coachmann Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Several valid points from Mike there, and for a comparison perhaps take a look at the Cambrian Railway at Oswestry who have had a disused railway 'ready to run over' for many many years, and yet they are only just managing to get trains running over a short length of the line having spent decades restricted to running over a few hundred yards in the yard. They have limited facilities and stock and, presumably, a small number of active volunteers which may have restricted them over the years. Yet they are only a couple miles off one of the main trunk roads in the UK so in an ideal position to attract enthusiasts and volunteers, and catch tourists heading into/out of Wales, but Oswestry doesn't seem to have much of a draw as the A5 now bypasses it nicely. So, as much as I'd like to see something happen with this project I do feel it's going to take a heck of a lot more than clearing the track and buying a well used 08 to get this project moving. Something like a wealthy benefactor or maybe a helpful loco owner willing to give an undertaking to provide their loco once the line is ready would be a good start. While no one arrives by rail at Oswestry, any activity at Blaenau Ffestiniog would be visible to passengers alighting from narrow gauge trains and to users of the road that parallels the Manod to Llan Festiniog section. While space for a station in Blaenau is slim, there are plenty of places for loco and stock storage at Manod, Llan Festiniog and Maentwrog Road goods. Edited January 11, 2017 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWTH Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 How would it be visible to anyone arriving by either FR or Conwy Valley? The nearest place a station could be built is well out of sight of either platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) How would it be visible to anyone arriving by either FR or Conwy Valley? The nearest place a station could be built is well out of sight of either platform. Groan........Signposts, large billboards with arrows etc etc. After all, I can't see Llangollen, Bala, Welshpool, Llanberis, Caernarfon or Porthmadog from my living room window! Edited January 12, 2017 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Something might have gone slightly wrong in translation here...from the latest update on their facebook page. The Trawsfynydd & Blaenau Ffestiniog Community Railway Company 3 mins · Bydd y cyfarfod hwn yn cael ei gynnal ar dydd Sadwrn 28 Ionawr, 2017 yn y Caffi Llyn Trawsfynydd. Mi fydd yr cyfarfod cychwyn am 10:00. Mae croeso i bob aelod o'r gymdeithas a bydd tanysgrifiadau aelodaeth ar gael ar y diwrnod. Mi fydd yr agenda yn cael ei bostio yn fuan. Bydd Etholiadau yn cael ei gynnal ar gyfer swyddi ar y pwyllgor. Bydd y swyddi yn cael eu hysbysebu cyn gyntad a posib.... See More This meeting will be held on Saturday 28th January, 2017 in the cafe trawsfynydd lake. The meeting will start at 10:00. All are welcome to all members of the society and tanysgrifiadau membership will be available on the day. The homosexual will be posted soon. Elections will be held for jobs on the committee. The jobs being advertised gyntad before it. Application by email to secretary@bftr.co.uk with your membership and contact details and disgrifiad short of why would like to join the committee and what you can offer to the society. These have to be presented by midnight on Saturday 14th of January. · Rate this translation LikeShow more reactionsCommentShare Edited January 12, 2017 by PhilH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 To quote Monty Python " My hovercraft is full of eels". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 While no one arrives by rail at Oswestry, any activity at Blaenau Ffestiniog would be visible to passengers alighting from narrow gauge trains and to users of the road that parallels the Manod to Llan Festiniog section. While space for a station in Blaenau is slim, there are plenty of places for loco and stock storage at Manod, Llan Festiniog and Maentwrog Road goods. Storage isn't the issue, having good facilities to properly service and maintain locos and stock is essential! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 While no one arrives by rail at Oswestry, any activity at Blaenau Ffestiniog would be visible to passengers alighting from narrow gauge trains and to users of the road that parallels the Manod to Llan Festiniog section. While space for a station in Blaenau is slim, there are plenty of places for loco and stock storage at Manod, Llan Festiniog and Maentwrog Road goods. Not to single you out specifically Larry, but there have been several mentions of people alighting from the FR and wanting something to do prior to returning to Port. While I can see hardy enthusiasts doing this, the average family already has 2.4 kids with them for whom the length of time spent doing the FR round trip is pushing the boundaries bordering on bordom for the children - the last thing they want is to break the journey for another while spent on a train... Good luck to them all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2017 Not to single you out specifically Larry, but there have been several mentions of people alighting from the FR and wanting something to do prior to returning to Port. While I can see hardy enthusiasts doing this, the average family