Churminster & Stowe Magna, Southern Railway

[Tony Teague]

Just between ourselves, and not for wider communication, I think I have found a sneaky way of reducing my "missing list" by 1!

When updating the list yesterday, I decided that I really should cross check my source information as I have relied solely on the Collin Boocock volume "Locomotive Compendium: Southern" as the basis for my goal and for the "missing" list.

So I worked through everything against a copy of the original Ian Allan 1948 Locomotive guide - and what I found was that it does not mention the single remaining D3X as being in the BR fleet.

Other sources, such as Russell, shoow that one of the two original D3X's was scrapped in 1937 and the 2nd, no.2397 in 1948 - so given that my goal relates to what was on the books "as at Nationalisation" it might be reasonable for me to ignore it!

Clearly this is tempting, but being the honest chap that I am, (as well as having already bought a suitable chassis!) I think I will stick to my original list, although it pains me.

So I'd probably prefer that we keep this to ourselves and don't mention it to anyone else if you don't mind.

Tony

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

What better time to interupt my Review of the Year than when I have only just started!

 

Yesterday my good friend Mick 'the weathering Jedi' Bonwick called by to deliver, at a suitable social distance, some rolling stok that he had very kindly weathered on my behalf, and it is all stunning!

 

I had chosen to ask him to attend to the Golden Arrow - because on the one hand it would be a relatively clean train, but on the other, the Pullman models all come with shining white roofs, which in the real world simply didn't last more than a few days after being ex-works, and so this train would be difficult to get right.

 

 

As anticipated, Mick has done a stunning job, and I just need to re-unite the loco, No.21C3 'Royal Mail' with it's Golden Arrow regalia!

 

I won't bore you with a close up of every Pullman car in the formation which runs Chloria - Sappho - Zenobia - (Trianon = missing, see below) - Adrian - Cecilia - Niobe - Onyx - Lady Dalziel + 2 x PMV's - but here are a couple of samples:

 

 

Pullman Parlour 1st, Niobe

 

 

Pullman Kitchen 1st, Adrian

 

 

Guard Parlour 1st, Lady Dalziel

 

 

and bringing up the rear (closest to the buffers at the London end), two PMV's.

 

For the Pullman purists, I have not, and don't intend to alter the specific details of any of the Pullman cars which are Hornby RTR, however the make up of the train is based upon published research which shows that this specific formation ran on 16th June 1947, 1st October 1947 & 31st May 1948 - with just a one car exception. The exception, and current omission, is the 12 wheel Pullman Bar 'Trianon' (version 2) for which no RTR or model kit exists - but I am working on this and intend to rectify it when possible.

 

Mick had also weathered two other locos:

 

 

Ex-LB&SCR E3 No.2167, and

 

 

N15, King Arthur class No.771 'Sagramore' - seen here in the afternoon sun outside Churminster shed.

 

many thanks Mick for a stunning job!

 

I will return to the Review of The Year in my next post.

 

Tony

 

 

That’s a cracking result on those Pullman roofs. A light weathering is so difficult to do and I love the way that you can see that they were white no so long ago.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

Other sources, such as Russell, shoow that one of the two original D3X's was scrapped in 1937 and the 2nd, no.2397 in 1948 - so given that my goal relates to what was on the books "as at Nationalisation" it might be reasonable for me to ignore it!

If 2397 was scrapped in 1948 I think you're right that it was still on the books on 31/12/47. Sorry!

[pete_mcfarlane]

Bradley gives a scrapping date of July 1948 for the D3X but the Southern didn't always cut locos up that quickly. So it might have been withdrawn in in 1947 (or earlier) and not scrapped immediately.  And it might not have done any work for a while before withdrawal. It certainly got the post-war sunshine lettering so was working at some point in the late 1940s - there's a photo here: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/r-j-billinton-lbscr-d3-d3x-0-4-4t.942364/

 

You could always build your D3X without a motor (plus empty bunker and a sack over the chimney) and park it at the back of the depot.

