For those who like old Motorcycles.

[2mmMark]

Old in design, if not in actuality, my 2001 Ural 650 combo "Rhubarb & Custard". ¼ tonne of solid Russian steel.

 

 

Mark

 

[Diesel Dayz]

I love this topic! I've ridden motorbikes for nigh on forty years. To me it's a way of life. Heavily involved in Road Racing as a technical official. TBH never really liked the older stuff (British) until a few years ago when I got involved with the classic and vintage side of

the racing.

After taking early retirement in December last year, I had to find something to keep me occupied (other than model railways and housework)!

Much to the wife's disgust I've suddenly gone from one bike to five! I must add that three of these are projects that, when finished will be sold on to fund the next project(s).

At present I have got:

1) Honda VTR1000 Firestorm that I refurbed between November 2015 & March of this year and is my main bike.

2) Honda 400 Bros. Jap import, unregistered. Just done an engine transplant and waiting for the tank to comeback from painter.

3) Suzuki GSXF750. Another engine transplant! Who said Japanese bikes don't leak oil?

4) Honda VFR400. Bought as a 'box' of bits and is now probably 90% complete.

and

5) Kawasaki GPZ500s. 8200 mls from new bought on Sunday. Needs a little bit of fettling but its got a years MOT on it and is usable.

VTR1000

[PatB]

Old in design, if not in actuality, my 2001 Ural 650 combo "Rhubarb & Custard". ¼ tonne of solid Russian steel.

 

DSC00594a.JPG

 

Mark

 

Nice. MrsB and I had a 2008 Ural (first one out of the first container into Australia of the current generation bikes), bought new in Newcastle on the East Coast and driven (by me) straight from the showroom to Perth, 4000km away to the west, as described here.

 

We sold it a couple of years ago because it wasn't getting used and we were in somewhat desperate need of the cash. It was a lot of fun while it lasted though.

[HeeleyBridge]

 

The old fella around 1950 (white helmet).

[DDolfelin]

Another dozen bikes written off over the weekend together with three of the riders within a ten mile radius.

 

I know that members of RMW are all expert riders and safety conscious but perhaps they have suicidal friends who are not so aware.

My opening line for this thread was:

Any motorbike over about three weeks can be considered old on the roads around here.

[Kickstart]

5) Kawasaki GPZ500s. 8200 mls from new bought on Sunday. Needs a little bit of fettling but its got a years MOT on it and is usable.

Quite fun little bikes. Good on fuel and with a decent tank range, but quite a low seat height.

 

Is it an early shape one or a late shape one (ie, 16" wheels or 17" wheels)?

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Dunsignalling]

I spent a while yesterday afternoon on the prom at Seaton, admiring a lovely 1951 Triumph Trophy, which I understand is the production version of the ISDT winning bikes of the previous year.

 

Next to it was parked a modern Triumph America twin - nice enough in its own way but about double the weight and nothing like as pretty.

 

John

[Diesel Dayz]

Quite fun little bikes. Good on fuel and with a decent tank range, but quite a low seat height.

 

Is it an early shape one or a late shape one (ie, 16" wheels or 17" wheels)?

 

All the best

 

Katy

Hi Katy.

 

It's a '97 with the 17in wheels. Not my usual choice for a bike, but the price was right

 

Alan

Edited August 4, 2016 by Diesel Dayz

[rockershovel]

I briefly owned a Ur(in)al which someone gave me because they couldn't make it run reliably. Horrible thing, I spent a certain amount of time on it, but just gave up and sold it to some other optimist.

 

I lately bought this

 

 

1975 Harley Sportster, about the most original specimen I've seen for some time. Best thing I can say, is that you need to be familiar with bikes like this to get anything out of it. Vibrates like crazy and needs regular sessions tightening things up. Like most Sportsters it needs electronic ignition to run reliably. Cross over gearshift is pretty crude, even by H-D standards so I'll probably do the common conversion to right-side shift over the winter, if I keep it at all. Shocking brakes, in the best H-D tradition...

