Jon Fitness' average 7mm signals workbench.

[Jon Fitness]

Hi Jon,

 

Can you confirm my measurements for the white band on a BR/ WR home signal please. Its the white band I am interested in.

 

By my calculations it 6.5 mm from the end of the arm and 5.9mm wide. Do these seem right to you.

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

Andy Jack

That sounds just about right. Strangely, although I paint loads of them I still have to check it every time. I'll have a look at my books in the morning.

JF

[two tone green]

Thanks Jon. It looks a bit big thats all.

[Jon Fitness]

One other thing, its a 4ft arm so 28mm long in 7mm.

If it's a 4ft arm for sidings/goods lines , including the spec. plate, my drawing shows 5mm of red then 3.3mm white stripe.

The larger 5ft arm, 7.35 of red then a 4.6mm white stripe. The dimensions are from Adrian Vaughan's GWR Signals book.

Just thought, it's for the later pattern arms is it?

HTH

Jon F.

[two tone green]

Hi Jon,

 

Thanks again for the info. I measured the signal arm but did not include the spectacle place so my measurement is scale four foot arm.  

 

I did not realise the arm included the spectacle plate as well.

 

The signal kit is the Scale Signal Supplies GWR 3 dual tubular post signal which I am using as platform starters. There is only one set of arms in the kit if I remember rightly.

 

But yours seem more realistic as my figures seem too big, especially the white band. It just looks wrong on my signals. Even comparing them to your photos of your builds mine look wrong.

 

My figures come from the MSE book by I think Derek Mundy, Sorry of the spelling is incorrect. He mentions that the real arms were from the outer tip of the arm it was eleven inches of red then ten inches of white.  Hence my 6.5 mm from the end of the arm and 5.9mm wide in 7mm.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi, I've got Derek's Book here but I haven't looked at it for a while, Looking at Adrian Vaughans book page 46, I'd go with 8mm for the red and 5mm for the white for a 4ft tubular arm                                                            .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

[Jon Fitness]

Hi Jon,

 

Thanks again for the info. I measured the signal arm but did not include the spectacle place so my measurement is scale four foot arm.  

 

I did not realise the arm included the spectacle plate as well.

 

The signal kit is the Scale Signal Supplies GWR 3 dual tubular post signal which I am using as platform starters. There is only one set of arms in the kit if I remember rightly.

 

But yours seem more realistic as my figures seem too big, especially the white band. It just looks wrong on my signals. Even comparing the

m to your photos of your builds mine look wrong.

 

My figures come from the MSE book by I think Derek Mundy, Sorry of the spelling is incorrect. He mentions that the real arms were from the outer tip of the arm it was eleven inches of red then ten inches of white.  Hence my 6.5 mm from the end of the arm and 5.9mm wide in 7mm.

 

Thanks again for the help.

Ah, I think Derek And Peter had different ideas about the size of GWR signal arms!

The latest super 7 etch from MSE seems to match the SSS one for size now though.

JF

[two tone green]

Hello both,

 

Thanks for the dimensions. They do seem a tad more realistic than the ones I worked out.

 

So its now roughly 7 to 8mm for the red and somewhere between 3.3 and 5mm for the white.

 

Good, will experiment with what looks right. May be a few weeks as I am will be away on holiday from Wednesday evening until 8th August.

[Simond]

I'm prepared to bet one Eengleesh pound that the SSS ones are pretty much exactly right!

[Stephen Freeman]

Ah, I think Derek And Peter had different ideas about the size of GWR signal arms!

The latest super 7 etch from MSE seems to match the SSS one for size now though.

JF

I believe that Andrew actually went to SVR and measured the real thing for the latest etches. There are so many problems with the original MSE ones that I now only use the tubular arm pattern arm etch when I need the actual bracket.

[two tone green]

Obviously not wanting to rush off on holiday this morning for nearly four weeks leaving the signal without its white band, I managed a quick hour to have a go at it.

 

The end result being this. I went for 5.5mm of red and a 5mm of white. I need to do the black stripe on the back as well but wait until after the holidays

 

 

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

Obviously not wanting to rush off on holiday this morning for nearly four weeks leaving the signal without its white band, I managed a quick hour to have a go at it.