[pete_mcfarlane]

And just to confuse things even more, if you follow the D3X photo on that link back to Smugmug it gives a date of 23/07/1949. 

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SRSteam/LBSCR-RJ-Bilinton/RJBillinton-Tank-engines/RJBillinton-LBSCR-D3D3X-class-0-4-4T/i-NpVMTvc

 

[Tony Teague]

7 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

And just to confuse things even more, if you follow the D3X photo on that link back to Smugmug it gives a date of 23/07/1949. 

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SRSteam/LBSCR-RJ-Bilinton/RJBillinton-Tank-engines/RJBillinton-LBSCR-D3D3X-class-0-4-4T/i-NpVMTvc

 

 

Yes I noticed that - interesting.

Thanks for the images, whatever I do it will certainly need to look fairly grubby!

[Tony Teague]

Ran a few trains today & the contrast between the unweathered Devon Belle, and the weathered Golden Arrow just stood out immediately!

 

 

 

Subtle, but very obvious!

 

Tony

[Tony Teague]

So, returning to the Review of 2020, let's complete the locomotive stuff.

 

According to the Locomotive Superintendant, a number of new acquisitions joined the fleet, although these did not affect the "missing Loco's" list:

 

 

A pair of Hornby's new Nelsons, which had to have smoke deflectors added, and were weathered.

 

 

An H15 'Chonker', expertly built & finished by Dave Taylor

 

 

A pair of Terriers, one each from Hornby & Rails / Dapol

 

 

And the new, class 0330 from OO Works; this last one being a new class to the fleet, but not on the 'Missing Loco' list as they had all gone before 1948.

 

The Loco Superintendant was vague about other acquisitions, but I gather there may have been several...

 

A good number of loco's have also been weathered, so that by the end of the year some 25% of the entire loco fleet have been treated; I regard this as one of the more important achievements of the year, although there are clearly a lot more to work through!

 

Next we will look at other rolling stock.

 

Tony

 

[Tony Teague]

Turning the Annual Review rowards Rolling Stock - it has been a very mixed year!

 

Not a single new passenger carriage was added to stock, although I did commence building my first brass coach kit during the spring weekend at Missenden; I think I chose the wrong protoype to start with - a 6 wheeler - and although I did complete some later work on the underframe, the whole thing remains incomplete at the side of the workbench.

This is a problem because it is one of a rake of 3 to form my breakdown train with the Bachmann travelling crane.

 

Conversely, I managed to complete 16 wagon or van kits, all but one has also been weathered, and the complete train has replaced an existing non-weathered train.

 

 

At the start of the year my aim was to "weather complete trains" and although I have weathered multiple locos, the van train is the only one that I have completed myself, however, Mick Bonwick has been a great help with this aim, and has weathered the complete TPO, a parcels train and the Golden Arrow - so much gratitude to Mick! Unfortunately there are rather a lot of unweathered complete trains out in the Fiddle Yards, and so this is likely to remain an objective for several years to come!

 

 

In June I also started a separate thread on pre-nationalisation Continental Ferry vans as I want to replace the two trains of such vans that I have in service, with at least one rake to the right  scale! So far this work has yet to yield anything but a lot of help has been received and 2 or 3 projects kicked off, so some may yeild results in 2021.

 

In my next post I'll cover the scenery and infrastructure side where thankfully a bit more has been achieved than on rolling stock!

 

Tony

 

 

[Mick Bonwick]

When we see a whole year's work condensed into a few sentences it really does illustrate how much has been done, despite what you think. So there!

[Tony Teague]

11 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said:

When we see a whole year's work condensed into a few sentences it really does illustrate how much has been done, despite what you think. So there!

 

Overall I tend to agree - it's easy to be self critical - and we have yet to come to the "other stuff".

[Tony Teague]

So, turning to the "other stuff"......