 

 

1992 Harley Sportster, bought a couple of years ago... I fancied a Sportster, I'd never owned one and wanted to have one before I retired. 5-speed transmission, chain drive, "rigid" Evo (ie engine is bolted directly to the frame, rather than the modern rubber mountings like a Norton Commando). Some previous owner fitted electronic ignition, wise move... CV carb, so generally speaking one if the last of the "true" Sportsters. Feels like riding a flat track bike, quick steering, shakes like a good 'un, various fettling of the suspension and a new front tyre have tamed the front end wobbles. Not fast outright but VERY sharp between about 45 and 80 mph.

 

 

Since someone mentioned Jawas, my 1970s 2-valve Jawa which has put in some good performances on the pre-1975 scene but is currently in retirement while we concentrate on flat track

[PatB]

Older Urals were fairly nasty but the current generation of bikes have been subject to a lot of development, having been sold extensively in the US for the last 25 years. Ours had a Brembo front disc, Keihin carbs, German gearbox and final drive internals, mostly Bosch electrics apart from the Ducati sourced electronic ignition (I'm not  sure that's a recommendation ) and a general build quality that was roughly on a par with, if not better than, the Evo era Harley's I've had the opportunity to examine closely, along with materials of a quality far better than anything the Japanese use, based on the relative rusting rates and alloy white fur growth compared with a Suzuki I bought at about the same time. It cruised fine at 60 mph but had a real sweet spot at 55 which, I assume, was a result of demand from the Seppo market. Not too bad for a heavy bike with an equally heavy sidecar and the drag coeffficient of something very draggy indeed.

 

Mind you, it was also a hell of a lot more expensive than the Iron Curtain era bikes, so you don't get owt for nowt:D.

[HeeleyBridge]

"Ducati sourced electronic ignition"

 

 

[rockershovel]

I take it that "Evo era Harleys" means 1986-98? Strictly speaking the current Sportster STILL has the Evolution engine, although the Big Twins lost it in 1998 with the introduction of the Twin Cam engine.

 

Build quality of older Harleys varies wildly. I've seen some shockers, and some very tidy ones. Older Harleys in fully original trim are so rare that it's hard to generalise from modern survivors, except that the ones that survive tend to be the good ones. I doubt that the paint is original on the blue one above, wrong shade and most AMF era bikes have assorted year-specific tank stripes and patterns; but, you never know, with Harleys. If I was putting money on it, I'd say it was what is often referred to as an "older restoration" rather than an original bike, although it has a lot if parts (like the Keihin carb) which tend to have taken a one-way trip into a forgotten corner long ago, for good reason.

 

The orange one is clearly non-original paint, and a lot of aftermarket fittings, although the shabby state of the frame suggests THAT is original. But, it's no better or worse than Japanese bikes of the period.

 

I've never seen a modern Ural, so I don't have any comment.

[PatB]

I take it that "Evo era Harleys" means 1986-98? Strictly speaking the current Sportster STILL has the Evolution engine, although the Big Twins lost it in 1998 with the introduction of the Twin Cam engine.

 

Build quality of older Harleys varies wildly. I've seen some shockers, and some very tidy ones. Older Harleys in fully original trim are so rare that it's hard to generalise from modern survivors, except that the ones that survive tend to be the good ones. I doubt that the paint is original on the blue one above, wrong shade and most AMF era bikes have assorted year-specific tank stripes and patterns; but, you never know, with Harleys. If I was putting money on it, I'd say it was what is often referred to as an "older restoration" rather than an original bike, although it has a lot if parts (like the Keihin carb) which tend to have taken a one-way trip into a forgotten corner long ago, for good reason.

 

The orange one is clearly non-original paint, and a lot of aftermarket fittings, although the shabby state of the frame suggests THAT is original. But, it's no better or worse than Japanese bikes of the period.

 

I've never seen a modern Ural, so I don't have any comment.

 

Yes, pretty much. I tend to characterise the Sportsters as a bit off to one side although my build quality comments encompass a couple of those as well from the same era. My (admittedly limited) experience of Evo Harleys dates from the early 90s so I was referring to new or newish bikes because, as you rightly point out, after a decade or two of wear, indifferent maintenance and modifications of varying quality will mask anything that the factory might have done. My memory suggests that H-Ds of the era were acceptable, useable bikes, not up to contemporary Japanese .quality control but still capable of daily service without constant fiddling.

