How many 16 ton mineral wagons are left?

[The Penguin 0f Doom]

It was out last weekend at the gala, my vid below starts with the train departing Loughborough, I would have liked to have videoed it lineside somewhere but missed it a few times with different locks up front, glad I caught I with the 9F thoughhttps://youtu.be/BnCG1CFViC8

Cracking video..... I counted 18 x 16t minerals.

 

Also, if you pause the footage of D5185 at the right spot, you can see it has a curved front. Must pop over to the Heljan 25 thread and make a note of that there.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Rivercider]

Many of the older revenue earning wagon types that have survived long enough to find a new home on preserved railways

have done so precisely because BR was able to find a new use for them after their original revenue earning purpose had gone.

 

The Civil Engineer could always find a use for a few high-fits, and tubes for example to move concrete components around.

Likewise the Signal Engineer used tube and pipe wagons, and a number of longer bogie vehicles for moving cables, signals and gantries etc.

These vehicles are performing a similar function on preserved railways today.

Project Mercury in the 1980s used trains made up of pipe wagons which then outlasted the rest of the fleet, which means some are with us today.

 

The humble 16t mineral did see use in engineers spoil traffic, but was easily overloaded, difficult to unload and quickly damaged

so was soon replaced by the more substantial tippler wagons

 

cheers 

[Mark Saunders]

The problem with many "preserved/preservation" sites is that they do not take care of the wagons they have and tend to overload them and leave wagons full of spoil to rot!

 

There is quite often an ignorance of what they have at one time there were a number of prewar Liverpool Corporation hoppers but these have all gone except one. As such prewar PO hoppers are almost non existent!

 

Mark Saunders

[Signaller69]

Snapped this pair at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry on my old low res phone a couple of years ago, they at least seem well looked after. Couldn't tell you their numbers unfortunately. Clearly rebuilds, nearer one is vac braked by look of it so as such is in the wrong livery! Was a nice surprise to see them all the same, particularly in an industrial setting.

 

Martyn.

[avonside1563]

There must be many a preserved line who owe their pet loco(s) very existence to the 16 tonner.

 

It is so often the case with the common and mundane that you don't notice their passing until they have almost gone.

 

Preserved line goods trains are wonderful to see, but they are almost a 'loss leader' as they cannot generate per wagon the same income as passenger carrier

Exactly why the Foxfield Railway has 12 x 16 ton mineral wagons that form a centrepiece to our steam galas when we operate them on the 2/3rds of a mile of 1 in 25 Foxfield Bank. We also have a rake of 6 x 21 ton hoppers that see similar use.

 

If you want to see them in action come to the annual Autumn Steam Gala on the 24th and 25th September or next year at our annual summer steam gala in July.

[Metro457]

Sadly, they're not a type of vehicle that any preservation society could find a practical use for; vans can serve as storage, low-sided opens for ballast and so on, but the 16 tonner is really only of use in demonstration trains. They're not even much use for storing coal in, as the bottoms of the sides rust through very quickly; I've known them be pulled apart when being unloaded with electro-magnets in steel-works scrap bays.

There are now fewer 16 tonners in existence than I would count in my demurrage report of wagons standing at British Steel Landore on a typical day in the early 1970s.

I agree on your comments on the bottom of the sides deteriorating quickly from personal experience.

 

In the mid 1980's whilst involved in preservation I took it upon myself to volunteer to cosmetically restore a MCO that had been donated to us by British Rail a few years earlier and had been left in the Museum sidings.

 

Before even starting on tidying the wagon up, several weekends were spent just emptying the remains of its last revenue load (coal) which had decayed to what could best be described as slack. On removing this it became apparent that the coal/coal dust had caused a great deal of corrosion to the lower sides and floor. After a few weeks chipping/scraping/painting the situation had been improved but was quite an effort for just one coal wagon. I could then start on the running gear and restoring the outside to something presentable for a museum.

 

The original intention was apart making the place look a bit less like a scrapyard, was indeed a run it in a demonstration freight train, but in addition it found an additional perhaps more useful role as a mobile storage unit for large bulky items which would otherwise take up storage space.

 

Not very useful on a heritage line but in a museum or workshop environment it still had a use.

 

I enjoyed the project but wouldn't have liked a siding full of them!           

[Londontram]

We could always learn a lesson from the model railway fraternity there could be a false floor put in a few inches below the top this could be welded in place and sealed and a false load put on the top and the area underneath accessed through the side doors could be used for storage. Best of both worlds the false floor would stop the bottom rotting out, it would look good in a demonstration train and the area below could be used for storing all the stuff like point rodding etc thus tidying up some of the stuff some places have laying  round there yards.............. Well it was just an idea

[sandwich station]

I wonder how many model 16-tonners exist. I have 28.

[Reorte]

From the comments above I'm left wondering whether wooden bodied mineral wagons would last longer in preservation. Obviously wood rots but as quick as those things corrode (and is presumably easier to replace)? They're not going to get the battering in preservation that they must've done in operation, which is presumably why they went to steel in the first place.

[bingley hall]

Railway modelling keeps alive what the preservation movement can't, or won't.

 

I shan't go into the nitty-gritty of the astute observations the posters above have made, suffice to say bums on seats make moolah at yer local "step back in time to the golden age of rail" cobblers venue, not the recreation of the actual cargo vehicles that extended the life of the typical branchline beyond pax service so the line could actually be saved by the people purporting to....you get the picture.

 

C6T.

 

No not really.

 

Do tell.

[avonside1563]

From the comments above I'm left wondering whether wooden bodied mineral wagons would last longer in preservation. Obviously wood rots but as quick as those things corrode (and is presumably easier to replace)? They're not going to get the battering in preservation that they must've done in operation, which is presumably why they went to steel in the first place.