 

.....the main achievement was undoubtedly the completion of the Control Panel!

 

The first image shown on this thread was taken in May 2015, and if you zoom in to the lower half of the picture, this is what you see:

 

 

Really the only similarity is that it is in the same place as the new one! Note the old Hornby point levers along the top!

 

 

Just one month later, the new Control Desk is in place with the first paper version of what would become the new panel on top.

 

Whilst I was unable to restrain myself from making things as complex as possible, the main structure & framework that Giles Walburn put together five years ago has stood the test of time, and coped with everything that has been thrown at it (paper versions ran to 24!); however it was only one year ago that I felt confident enough that our design had reached a point of stability, such that we could order the printed top panel, and it has taken since then to become this, with everything up and running:

 

 

A big thank you again to Giles!

 

An unseen task that has been going on whilst the panel was commissioned, relates to "interlocking". The colour light signals already installed on the layout are semi-automatic, in that they turn red when a train passes and then clear a section at a time, back to green, however, they are now fully interlocked electrically with the levers at the front of the panel which essentially are route setting devices. The work involved in this has been considerable, such that for example, when a conflicting route is set, not only are point solenoids fired, but protecting signals are set, track sections are neutralised, whilst indicators on the panel show what has been set. Most of this has been achieved through use of multiple relays, but each route and each signal has to be considered carefully so as to ensure that all options are covered.

 

 

Away from the layout, Steve Hewitt has completed building the semaphore signals (only a selection shown) that will cover the Churminster area, and only the covid crisis has prevented their installation which will be subject to a similar interlocking arrangement; "similar" because unlike to colour lights, the semaphores will not be automated and will require operator intervention to pull them off, or return them to the danger position. Thanks to Steve for building these, whilst getting them installed must be a key priority for 2021; we can then move on to the final, unsignalled area, being the "branch / non-3rd rail" side of Stowe Magna.

 

 

Finally in my 2020 progress review, we come to the scenic side, where the new model of St Giles' Church, Stowe Magna has been completed and installed, plus the scenery around it refreshed.

 

 

My original goal for 2020 was to get a little further down the hill towards Stowe Magna station with this "scenic refresh", but I can't say that I am unhappy with the progress made - and at the bottom of the hill this also includes installing the 3rd rail through the main running lines at Stowe Magna station - actually there is a short bit into the tunnel that needs doing if the EMU's are to avoid a very long "coasting" section.

 

 

To conclude, 2020 has been a very productive year - in some ways the covid crisis has freed up more modelling time - although in some areas, what I achieved was not what I had planned!

 

In my next post I'll try to consider what I might want to get done in 2021......

 

Tony

Edited November 23, 2022 by Tony Teague
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[Tony Teague]

At considerable risk of being proved hopelessly wrong in a year's time, here are my current priorities for the layout for 2021; I have tried to keep it simple for a change:

 

Loco Department:

1. Reduce the "Missing List" by perhaps 3, to just 9; the deliveries are likely to come from the E5X, Hecate, and perhaps the C3 or C14. It would be good to firm up on plans for those that remain, but it is encouraging that since I re-published the list just a few days ago, I have received updates on no less than 5 of the 12.

2. Weather some more of the loco fleet; the 25% given above is accurate, so I'd perhaps like to get this up to say 35% but preferably to include the trains that go with the locos (see below).

 

Rolling Stock:

1. Get some further whole trains weathered; currently I estimate that there are only 8 complete trains weathered, and so a long way to go here. A target to double this would not seem unachieveable but each one will be a lot of work.

2. Re-introduce a couple of trains that are currently in storage, so as to get closer to filling the available Fiddle Yard space; as an example I have a complete Maunsell Ocean Liner set which is part weathered but out of service because it has unreliable kadee couplings:

 

 

Likewise a complete rake of ex-LSWR Ironclads, stored for the same reason (but also requiring weathering over Larry Goddard's exquisite paintwork!):

 

 

3. I'd really like to start delivering some Continental Ferry wagons so that I can retire & dispose of some of the HO vans currently running.