already has 2.4 kids with them for whom the length of time spent doing the FR round trip is pushing the boundaries bordering on bordom for the children - the last thing they want is to break the journey for another while spent on a train... Depends on the train and the age of the children. I went on a train in Norway that had a childrens' carriage complete with play area including a climbing frame, slide etc. Just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Not to single you out specifically Larry, but there have been several mentions of people alighting from the FR and wanting something to do prior to returning to Port. While I can see hardy enthusiasts doing this, the average family already has 2.4 kids with them for whom the length of time spent doing the FR round trip is pushing the boundaries bordering on bordom for the children - the last thing they want is to break the journey for another while spent on a train... Good luck to them all the same. It would be interesting to know what the breakdown of FfR passenger numbers is between families and enthusiasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2017 It would be interesting to know what the breakdown of FfR passenger numbers is between families and enthusiasts. Not necessarily mutually exclusive! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2017 Not necessarily mutually exclusive! Of course not but I think we know what he meant... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWTH Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 While no one arrives by rail at Oswestry, any activity at Blaenau Ffestiniog would be visible to passengers alighting from narrow gauge trains and to users of the road that parallels the Manod to Llan Festiniog section. While space for a station in Blaenau is slim, there are plenty of places for loco and stock storage at Manod, Llan Festiniog and Maentwrog Road goods. You said activity would be visible at Blaenau Ffestiniog. Not signposts, activity. That's why I answered by asking what activity would be seen. The Cambrian at Oswestry have signposts from the A5. Anyone arriving at Blaenau from the Conwy Valley looking to go on another railway will go on the FR, because it's right there, in plain sight, a very short distance away. Signposts leading off to another railway somewhere that can't be seen won't be enough. As for passing traffic, maybe. Depends on what they encounter when they turn through the gates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I suspect that a large number of FR passengers are 'enthusiastic families'. They're not die hard railway enthusiasts like us on here but they like the idea of a steam train ride. Steam haulage is the priority, the exact type of loco is less important. But other factors are very important like clean coaches, food and drink on board, decent facilities and so on. Some will ride for the scenery alone but I suspect the majority want a pretty steam train ride. The journey time on the FR is ideal - about an hour each way with a chance to break the journey at Tan Y Bwylch with a cafe and playground. The coaches on the FR are very comfortable with large windows and good views, and surprisingly roomy for narrow gauge. So if the BF&T railway want to entice more, new customers they will have to do something that the FR can't offer. I can't see how a DMU or a austerity tank would pull in families over a ride behind a double-fairlie or Prince or similar. To be unique they need a USP, such as mainline steam, large locos or express trains. As I've said I can't imagine there are many families who decide that they won't travel on a narrow gauge railway, but will go for a trip on the BF&T just because its standard gauge. Similarly is the Conway Valley link that useful? How many extra passengers will come down the mainline to ride on the BF&T railway, who don't currently do the same with the FR? I've heard it said that for most heritage railways non-enthusiast visitors make up 90% of the passengers. At the moment I think the FR fits the bill perfectly for most of them. If you look on Tripadvisor the reviews are overwhelmingly positive (apart from one tasteless comment that compared the heritage coaches being locked to something out of Schindler's List) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWTH Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 It would be interesting to know what the breakdown of FfR passenger numbers is between families and enthusiasts. The vast majority are families. I would hazard a guess at around 10% of the passengers being railway enthusiasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Though presumably that would vary with event/time of year. I would expect the ratio of enthusiasts to families to be higher at Gala/vintage weekends etc than on ordinary running days. Gala attendees are likely to want to ride behind as wide a variety of locos as possible, so would not particularly want to travel back to Port behind the same loco that brought them up. If the timetables are coordinated, they might prefer to take a ride on the BF&T and catch a later train back to Port with a different loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
