon had a limited cross over with the Rail Club. However, I know of at least one ex-member who is now happy to be photographed with narrow gauge locos

[Fat Controller]

The Aylesbury- Bletchley traffic was periodicals from Cap'n Bob's printing works at Aylesbury; mainly in ex-Insulfish vans.

The Blue Pullmans were broken up by mid-1974; I remember going in to a scrapyard on the Morriston branch to have a look at them during the summer.