 

The end result being this. I went for 5.5mm of red and a 5mm of white. I need to do the black stripe on the back as well but wait until after the holidays

 

IMG_1455 (768x1024)1.jpg

That's a little cutie !

[two tone green]

Thanks sweetie

[two tone green]

It started out as a test piece but will now be part of a DCC demo.

 

It's a platform starter if you had not worked it out will full working linkage but will have the servo above the board to show the control side of a DCC layout.

 

Not finished yet as the lower lovel of the ladder needs to be white and the top needs tidying up.

[The Stationmaster]

Obviously not wanting to rush off on holiday this morning for nearly four weeks leaving the signal without its white band, I managed a quick hour to have a go at it.

 

The end result being this. I went for 5.5mm of red and a 5mm of white. I need to do the black stripe on the back as well but wait until after the holidays

 

IMG_1455 (768x1024)1.jpg

 

That is a 4 foot arm - i.e. the enamelled section of the pressed steel arm is 4 feet long exclusive of the spectacle plate but it mounts over part of the spectacle casting as that includes the spindle.

[two tone green]

Thanks Mike for the info and pleased you enjoyed visiting my home county to board your boat.

[Jon Fitness]

Now then, I still have a few colour light signals to do for Steve Fays' Ranelagh Bridge layout.

There's a 2 aspect and a 3 aspect to do along with a few assorted ground signals. The ground signals have been awaiting more stocks of bi-colour LEDs to arrive so I thought I'd start with the 2 aspect.

The heads for all these signals have been rather superbly 3D printed by Pete Harvey so that's half the job sorted already.

I thought the 2 aspect would be a simple "plonk the head on a tube" job but having a look at the pictures revealed it wasn't that simple!

The head actually fits on a little bracket off the front of the post and the post has a finial on it! I may be wrong but I'm presuming it to be one of the early signals with a new head on it to replace the earlier searchlight type. The ladder safety hoop at the top is quite stylised as well.

Here's the head fitted with 5mm LEDs. The only ones I had were a bit long so the ends were filed flat to remove 2mm from the length. These were then fitted and wired up, the ends masked off and the whole head and back cover (seen still on it's 3D printed "sprue") given several coats of paint.

The post looks to be slightly wider diameter than a semaphore post and does not appear to have a change of diameter anywhere along its length. I made up a bracket from some brass scraps and drilled a hole for the wires

And here's the full assembly ready for a scrub and some paint.

The paint's now on and drying so piccies of the completed signal will be on later today!

Cheers

JF

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Jon Fitness

[steve fay]

Cheers Jon, that was a nice surprise!!

[Jon Fitness]

All done except for a bit of weathering....

and on electrical test. only 3volts with a 1k resistor!    .

I think on 12v, something like a 7.5k will be ok for these as they are ultrabright LEDs left over from my garden railway days!

I'll do a bit on the 3 aspect tomorrow then it's back to work, 12hour nights..

JF

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Mike for the info and pleased you enjoyed visiting my home county to board your boat.

 

And the inhabitants were very welcoming - lots of really helpful and pleasant folk about down there.

 

Now then, I still have a few colour light signals to do for Steve Fays' Ranelagh Bridge layout.

There's a 2 aspect and a 3 aspect to do along with a few assorted ground signals. The ground signals have been awaiting more stocks of bi-colour LEDs to arrive so I thought I'd start with the 2 aspect.

The heads for all these signals have been rather superbly 3D printed by Pete Harvey so that's half the job sorted already.

I thought the 2 aspect would be a simple "plonk the head on a tube" job but having a look at the pictures revealed it wasn't that simple!

The head actually fits on a little bracket off the front of the post and the post has a finial on it! I may be wrong but I'm presuming it to be one of the early signals with a new head on it to replace the earlier searchlight type. The ladder safety hoop at the top is quite stylised as well.

