More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

I went to the Basingstoke show today - an interesting selection of layouts, as always - and spent some time chatting with various acquaintances.

 

I was dismayed to find that, as far as I could discover, there was no-one selling plastic wagon kits, apart from a very small number of Cambrian kits of hopper wagons on display on one stand and some Slaters O gauge kits on the C&L stand. This I find fundamentally puzzling. there was no shortage of stand selling plastic kits for scenic items - buildings etc. - many at least as complex as a wagon kit, if not more so. So, if folk are expected to want to buy these, why not wagon kits?

 

In a jaundiced mood, I might say that our hobby is largely no longer 'railway modelling' but has become 'scenic modelling' - this is something I find with the commercial magazines too. 

[corneliuslundie]

Is it because there are now so many much better RTR wagons that kit building is less necessary? And the latest announcement of a 1907 RCH design will make even more kits redundant.

After all there is even now a Rhymney van RTR.

And I am not buying any wagon kits. 240 wagons is enough.

Mind you, at the Welsh Railways Research Circle Publications Working Group meeting today we were talking about the desirability of a layout's company being evident without any rolling stock present. That means buildings and scenery.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Mind you, at the Welsh Railways Research Circle Publications Working Group meeting today we were talking about the desirability of a layout's company being evident without any rolling stock present. That means buildings and scenery.

 

I suppose, as someone who enjoys building rolling stock but doesn't particularly enjoy building scenery, I take the opposite view! (And do I infer that the WRRC has insufficient publications in the pipeline to keep this WG fully focused on its task?)

[Andy Hayter]

18 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Is it because there are now so many much better RTR wagons that kit building is less necessary? And the latest announcement of a 1907 RCH design will make even more kits redundant.

.

Jonathan

 

 

Really?

AFAIAA

no LYR wagons rtr and kits as rare as rocking horse poo if you exclude brake vans

GNR - yes we will get a loco coal wagon to RCH standards but most of their wagons of the period were on 9'6" wheelbase chassis.  We actually have more GER wagons - nothing wrong with that of course.

H&BR?

GCR - a few kits and Bachmann's 3 wagon club set where one is LNER and another CLC. 

.  

There are many holes even allowing for the promised but not yet delivered wagons.

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Really?

 

Indeed. One might mention the great gaping absence from the RTR field of any Midland wagon, despite there being several types of which there were many thousands built and a good number surviving into the 1950s - far more numerous than the various types from the southern companies that have been done. 

[Andy Hayter]

I agree Stephen I was more focused on the overall availability where the Midland at least gets a showing courtesy of Slaters.

[MR Chuffer]

8 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

no LYR wagons rtr

Perhaps, but looking forward to tackling these although I have quite a few Geen kits, L&Y Diagram 3 and L&Y Diagram 1 , though I'm a bit concerned how I might weight the Dia. 1 2-part kit, unlike the whitemetal Geens...

Edited March 10 by MR Chuffer

[billbedford]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

In a jaundiced mood, I might say that our hobby is largely no longer 'railway modelling' but has become 'scenic modelling' - this is something I find with the commercial magazines too. 

 

Ah, so. The feminisation of society has caught up with model railways?

[Northroader]

I think that you should be able to look at a layout with no trains being present, and get an impression of where it’s meant to be, so that scenery can give a geographical impression, and the buildings and infrastructure such as signals give a much firmer idea of the company involved. If you look at a bare board populated by D299 wagons, you’re left asking “where’s this?”

[Nick C]

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I went to the Basingstoke show today - an interesting selection of layouts, as always - and spent some time chatting with various acquaintances.

 

I was dismayed to find that, as far as I could discover, there was no-one selling plastic wagon kits, apart from a very small number of Cambrian kits of hopper wagons on display on one stand and some Slaters O gauge kits on the C&L stand. This I find fundamentally puzzling. there was no shortage of stand selling plastic kits for scenic items - buildings etc. - many at least as complex as a wagon kit, if not more so. So, if folk are expected to want to buy these, why not wagon kits?

 

In a jaundiced mood, I might say that our hobby is largely no longer 'railway modelling' but has become 'scenic modelling' - this is something I find with the commercial magazines too. 

Didn't Kernow's have any? I know they stock Slaters, Cambrian and Parkside, but didn’t look through their stand yesterday.

[Rail-Online]

I was at Abingdon show last weekend and here too you could not buy a plastic wagon kit. Nor wheels, nor couplings...............

 

Tony

[corneliuslundie]

And almost certainly no 12 inch steel buffer heads anywhere at the moment.

Jonathan 

[airnimal]

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I went to the Basingstoke show today - an interesting selection of layouts, as always - and spent some time chatting with various acquaintances.

 

I was dismayed to find that, as far as I could discover, there was no-one selling plastic wagon kits, apart from a very small number of Cambrian kits of hopper wagons on display on one stand and some Slaters O gauge kits on the C&L stand. This I find fundamentally puzzling. there was no shortage of stand selling plastic kits for scenic items - buildings etc. - many at least as complex as a wagon kit, if not more so. So, if folk are expected to want to buy these, why not wagon kits?

 

In a jaundiced mood, I might say that our hobby is largely no longer 'railway modelling' but has become 'scenic modelling' - this is something I find with the commercial magazines too. 

If you think you are hard done by, what about the poor old dinosaurs like myself trying to find obscure parts for scratch building.  Even if parts are produced very few traders will stock them because the market is drying up. With only the GOG annual meeting now at Stafford as a likely source of fittings we are left with mail order only. Would anyone in the right mind pay £5 p&p charge on a small component costing less than that. 