srihaggis Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I think you'll find the ratio of families / enthusiasts is pretty much the same anywhere in the country. I used to do some pres on-train work, and in my oppinion i'd say 1 in every 100 would be an enthusiast, the rest being families and members. This of course changes for gala specific events when everyone crawls out the wood work! Going back to Blaenau, ok this would be an age away, but if an arrangement 'similar' to Whitby NYMR could be reached where they run into the existing station to avoid having to buy land and build a new station 'out of sight' from the current Blaenau. I say similar because Whitby is a Terminus and not what Blaenau would essentially become... a though station, but i'm sure with todays tech something could be sorted. The run-round facility is in place anyway. Edited January 12, 2017 by srihaggis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2017 Going back to Blaenau, ok this would be an age away, but if an arrangement 'similar' to Whitby NYMR could be reached where they run into the existing station. I say similar because Whitby is a Terminus and not what Blaenau would essentially become... a though station, but i'm sure with todays tech something could be sorted. The run-round facility is in place anyway. Why stop there? How about through running to Llandudno Junction? (For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a serious suggestion - particularly if the motive power is an 08). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I wonder how any are families of enthusiasts. Ie Dad wants to re-live his not so distant past and the kids need a bit of entertainment/education and so on. I spent a very enjoyable 3 hours at Porthmadoc Harbour last August and got the impression that a lot of the people there met the above description. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2017 I wonder how any are families of enthusiasts. Ie Dad wants to re-live his not so distant past and the kids need a bit of entertainment/education and so on. I spent a very enjoyable 3 hours at Porthmadoc Harbour last August and got the impression that a lot of the people there met the above description. I don't think there's anywhere else like it in the UK - two "full length" narrow gauge steam railways coming together at one station, never mind the double Fairlies and Garretts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Why stop there? How about through running to Llandudno Junction? (For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a serious suggestion - particularly if the motive power is an 08). I said earlier, and still believe that they'd be better off promoting and running trains that direction rather than trying to go down the derelict part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Something might have gone slightly wrong in translation here...from the latest update on their facebook page. The Trawsfynydd & Blaenau Ffestiniog Community Railway Company 3 mins · Bydd y cyfarfod hwn yn cael ei gynnal ar dydd Sadwrn 28 Ionawr, 2017 yn y Caffi Llyn Trawsfynydd. Mi fydd yr cyfarfod cychwyn am 10:00. Mae croeso i bob aelod o'r gymdeithas a bydd tanysgrifiadau aelodaeth ar gael ar y diwrnod. Mi fydd yr agenda yn cael ei bostio yn fuan. Bydd Etholiadau yn cael ei gynnal ar gyfer swyddi ar y pwyllgor. Bydd y swyddi yn cael eu hysbysebu cyn gyntad a posib.... See More This meeting will be held on Saturday 28th January, 2017 in the cafe trawsfynydd lake. The meeting will start at 10:00. All are welcome to all members of the society and tanysgrifiadau membership will be available on the day. The homosexual will be posted soon. Elections will be held for jobs on the committee. The jobs being advertised gyntad before it. Application by email to secretary@bftr.co.uk with your membership and contact details and disgrifiad short of why would like to join the committee and what you can offer to the society. These have to be presented by midnight on Saturday 14th of January. · Rate this translation LikeShow more reactionsCommentShare Wow, the Welsh is almost as ungrammatical as the English! I'd love to know which language it was written in first! And no, I'm not offering myself as Official Translator to the group, much as I like the idea of restoring the line! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I don't wish to be a nay-sayer but I think it's unlikely a family who've just spent the best part of £100 on a return trip on the Ffestiniog is going to dip into their pockets to take a trip on another train. It's always going to be difficult to get something going alongside one of the best marketed and popular railway attractions in the UK, there definitely needs to be a USP for this to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34064 FIGHTER COMMAND Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I have been watching progress on this project via the internet and social media to gauge how public opinion has progressed over the short time that this project has developed. I was finding that on searches defined via google that this forum was attracting attention and so have been watching how over time comments have developed. I was interested about this idea from its first public airing and so took a keen interest, though in a back seat sort of way, as to how this line could one day come to fruition. When the funding for the 08 was announced I decided to contribute in some small way, this subject matter continued into conversation down the local Badgers Knot ale house with my friends as to its validity. The society as it stands as far as I can see has no background