 

Likewise, our 2008 Ural was decently screwed together, as 4000km straight out of the showroom and across the continent without any real problems testifies. However the 1940s engine design manifests itself in 2500 km service intervals, Russian chrome is utter rubbish, the mirrors were horrible cheapo things, the engine breathing didn't really work properly thanks to modern emissions regs, the speedo needle developed an incurable waver and several brake pull-off springs failed. All stuff that I wouldn't expect on a new Japanese machine but nothing too disabling or difficult or expensive to sort as a series of minor improvement projects.

 

As noted, though, this bike was/is a lot more recent and a lot more expensive than the Russian twins sold in the UK as various flavours of Cossack or Neval. Oh the memories of non-standard screw threads and machining apparently done with a hoof file and a penknife .

 

Having said all that, next on my list of interesting motorcycles to own is either a Shovelhead or an early Evo H-D, depending on which I can find for an affordableish price and as unmuckedaboutwith as possible. That, however, is an awfully long way away at the moment.

Edited August 4, 2016 by PatB

[rockershovel]

My experience is that Evo Harleys are far superior to earlier, iron-engine ones. The hydraulic tappets and alloy heads, with revised porting and manifold seals (much influenced by the XR flat track bikes), transform the Sportster and the 5-speed transmission incorporates various updates which cure most of the well-known 4-speed problems. That still means that the variants without the transmission trapdoor should be avoided, though. The Mikuni CV carb is a great imprvement over the Keihin and as for the Bendix and Toiletson units on older ironheads, best avoided. The last ironheads - the 1000cc ones - are very similar to Evo engines in many ways, ongoing development I suppose.

 

Same goes for shovelheads. The Evo Big Twin really is that much better; if I were buying an older Big Twin I would start with an 80" Evolution engine Road King, the unsightly frame is better handling and the whole bike, much less likely to have been molested or thrashed.

 

The Ural I had was an early one, horrible thing. I know someone who has a 750cc sidevalve one and he has only himself to blame... he often tells me that he can regrind his valves without even taking the barrel off; why would you want to KNOW that?

[PatB]

My experience is that Evo Harleys are far superior to earlier, iron-engine ones. The hydraulic tappets and alloy heads, with revised porting and manifold seals (much influenced by the XR flat track bikes), transform the Sportster and the 5-speed transmission incorporates various updates which cure most of the well-known 4-speed problems. That still means that the variants without the transmission trapdoor should be avoided, though. The Mikuni CV carb is a great imprvement over the Keihin and as for the Bendix and Toiletson units on older ironheads, best avoided. The last ironheads - the 1000cc ones - are very similar to Evo engines in many ways, ongoing development I suppose.

 

Same goes for shovelheads. The Evo Big Twin really is that much better; if I were buying an older Big Twin I would start with an 80" Evolution engine Road King, the unsightly frame is better handling and the whole bike, much less likely to have been molested or thrashed.

 

The Ural I had was an early one, horrible thing. I know someone who has a 750cc sidevalve one and he has only himself to blame... he often tells me that he can regrind his valves without even taking the barrel off; why would you want to KNOW that?

 

I agree completely about the technical superiority of the Evo over the Shovel, but I'm still vain enough that I don't want to be mistaken for the "typical" Australian Harley rider. I figure that the veneer of burnt on oil and the jacket pockets bulging with spares, tools and bits that fell off might distinguish me from the weekend wobblers Besides, Shovels (at least the deeply undesirable ones) tend to be a we bit cheaper here, at least to buy initially. I'll admit to a desire for an older Road Thing but, even when I might be in a position to make it happen, I'm going to be constrained by what's available at the time. Current objects of interest are a very cheap Sport Glide which would need severe surgery to make it visually acceptable, a surprisingly original early Evo FXR for reasonable money and another cheap, ugly and tastelessly (but probably not terminally) modified Evo FXR whose only redeeming features are the price and not being 4000 km away.

 

It's all academic at the moment anyway, but it doesn't hurt to look .

[rockershovel]

I'd say the unmolested early Evo FXR was so far ahead of the other two, that there was no contest! Don't ever underestimate the cost of sorting out the things that people do to old Harleys.