[billbedford]

36 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

And almost certainly no 12 inch steel buffer heads anywhere at the moment.

 

 

I believe that Colin Seymore is now the only manufacturer of steel buffers, so you will have to wait until he finds his round tuit. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Rail-Online said:

I was at Abingdon show last weekend and here too you could not buy a plastic wagon kit. Nor wheels, nor couplings...............

 

Likewise - sorry to have missed you.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

Didn't Kernow's have any? I know they stock Slaters, Cambrian and Parkside, but didn’t look through their stand yesterday.

 

As far as I could see, Kernow's stand was wall-to-wall RTR boxes. I suppose they calculate that give the best return on the stand hire.

[Compound2632]

57 minutes ago, airnimal said:

If you think you are hard done by, what about the poor old dinosaurs like myself trying to find obscure parts for scratch building.  Even if parts are produced very few traders will stock them because the market is drying up. With only the GOG annual meeting now at Stafford as a likely source of fittings we are left with mail order only. Would anyone in the right mind pay £5 p&p charge on a small component costing less than that. 

 

A while ago I was instructed by a couple of well-known Midland S7 modellers (you know who they are, I'm sure) to take up S7. But looking around, there's not, as far as I could see, any equivalent of the MJT and 51L ranges of wagon fittings etc. But even so, those are chiefly by mail order - Drat Castings still do some shows but Andrew at Wizard has given up on that. It's a case of planning one's needs and making a bulk order as and when.

[Nick C]

H & A models had a big stand at Southampton, with kits etc. I'm not sure which other shows they do though.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Nick C said:

H & A models had a big stand at Southampton, with kits etc. I'm not sure which other shows they do though.

 

They were ate GETS in Milton Keynes - which I was only at because of helping with the MRS stand - and were the only decent trade stand there - the only place one could get Precision paint for instance. I've started using them for mail order too - I was alerted, by @MrWolf I think, to them as a supplier of turned buffer-heads - the short shank variety, not the long-tailed sort for springing.

 

I am fortunate that three big finescale shows with good trade stands are in easy reach - ExpoEM in Bracknell, Scaleforum in High Wycombe, and RailEx at Stoke Madeville.

Edited March 10 by Compound2632

[billbedford]

14 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I was dismayed to find that, as far as I could discover, there was no-one selling plastic wagon kits, apart from a very small number of Cambrian kits of hopper wagons on display on one stand and some Slaters O gauge kits on the C&L stand.

 

There are not enough customers to make taking wagon kits to shows worthwhile. Or at least too many potential customers have bought themselves Leeds trousers. You know the ones where the pockets are too tight to get their wallet out. 

[corneliuslundie]

Or like me already have about 240 wagons kit or scratch built and running out of space (or need) for more.

Until recently my standard procedure if a modelling project was not going well was to put it to one side for a while and build a wagon, whether kit or scratch built. But not now.

Jonathan

[Andy Hayter]

5 hours ago, MR Chuffer said:

Perhaps, but looking forward to tackling these although I have quite a few Geen kits, L&Y Diagram 3 and L&Y Diagram 1 , though I'm a bit concerned how I might weight the Dia. 1 2-part kit, unlike the whitemetal Geens...

 

Selective quoting missed off the "kits are as rare as rocking horse poo".  I and many others would wish that David's range would reappear.   Until then keep your rarities safe.

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A while ago I was instructed by a couple of well-known Midland S7 modellers (you know who they are, I'm sure) to take up S7. But looking around, there's not, as far as I could see, any equivalent of the MJT and 51L ranges of wagon fittings etc. But even so, those are chiefly by mail order - Drat Castings still do some shows but Andrew at Wizard has given up on that. It's a case of planning one's needs and making a bulk order as and when.

It's even worse when La Poste imposes illegal customs charges on such small parcels.  I have to get things sent to whichever friends or children are due to visit next. 

 

Jamie

[Andy Hayter]

Sadly not illegal @jamie92208.  French customs site clearly states that VAT is applicable from the first euro for all imports from outside the EU.

 

The old rules of thirty something euros being exempt was rescinded by the EU a couple of years ago.  You are right though that it makes buying small low value items hellishly expensive.   

 

One thing that can help is if you ask the seller to include your email address in the commercial invoice.  This usually results in an email from La Poste's  import department demanding the VAT but with a reduced fee to La Poste.

[Compound2632]

Aprops this discussion of parts by post, my Dart Castings MJT order arrived yesterday - prompt service as usual from them - so the GW 3-plank is up on both its wheels:

 

 

It looks as if it's riding high but in fact only by a whisker. The MJT axleguard units have their lugs up - held in place by cyanoing the lugs to the underside of the floor. 

 

The best reference I've got for an iron-framed 3-plank is this flat-ended example:

 

 

Embedded link to photo in @Mikkel's post here:

According to my notes from Atkins et al., No. 34920 is from os Lot 289, the second lot with flat ends, so I'm hoping that its condition is otherwise representative of the last lots with round ends. What I'm ignorant of is when iron frames were adopted, in other words what range of lots I'm looking at for a number.

 

Anyway, in conversation with @Western Star at Basingstoke yesterday, I learned that (unsurprisingly) Atkins et al. is unreliable on these 3-plank wagons.

 

Apart from brakes, brake vee-hanger, and lever, I've realised I also need to bodge up some wooden spring stops - as for my Salthey wagons - and modify the spring shoes to represent the solid type.

 

At least by doing one of these iron framed wagons rather than one of the earlier wood-framed ones, I avoid the faff of having to make another curved brake lever:

 

 

[Crop from Warwickshire Railways lnwra3633, LNWR Windsor Street Goods Station, 1903.]