in any form of management capability and only now seems to want to be officially organized and recognised, why was this not performed before any public announcement so as to give a unified front on unveiling. None of the officers who are standing for this organization can be found via any search to have proven their worth in any other project yet are now in control of received monies from the membership payments. Upon the failure of the 08 fund my friends surmised that this was done as a purposeful manner so as to announce that confusion and inability by others would lead to this shortfall for the sole purpose of generating income for matters that show no financial support or open income for these society projects, where is this money coming from that is said to be so freely available and in such stable hands, and if this is so, why was it not used to buy the 08 in the first place before advocating public donations, or even used to fill the shortfall for its purchase. We are also asked to help via physical activities but how are a new organization expecting people to travel to an underfunded town in the middle of North Wales when public support by Councils is being withdrawn by the week and month. I'm afraid my membership money will be better spent on supporting a preservation scheme much nearer to my home area than for an un-fathomable and disparate group of locals hoping to cash in on what the Ffestiniog has fought hard to bring to the town. My questions to members on social media have never been answered but I'm sure this comment on here will bring derisions and demands that I should now spend my time finding out about arisen matters. The local area will not stand more schemes that expect public funding to succeed as it is a town fighting hard against unemployment and poor housing, why do they then expect local people to now give money to something that will bring no security to its local population and so bring more hardship on its already breadline families. Do they want another railway on their doorstep and have any of these people ever been publicly asked and if passengers are drawn away from the Ffestiniog, will animosity now develop between the two organizations. No, I am better off where I am and can now see through the hazy mist of enthusiasm that my money and effort can be spent better elsewhere. The only realistic proposal is failure, sooner rather than later, so the local population is not defrauded into believing it is a worthwhile money spinner for its proposers and any funding is only wasted by these self same people and it is their pockets that are emptied. Do NOT ask for any communication personally on this matter as disillusionment has prevailed. I can only hope that no other inspired follower is drawn into this abysmal scheme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2017 I have been watching progress on this project via the internet and social media to gauge how public opinion has progressed over the short time that this project has developed. I was finding that on searches defined via google that this forum was attracting attention and so have been watching how over time comments have developed. I was interested about this idea from its first public airing and so took a keen interest, though in a back seat sort of way, as to how this line could one day come to fruition. When the funding for the 08 was announced I decided to contribute in some small way, this subject matter continued into conversation down the local Badgers Knot ale house with my friends as to its validity. The society as it stands as far as I can see has no background in any form of management capability and only now seems to want to be officially organized and recognised, why was this not performed before any public announcement so as to give a unified front on unveiling. None of the officers who are standing for this organization can be found via any search to have proven their worth in any other project yet are now in control of received monies from the membership payments. Upon the failure of the 08 fund my friends surmised that this was done as a purposeful manner so as to announce that confusion and inability by others would lead to this shortfall for the sole purpose of generating income for matters that show no financial support or open income for these society projects, where is this money coming from that is said to be so freely available and in such stable hands, and if this is so, why was it not used to buy the 08 in the first place before advocating public donations, or even used to fill the shortfall for its purchase. We are also asked to help via physical activities but how are a new organization expecting people to travel to an underfunded town in the middle of North Wales when public support by Councils is being withdrawn by the week and month. I'm afraid my membership money will be better spent on supporting a preservation scheme much nearer to my home area than for an un-fathomable and disparate group of locals hoping to cash in on what the Ffestiniog has fought hard to bring to the town. My questions to members on social media have never been answered but I'm sure this comment on here will bring derisions and demands that I should now spend my time finding out about arisen matters. The local area will not stand more schemes that expect public funding to succeed as it is a town fighting hard against unemployment and poor housing, why