 

"Other Stuff"

1. The highest priority, when it is allowable, must be the installation of Steve Hewitt's semaphore signals to the Churminster area, together with the related interlocking. Completing this will also allow a start to be made on building the signals for the last unsignalled area around Stowe Magna.

2. Having completed the main Control Panel, there is a small subsidiary panel to be fitted further along the room which will enable separate control of two lines that are currently operated by electronic shuttle modules (which can be switched out); the narrow gauge quarry line is one of these which has only recently become operational. 80% of the wiring for this panel is already in place and the panel itself is on order.

3. The "scenery refresh" in the Stowe Magna area must be progressed and in particular it would be good to finally get the station completed!

 

So plenty to do (and there's loads more besides!).

 

May I end this post by wishing everyone who follows this thread a happy, safe and enjoyable Christmas - within the bounds of what is currently allowable. It has been a very strange and at times difficult year, and we must all hope for better things in 2021.

 

Happy Christmas!

 

Tony

 

 

[Arun Sharma]

The Marsh C3 is on its way. Although designed as etches in 2D, (either in AutoCad or DraftSight) the parts have been redrawn in 3D [in Autodesk Inventor] in scale thickness [0.3mm] to check for fit. As expected the compromises required for 4mm (16.5mm track gauge) are apparent but can be worked around.  The major compromise relates to the prototype having the smokebox and firebox actually seated between the frames. To do that with the smokebox would totally distort the 'face' of the loco so the standard compromise of having an arc-shaped cutout has been employed. I may try a digital experiment to see if the same sort of compromise will work on the firebox - I suspect it might.

 

Similarly, another of Tony's locos (DS75) is now ready - It just needs a suitable SPUD or similar.

 

[Tony Teague]

49 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

The Marsh C3 is on its way. Although designed as etches in 2D, (either in AutoCad or DraftSight) the parts have been redrawn in 3D [in Autodesk Inventor] in scale thickness [0.3mm] to check for fit. As expected the compromises required for 4mm (16.5mm track gauge) are apparent but can be worked around.  The major compromise relates to the prototype having the smokebox and firebox actually seated between the frames. To do that with the smokebox would totally distort the 'face' of the loco so the standard compromise of having an arc-shaped cutout has been employed. I may try a digital experiment to see if the same sort of compromise will work on the firebox - I suspect it might.

 

Similarly, another of Tony's locos (DS75) is now ready - It just needs a suitable SPUD or similar.

 

 

Thanks for posting the update Arun, and for all of the related work involved.

 

I am looking forward to getting both locos built and into the fleet! - should help to ensure that I hit at least one of my 2021 targets!

 

Tony

[Arun Sharma]

I tried the modification to the firebox by cutting out an arc around the [rear of the] centre frame splasher and similarly with the rearmost splasher. I think it works. The mod is coloured canary yellow in this pic. Once the horizontal curved splasher tops go on, the changes should make a considerable difference.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Arun Sharma
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[Tony Teague]

I felt especially lazy yesterday as I read Graham Nicholas' thread ( @LNER4479 ) in which he challenged himself to build a Comet coach kit in a single day, so I resolved that I would have to get my finger out today and make a bit more progress than I have of late!

 

When listing my goals for 2021, I mentioned the need to bring back into service a couple of complete train rakes that had been sidelined into storage for one reason and another, and on Christmas Eve I had started to work on my Maunsell Ocean Liner set, so once inspired, it was this that I resolved to get completed today - and here it is:

 

 

The train is made up of 7 carriages plus a bogie luggage van; the coaches are from Phoenix kits and I acquired them pre-built as a set about 15 years ago at a time when I was intending to standardise on Kadee couplings; I know that others swear by these but I found them unreliable, especially at changes in gradient, and I just couldn't get on with them - which caused the set to be taken out of service for several years.