 

Cheers

JF

 

Lovely job John - definitely brings back memories of the old(er) Paddington - where i first worked, hmm, 51 years ago  

 

The E&C Line signals were always multiple lens heads - never searchlights.  The earliest ones had wooden posts, cast iron numberplates arranged vertically and, of course, finials.  The later ones and replacements had tubular steel posts most of which (if not all) were a simple tube with no 'step' in diameter - the earliest seem to have had finials but the later ones which replaced older wooden post signals usually had caps on top of the post.  Searchlight heads were only ever used - as far as I can establish - on the Absolute Block running lines as, in effect, direct replacements for semaphore signals showing equivalent aspects.

 

Oddly the earliest colour light of all at Paddington on the mainline side of the station was a 3 aspect, 3 lens, signal on the Down Main Line which replaced the 3 position UQ semaphore - it went in the 1930s rebuilding.

[Jon Fitness]

And the inhabitants were very welcoming - lots of really helpful and pleasant folk about down there.

 

 

Lovely job John - definitely brings back memories of the old(er) Paddington - where i first worked, hmm, 51 years ago  

 

The E&C Line signals were always multiple lens heads - never searchlights.  The earliest ones had wooden posts, cast iron numberplates arranged vertically and, of course, finials.  The later ones and replacements had tubular steel posts most of which (if not all) were a simple tube with no 'step' in diameter - the earliest seem to have had finials but the later ones which replaced older wooden post signals usually had caps on top of the post.  Searchlight heads were only ever used - as far as I can establish - on the Absolute Block running lines as, in effect, direct replacements for semaphore signals showing equivalent aspects.

 

Oddly the earliest colour light of all at Paddington on the mainline side of the station was a 3 aspect, 3 lens, signal on the Down Main Line which replaced the 3 position UQ semaphore - it went in the 1930s rebuilding.

Thanks for that Mike. I thought I was right with the single diameter tube. Didn't realise that the searchlight types were restricted to certain lines though. All interesting stuff.

After I'd built it I had a bit of a "doh" moment. I thought "hang on, how would the technician get the back open on the signal head to change the bulbs with that finial there?" A closer look at the one picture I had to go on revealed hinges and a catch on the side of the case. 

Its a bit of a sobering thought also, that most of these colour light signals were about long before most of the semaphore types I build now!

Cheers

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Right, onwards with the GW colour lights.

The 3 aspect head being fitted out and painted.

The basic structure of the post with brackets from brass section trimmed to shape and the small shunt signal head fitted. Various holes were provided to run wires through the brackets and post but it's not easy to get them through without tearing the wire's insulation risking short circuits.

The length of brass wire seen here will be used to pull the wires through from the route indicator. Hopefully the main signal heads wires will just go straight down the post!

Making up and fitting the box/hood for the route indicator.

Should hopefully get these colour lights finished soon so I can get back to some real signals!

"Real signals" he says...guess what? More GWR lower quadrants   Might have to slip a quick upper quadrant in just to keep my spirits up  

More soon..

Jon F.

[steve fay]

Excellent Jon even for fake signals!!! I'm back up Leamington in two weeks ( 6th 7th August ) if your available.

[Jintyman]

 

Should hopefully get these colour lights finished soon so I can get back to some real signals!

"Real signals" he says...guess what? More GWR lower quadrants   Might have to slip a quick upper quadrant in just to keep my spirits up  

 

 

 

And what is wrong with GWR lower quadrants may I ask, or is it that you make too many of them? 

 

Jinty

[Jon Fitness]

And what is wrong with GWR lower quadrants may I ask, or is it that you make too many of them? 

 

Jinty

More of an upper quadrant man meself although I'm not adverse to lower quadrants per se.  My roots are firmly in ex L&Y land  . I do get asked to build rather a lot of Gas Works Railway  GWR signals  though and they are, I must admit, rather attractive structures. . Just wish I had time to indulge myself a little more but I'm busy trying to earn enough through the model signals to re-paint and re-upholster my bus I'm (slowly) restoring so I can't be fussy!

As for modern colour lights though....  

JF

[steve fay]

Modern colour lights?? 1930's GW vintage don't you know!!!