do they then expect local people to now give money to something that will bring no security to its local population and so bring more hardship on its already breadline families. Do they want another railway on their doorstep and have any of these people ever been publicly asked and if passengers are drawn away from the Ffestiniog, will animosity now develop between the two organizations. No, I am better off where I am and can now see through the hazy mist of enthusiasm that my money and effort can be spent better elsewhere. The only realistic proposal is failure, sooner rather than later, so the local population is not defrauded into believing it is a worthwhile money spinner for its proposers and any funding is only wasted by these self same people and it is their pockets that are emptied. Do NOT ask for any communication personally on this matter as disillusionment has prevailed. I can only hope that no other inspired follower is drawn into this abysmal scheme. So you're not keen on it then? As, it would seem, some sort of expert on the development of new and nascent railway preservation/reopening projects it would be interesting to hear you views on how such projects should get underway as very many of them seem to have started in a very similar way to this one. The other thing which I find interesting is your view that you seemingly consider council funding to be an essential. Council support is undoubtedly a very important element for any such scheme but that is a very different things from a council actually sticking its hands into its empty pockets to dole out cash. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2017 I have been watching progress on this project via the internet and social media to gauge how public opinion has progressed over the short time that this project has developed. I was finding that on searches defined via google that this forum was attracting attention and so have been watching how over time comments have developed. I was interested about this idea from its first public airing and so took a keen interest, though in a back seat sort of way, as to how this line could one day come to fruition. When the funding for the 08 was announced I decided to contribute in some small way, this subject matter continued into conversation down the local Badgers Knot ale house with my friends as to its validity. The society as it stands as far as I can see has no background in any form of management capability and only now seems to want to be officially organized and recognised, why was this not performed before any public announcement so as to give a unified front on unveiling. None of the officers who are standing for this organization can be found via any search to have proven their worth in any other project yet are now in control of received monies from the membership payments. Upon the failure of the 08 fund my friends surmised that this was done as a purposeful manner so as to announce that confusion and inability by others would lead to this shortfall for the sole purpose of generating income for matters that show no financial support or open income for these society projects, where is this money coming from that is said to be so freely available and in such stable hands, and if this is so, why was it not used to buy the 08 in the first place before advocating public donations, or even used to fill the shortfall for its purchase. We are also asked to help via physical activities but how are a new organization expecting people to travel to an underfunded town in the middle of North Wales when public support by Councils is being withdrawn by the week and month. I'm afraid my membership money will be better spent on supporting a preservation scheme much nearer to my home area than for an un-fathomable and disparate group of locals hoping to cash in on what the Ffestiniog has fought hard to bring to the town. My questions to members on social media have never been answered but I'm sure this comment on here will bring derisions and demands that I should now spend my time finding out about arisen matters. The local area will not stand more schemes that expect public funding to succeed as it is a town fighting hard against unemployment and poor housing, why do they then expect local people to now give money to something that will bring no security to its local population and so bring more hardship on its already breadline families. Do they want another railway on their doorstep and have any of these people ever been publicly asked and if passengers are drawn away from the Ffestiniog, will animosity now develop between the two organizations. No, I am better off where I am and can now see through the hazy mist of enthusiasm that my money and effort can be spent better elsewhere. The only realistic proposal is failure, sooner rather than later, so the local population is not defrauded into believing it is a worthwhile money spinner for its proposers and any funding is only wasted by these self same people and it is their pockets that are emptied. Do NOT ask for any communication personally on this matter as disillusionment has prevailed. I can only hope that no other inspired follower is drawn into this abysmal scheme. A post as impressively gray as the striped livery famously - if briefly - worn by the locomotive of his name. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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