MarkC Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I hear that the last phone call from the Bridge to the Engine Room went something like "For goodness' sake, Chief. Stop gargling and tell me how bad the leak is..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I think she must have been the ship we saw from Wembury a few weeks ago. I thought it was some form of landing ship, but since I retired I don't have such easy access to magazines etc as before. It's an "amphibious transport dock" also called an LPD "Landing Platform Dock". Deck operations are really interesting loading the hovercraft with heavy equipment. This illustration gives an example of the complexity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2018 I hear that the last phone call from the Bridge to the Engine Room went something like "For goodness' sake, Chief. Stop gargling and tell me how bad the leak is..." "can you call the office to send us another box of thistlebond and some cement...." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Makes me think of the tale about the sinking of RFA ENNERDALE. She sank off the Seychelles after they ripped the bottom out of her, I seem to remember she sank very quickly (12 minutes was I think quoted). Anyway, the C/E apparently told the E/Cdt to grab the E/R log book as they were abandoning ship and legging it out of the engine room. Some time later, safely in lifeboats and awaiting rescue the Chief asks the cadet "where's the log book?", to which the ever innocent lad replies "it's in your cabin Chief"... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) As I always say, arm a true marine engineer with nought more than a box of thistlebond, a few sacks of cement, silicone sealant, a shifter (adjustable spanner to heathens), copious quantities of red stag, some stud bar, an angle grinder and a box of welding rods and caring not for scars or injury anything is possible. Edited November 14, 2018 by jjb1970 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 As I always say, arm a true marine engineer with nought more than a box of thistlebond, a few sacks of cement, silicone sealant, a shifter (adjustable spanner to heathens), copious quantities of red stag, some stud bar, an angle grinder and a box of welding rods and caring not for scars or injury anything is possible. Not forgetting some decent canvas to use as an underlay before you pour the cement on top for a nice even surface prior to painting so the deck looks solid, the more artistic would also use rusty water (nails in a jar of SW for a few days) for suitable rust staining for added realism. So I was told anyway.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Of course, there's the "Russian Repair", done as someone is about to leave the ship. Drain holed pipe down. Wrap chart paper round the pipe. Apply several thick coats of paint. Leg it... Next poor ba****d who opens the valves to put that pipe into use gets a bit of a shock. Don't ask me how I know that this is not a tall tale... ...oh, all right. Happened to me. Scary stuff. An 8" diameter Main Sea Water line in the bottom of the Engine Room. We did identify the person responsible, although we couldn't prove it - but he wasn't invited back. Sometimes voyage contracts work in our favour... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Of course, there's the "Russian Repair", done as someone is about to leave the ship. Drain holed pipe down. Wrap chart paper round the pipe. Apply several thick coats of paint. Leg it... Next poor ba****d who opens the valves to put that pipe into use gets a bit of a shock. Don't ask me how I know that this is not a tall tale... ...oh, all right. Happened to me. Scary stuff. An 8" diameter Main Sea Water line in the bottom of the Engine Room. We did identify the person responsible, although we couldn't prove it - but he wasn't invited back. Sometimes voyage contracts work in our favour... ... also known as NRB (Not Required Back) in the oil industry. Works fine, until you arrive in the position whereby contract staff are habitually blamed for anything that’s too embarrassing to enquire into, in case you encroach on staff positions. Also problematical in those situations where “local national” personnel are involved, implicated or suspected, because good luck to the expat contractor who becomes the unwanted beneficiary of such a situation.. the trick is to spot it and deal with it before it becomes common knowledge. Edited November 15, 2018 by rockershovel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 ... also known as NRB (Not Required Back) in the oil industry. Works fine, until you arrive in the position whereby contract staff are habitually blamed for anything that’s too embarrassing to enquire into, in case you encroach on staff positions. Also problematical in those situations where “local national” personnel are involved, implicated or suspected, because good luck to the expat contractor who becomes the unwanted beneficiary of such a situation.. the trick is to spot it and deal with it before it becomes common knowledge. Working for some of the Arabic Countries' oil majors was like that. Friend of mine was sacked after an electric motor started glowing - not good on a ship loaded with 55,000 cubic metres of liquid propane. The Company chose to believe the 4th Engineer, one of their own, over my friend... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) Some comments about peacetime warship accidents from Savetheroyalnavy. I have no doubts at all that the rapidly expanding Chinese navy (PLAN) has accidents that are covered up; not only from outsiders but from their own people too. https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/why-do-peacetime-naval-accidents-keep-happening/ Edited November 17, 2018 by Ohmisterporter 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) An interesting article, although some of the conclusions read a little like an apologia I think. The question of training is an interesting one, whenever there is an accident one of the standard kneejerk responses is to call for more training, followed by a call for more procedures. Almost every incident I've ever been involved with, reviewed or investigated involved people who were well trained and would have been considered competent to undertake their duties by any measure. Invariably they have completed extensive training, in the case of commercial shipping you do not end up as officer of the watch without the requisite certificate of competency issued by a government maritime administration which entails at least some training and a requirement to pass various examinations (including orals with an examiner). Similarly, in every case I have been involved with there was a procedure, in most cases the existing procedures would have been quite sufficient if properly implemented, however there are procedures which are so burdensome and complex it doesn't require you to be a hyper-brainiac to figure out people will take short cuts or ignore them (I've seen operational procedures which were all but impossible to properly apply). So it is not that we need more procedures, rather that a procedure is only useful if usable and used. So the standard kneejerk to call for more training and procedures is woefully inadequate I think. Which takes us to cultural issues and trying to understand human behaviours. In this case, it would appear that if the Norwegian Navy inculcated a culture whereby their officers listened to the radio and payed attention to what they hear, as well as taking the effort to look out of the window, that they might still have a fifth frigate. Edited November 17, 2018 by jjb1970 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TomE Posted November 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2018 New TV series, Warship: Life at Sea, starts Monday 26th Nov on Channel 5. Following Type 45 HMS Duncan. Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 An article in South China Morning Post about technology used by NATO being sold to China. I can't help thinking that if an individual had sold this system to a potential enemy he would have been jailed. A company sells it and is probably in line for an award for exports. This is only one of a series of similar deals done with Chinese companies over recent months. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2173593/china-matches-nato-information-arms-race-deal-ferrari-war-room Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 An article in South China Morning Post about technology used by NATO being sold to China. I can't help thinking that if an individual had sold this system to a potential enemy he would have been jailed. A company sells it and is probably in line for an award for exports. This is only one of a series of similar deals done with Chinese companies over recent months. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2173593/china-matches-nato-information-arms-race-deal-ferrari-war-room An article in South China Morning Post about technology used by NATO being sold to China. I can't help thinking that if an individual had sold this system to a potential enemy he would have been jailed. A company sells it and is probably in line for an award for exports. This is only one of a series of similar deals done with Chinese companies over recent months. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2173593/china-matches-nato-information-arms-race-deal-ferrari-war-room This rather smacks of the deal done by the British government to sell Rolls Royce Nene engines to the Russians in 1946/7. A dubious decision at the time which annoyed the Americans, and came to bite us in the arse in the skies over Korea. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Perhaps it is better that they use software to which we are completely privy, rather than their own, to which we would not be. (Assuming they were not able to steal it anyway....) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted November 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2018 Perhaps it is better that they use software to which we are completely privy, rather than their own, to which we would not be. (Assuming they were not able to steal it anyway....) But that would mean they are privy to our software.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) The article reads like a rehash of the software vendor's press release about how great their software is. Judging from their website the software has multiple uses both civilian and military, which is presumably why the Chinese have been allowed to buy it as it's not classed as military technology. https://www.hexagongeospatial.com/products/luciad-portfolio/luciadlightspeed Edited November 20, 2018 by pete_mcfarlane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2018 New TV series, Warship: Life at Sea, starts Monday 26th Nov on Channel 5. Following Type 45 HMS Duncan. Tom. Hmm, the title 'Warship: Life at Sea' and the mention of a Type 45 don't necessarily sit easily in the same sentence although I understand that some parts of them work very well as long as other parts aren't working. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2018 I hear the Norwegian Navy are interested in buying one of our Type 45's, they've done a risk assessment and concluded that if a ship doesn't leave its berth it is less likely to sink. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2018 Initially the Norwegian's wanted a German F125 Frigate to replace their lost frigate but then realised that the F125 is at risk of sinking even if it never leaves the berth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TomE Posted November 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hmm, the title 'Warship: Life at Sea' and the mention of a Type 45 don't necessarily sit easily in the same sentence although I understand that some parts of them work very well as long as other parts aren't working. I believe that following some remedial work Type 45 reliability is much improved and several of them have been active recently. The next phase of work involving the replacement of the 2 diesel generators and addition of a third, plus the work being done on the Gas Turbines will hopefully resolve the problems they’ve had with the type once and for all! Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Mike Storey, on 20 Nov 2018 - 05:02, said: Perhaps it is better that they use software to which we are completely privy, rather than their own, to which we would not be. (Assuming they were not able to steal it anyway....) But that would mean they are privy to our software.......... Assuming that both are the same. I remember the US having 'domestic' and 'export' versions of cryptography software in the 1990s. Didn't last too long as the 'domestic' version, which had stronger (128-bit c.f. 40-bit) keys, quickly found its way overseas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 ... from what I hear, HMG is using Chinese software and Indian IT personnel (rotated in on ICT) anyway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 ... from what I hear, HMG is using Chinese software and Indian IT personnel (rotated in on ICT) anyway... What could possibly go wrong??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 This rather smacks of the deal done by the British government to sell Rolls Royce Nene engines to the Russians in 1946/7. A dubious decision at the time which annoyed the Americans, and came to bite us in the arse in the skies over Korea. Mike They just got it quicker without the need to resort to stealing the plans or shooting one down to reverse engineer! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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