 

Plus, Shovelheads are undesirable for a reason... Harleys SHOULDN'T drip, dribble and squirt oil everywhere, whatever some people think. Most leaky Shovelheads are that way because the recirculating oil passing through the pressurised primary chaincase is leaking out through the seal between the inner chaincase and the crankcase isn't sealed, usually in combination with leakage around the clutch shaft. It's a stupid design, because the seal area isn't remotely adequate but it CAN be sealed, and the difference is well worth while.

 

Evos don't have this eccentric design and they are much the better for it, quite apart from anything else.

 

 

The FXR is the fore-runner of the present Dyna Glide series and about as near as you will get, to a "sporting Big Twin". It has a sensible riding position, reasonable handling, about as light as a Big Twin gets and generally most of the light touring accessories fit, like throw-over saddlebags and a windshield.

 

I don't actually know what a "typical Australian Harley rider" looks like but I DO know that I once came off with tools in my pocket, and don't intend to do it again... over here, all you need as a distinguishing sign is to be more than 10 miles from town, or over 60mph on any main road ...

Edited August 4, 2016 by rockershovel

[skipepsi]

I never intended to fall off, but sometimes the bikes had other ideas..... 

[trisonic]

I do own a Velocette T-Shirt (only) alas. Love those bikes...

I’ve a hankering for a Square Four - but then I must be a masochist.

 

Best, Pete.

[Rivercider]

The beach lawns at Weston hosts various events including vintage car rallys.

I have no idea of the make of these bikes, does the nearest one even count as a motorcycle?

Weston sea front 5/4/2015

 

cheers

 

[rockershovel]

The first one is a Brockhouse Corgi, originally made for paratroopers in WW2. Push start, automatic transmission, 98cc 2-stroke, no suspension, sold into the mid-50s; also badged as the Indian Papoose..

 

Second one looks like a Francis Barnett, possibly a Fulmar, 1965 registration; one of the numerous lightweights produced using Villiers proprietary 2-stroke engines in the 50s and early 60s.

 

Third one is another similar machine, Villiers 2-stroke power (if such a word can be used in such a context) ...could be a James or a Panther.... Registration not later than 1962

 

Can't make out what is behind it

Edited August 4, 2016 by rockershovel

[Kickstart]

It's a '97 with the 17in wheels. Not my usual choice for a bike, but the price was right

Solves the biggest problem with them. The older 16" wheel ones had self destructing flywheels, which tended to lose the magnets around 20k.

 

We have had 2 of the older ones. They are low enough that my better half can ride them easily. Last one got stolen a few years ago. Still have a few spares for it

 

All the best

 

Katy

[peanuts]

think these may qualify for this thread from this weekends yanks in saddleworth event 

 

 

[Judge Dread]

Photographed on the day I sold it is my 1950 Vincent Series C Comet. I have always regretted that day but looking back, it was a wise decision. The bike didn't really like me as a previous owner had tried to tune it but the Comet was always a mediocre 500 cc single cylinder and this one was better but not in heavy traffic.

Now the 998cc twins, there was a different animal.  I did own a 1952 Series C Rapide which had been sold some 25 years earlier to provide a deposit on the house my wife and I still live in.

Also I had given on long term loan a 1954 Series D Black Prince. This one didn't have any fairings and at the time of my collection of the beast, it was in Aldershot and in pieces. I did it get to go and rode it for a couple of years before it's owner claimed it back. Here's a picture of the first time I rode it after two years of a jig saw puzzle I didn't have a picture for! .  

Edited August 7, 2016 by Judge Dread

[New Haven Neil]

Nothing so esoteric I'm afraid - Mrs H's little Honda street scrambler (1982) at a VMCC track day a few weeks ago. 'no honest Debs, I didn't take it on the track' (oops....eeekk....).  The TZ350 behind belongs to my mate Chris who as we speak is at Bonneville with his 300bhp Hayabus/Thundercat/Turbo nutter b*astard 600 going for the 600cc 'gas' world speed record.  And look closely - in the background is a real MV triple....

 

[New Haven Neil]

The Enfield was easy meat but I never quite got past that 500 Velo....'it's not a race'..........much.