If it's a wooden framed wagon then it can be extremely expensive and time consuming to repair the frame, a steel framed wooden body wagon can be less so but a new body with wood can be as expensive as steel, and I find that quick repairs on a wooden wagon are difficult as wooden welding rods just don't work!

It's usually the frames that dictate whether a wagon gets restored or not.

[pacer lover]

hi all

sadly the DFR does not have any 16ton mineral wagons    however we do have a lot of wagons including 11 dogfish ballast wagons and a few wooden body open wagons

rob

[avonside1563]

Link to a youtube video where some of Foxfield's extensive collection of wagons can be seen in action.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

The Bluebell doesn't have any 16T Minerals, but it does have one 13T one which was built as a PO wagon, and is also extremely rare.

Take a look

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/wagon/pba59685.html

[Dava]

There should be 39 on the GCR and only 18 in running order.

There is a rake of repainted non-runners in Quorn yard, they look respectable. Apart from body corrosion, replacement or repair of the Oleo buffers is costly and problematic, which is why some are u/s. The running rake live in Swithland Sidings when not in traffic. Apart from the sight, the sound of a rake of empties [they are always empty!] getting under way is quite unique.

GCR Winter Gala 25-27 Jan will feature them with appropriate motive power.

[Mark Saunders]

The Bluebell doesn't have any 16T Minerals, but it does have one 13T one which was built as a PO wagon, and is also extremely rare.

Take a look

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/wagon/pba59685.html

The Bluebell one is now unique as the other two at Cottesmore were scrapped!

 

Mark Saunders

[Fat Controller]

There is a rake of repainted non-runners in Quorn yard, they look respectable. Apart from body corrosion, replacement or repair of the Oleo buffers is costly and problematic, which is why some are u/s. The running rake live in Swithland Sidings when not in traffic. Apart from the sight, the sound of a rake of empties [they are always empty!] getting under way is quite unique.

GCR Winter Gala 25-27 Jan will feature them with appropriate motive power.

Some of the GCR ones are currently on loan to the Pontypool and Blaenafon.

[dibber25]

On 10/09/2016 at 09:59, t8hants said:

Thanks for the replies, the GCR Windcutter is new to me so thats very interesting.

I am also surprised there may be as many as 100 still around.

Living on the IoW which was a 16 tonner free zone they were very much a symbol of holidays, which I spent watching them go thundering up and down the Vale of Neath, or sneaking down into the screens at Resolven to watch them being made up into trains.

 

I was involved with Steam Railway magazine when we helped the GCR launch its Windcutter project in the early 1990s. By that time there were few 16-ton mineral wagons left on BR and most were so rusted out that they were not worth bothering with. The combination of coal dust and rain evidently accelerated the rusting process. Many of those which were acquired came from British Leyland at Longbridge, where they had been used for moving metal swarf from the factory. The machine oil on the metal swarf had the opposite effect and actually helped preserve the wagons. However, I know that in the intervening years the GCR has had a constant programme of rebuilding these wagons, too. (CJL)

Edited April 28, 2020 by dibber25
erroneous spell checker correction

[Dunsignalling]

Seems odd to think that there are more 16 ton wagons around nowdays than HAA hoppers, considering how common a sight the latter were until not that long ago at all.

Perhaps not when you consider there were something like a quarter of a million of the 16-tonners built to the most common diagram.

 

John

[doilum]

I find it sad that only 100 have survived out of the hundreds of thousands which were built; but I suppose being open and of steel construction they were prime candidates for rapid corrosion.

 

I think it is rather a shame that our 'heritage' lines cannot each muster up a decent number of 16 tonners for some shunting demonstrations on gala days.

Prime candidates for easy and profitable recycling.

[Pandora]

The stretched  version of the 16T wagon had 4 side doors and a longer wheelbase  and body with about 50% extra capacity (category MDV)?  Very few have survived, one example was marooned well away from public access or gaze at Three Bridges Depot for around 10 years.  It was saved by Pete Waterman who reproduced the wagon as  a 7mm kit.

Another orphan is the  GUV at Three Bridges station, the coach is so weathered and self- camouflaged you will not notice it. I hope the vehicle may find a home in the future.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Pandora

[mike hughes]

The stretched  version of the 16T wagon had 4 side doors and a longer wheelbase  and body with about 50% extra capacity (category MDV)?  Very few have survived, one example was marooned well away from public access or gaze at Three Bridges Depot for around 10 years.  It was saved by Pete Waterman who reproduced the wagon as  a 7mm kit.

Another orphan is the  GUV at Three Bridges station, the coach is so weathered and self- camouflaged you will not notice it. I hope the vehicle may find a home in the future.

It’s a BR CCT at 3 Bridges not a GUV

 

Michael

[hmrspaul]

The Bluebell one is now unique as the other two at Cottesmore were scrapped!

 

Mark Saunders

.. and as Mark is aware desperately needs taking in hand. A very historically important, unique, survivor which should be in the national collection - but they don't care! This is reportedly badly rotten.

 

I've mentioned this as being a candidate for models - in all common scales - to several manufacturer's without any expression of interest. Drawings are available. There are several private trader liveries that can be used, as well as neat BR finish - being all steel they were completely repainted unlike other unfit wooden open wagons.

 

Paul

[tomparryharry]

There are about 5-6 16 tonners at Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway.

 

However, it takes a certain standard of driver to take a rake down the valley, even if fitted stock. Also, the guard has to be up to the mark as well.

 

Ian.

[Sir Hadyn]

I bought two 16 tonners from Chesterton Fen sidings in 2000 for Snibston. Wonder if they are still there?