 

 

As kit-built coaches these are quite heavy but one of my old Bachmann Lord Nelson loco's had no difficulty in shifting the train once I had changed all the couplings to simple wire loops and hooks, cleaned all of the wheels, added coach roof boards and weathered about two thirds of the set - the other couple of carriages had been attended to during a Missenden course a couple of years ago, as suitable material to learn weathering on!

 

I took pictures of each coach in the rake but they are poor as I didn't take time to light them properly, so I will re-take them in the next day or so, but here are a couple of samples:

 

 

The rake is topped and tailed by a pair of Pantry Brake 1st's - the least numerous type of Maunsell coach, and also contains one non-Maunsell vehicle in the shape of an ex-LSWR 'Ironclad' Dining Car:

 

 

The kitchen windows on this look rather shabby and I may have to change them at some point!

 

Overall I feel much better for my efforts, and the Ocean Liner Express is now returned to the operational fleet; I am just awaiting some suitable "Union Castle Express" headboards from Fox Transfers to finish the job off.

 

Tony

 

 

[Tony Teague]

A very pleasant surprise today was the arrival of the kit of parts for DS75, as promised by Arun Sharma at the foot of p.41!

 

 

The quality of the 3D print looks excellent and is very detailed - I had to turn down the exposure here because the print is brilliant white and none of the detail would have shown at all.

 

I'm now awaiting delivery of a suitable Spud-type motor so that construction can commence and make an early contribution to my 2021 goals.

 

Sincere thanks to Arun for his design work.

 

Tony

[mullie]

My experience of Spud bogies was not great, have they improved? If you use a spud you might be disappointed. 

 

I assume by ' spud type ' you mean not an actual  spud? I have been impressed by Bullants including easy DCC conversion and heard good things about Black Beatle bogies.

 

What do others think?

 

Martyn 

[Tony Teague]

6 minutes ago, mullie said:

My experience of Spud bogies was not great, have they improved? If you use a spud you might be disappointed. 

 

I assume by ' spud type ' you mean not an actual  spud? I have been impressed by Bullants including easy DCC conversion and heard good things about Black Beatle bogies.

 

What do others think?

 

Martyn 

 

By "spud type" I don't mean a potato

 

I was going to say that I have NIL experience of spud type bogies, however, I suppose I have two under my two NG locos on the line from Churminster Quarry - and they are certainly not the most reliable motors that I have - so this will be a learning experience!

 

It is important for me that the motor bogie fits well under the body and looks about right; conversely it's pulling power won't be important in this context, and I don't do DCC. (No spuds, no chips!! ).

 

Will post more when the thing arrives!

 

Tony

[Mick Bonwick]

9 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

 I don't do DCC. (No spuds, no chips!! ).

 

 

Groan.

[Tony Teague]

15 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

Groan.

 

I tried to get mash in there, but if I had, you'd have given me a roasting!

[Mick Bonwick]

26 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I tried to get mash in there, but if I had, you'd have given me a roasting!

 

And using boiled would have made it look a bit tatty.

[Denbridge]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

By "spud type" I don't mean a potato

 

I was going to say that I have NIL experience of spud type bogies, however, I suppose I have two under my two NG locos on the line from Churminster Quarry - and they are certainly not the most reliable motors that I have - so this will be a learning experience!

 

It is important for me that the motor bogie fits well under the body and looks about right; conversely it's pulling power won't be important in this context, and I don't do DCC. (No spuds, no chips!! ).

 

Will post more when the thing arrives!

 

Tony

It might be worth looking at the high level range. He does a kit for motorising a wagon which might fit. If not, he's invariably very helpful in solving any motor/drive fitment.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

(No spuds, no chips!! ).

That's only in Wiltshire, where they don't have French fried potatoes because...

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...there's no Devizes for Chippenham.

 

I thank you.