009 catenary layout- tram loco

[hayfield]

I have a very small collection of 009 items, rather than the larger H0e mainline system are there any smaller type layouts using Joef size locos, if so do they use N gauge masts rather than the much larger H0 ones,

 

Its just that one of my projects is a small tail chaser 009 layout and thought that overhead lines might add additional interest

 

Any thoughts on this idea is welcome

Edited October 18, 2018 by hayfield

[Gordon H]

Choice of mast size would surely be dominated by the rolling stock loading gauge rather than track gauge, so chances are HO masts would be a better starting point if you don't intend scratchbuilding the system yourself. Additional interest would be further enhanced if the wires were being used for power too.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Gordon H

[jamesg]

Part of what is now the Welsh Highland Railway was to be electrified with a 500V three-phase AC system, similar to some railways in Switzerland and Italy.  These use two overhead lines and a bow collector.  Unfortunately, the system never ran as the company building the line ran into financial difficulties.  In fact, there are some photographs of what was to be on RMweb.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/14885-beddgelert-1910/

[tebee]

I used HO curved tram type masts on my Manx Electric 009 layout many years ago.

[hayfield]

Thanks for the advice, as I am thinking  of a totally fictitious system I guess  I could use whatever system I like, power would be from the track as their would be steam and diesel locos as well, in addition the odd scenic siding and certainly the storage yards would be far easier to use without wires

 

Using initially the Joef locos and stock along with Peco trams etc, am I correct in thinking the former is nearer to H09 than 009. Certainly not looking for the large style Swiss meter gauge stock, I think I will dig out a loco to gauge height required as well as the odd coach. I am thinking that if it were too high, it may be prototypical but look out of perspective. 3 mm masts may be a good compromise

 

As for masts and wires, using a single wire rather than the 2 wire with supports would reduce height and again convey the minimalist charm of narrow gauge.

 

Locos ? any ideas please 

Edited October 8, 2016 by hayfield

[hayfield]

I have been doing a bit of surfing the web and it seems Egger Bahn did an electric loco, Kato N gauge Pantographs are £5 a pair.

 

Here is a good conversion, go down a few pictures to the Atlas Autorail

 

http://narrowgauge.retiarius.com/

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The trouble you will have is on curves. No getting away from the fact that the supply wire makes straight tangents to the curve, so if you use typical OO9 radii you will need a positive 'fence' of posts to keep the wire in some believeable relationship with the track and the loco's current collecting gear. And there goes the minimalist charm...

[asmay2002]

Catenary on the narrow gauge can be quite crude as here.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Catenary on the narrow gauge can be quite crude as here.

Obviously not big on health and safety in Albania!

[hayfield]

Catenary on the narrow gauge can be quite crude as here.

 

 

Love the hand held pantograph

[hayfield]

The trouble you will have is on curves. No getting away from the fact that the supply wire makes straight tangents to the curve, so if you use typical OO9 radii you will need a positive 'fence' of posts to keep the wire in some believeable relationship with the track and the loco's current collecting gear. And there goes the minimalist charm...

 

 

Was thinking of spring piano wire in 1 m lengths

[hayfield]

Well I got some time to do a bit of surfing/research on this idea and have come up with some options. At the moment my space is limited and as we hope to be building an extension to the property which will include a modelling room so will my the amount of modelling time I have. I saw an idea with a fold up N gauge layout either 2' of 3' square, cannot remember if it was on here or the Railway modeller. Having a small amount of 009 stock, this concept could of a small fold up layout could be a good little project. In addition an amount of N gauge cantenary came my way plus I had an enjoyable Italian holiday where the railway followed the coast and went through a section of tunnels/ towns and bays

 

 

The first test is would the N gauge Cantenary work, well with my Jouef Steatite loco under, the answer is not with the made up wires, perhaps with just single drop wires. Sommerfeld do do H0m masts which have a wire height of 55 mm against 39 mm for N gauge, but as my system will be smaller stock raising the nasts between 5 7 10 mm may work

 

 

But by lifting the masts by 5 mm there might be room for a single wire system. In H0 gauge Sommerfeld sell pedestals for raising the height, these could be made from Plasticstrut square tube, even raised higher if necessary. I will need a pantograph for the next test

 

 

I have some double masts which will be fine for straight track, I also have some much larger spans where the spans have been damaged, but these can be repaired and or reduced in width. At worst for both they could be altered into 2 single masts

 

 

Again just for testing 6" spacing of masts look fine, next step will be to build a test plank with a turnout about 24" long

 

I have also ordered from Japan 2 Kato 4 wheel motorised chassis, a pair of N gauge pantographs, plus a small etched Box Cab kit http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142139677884?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT designed to fit these chassis I also have an idea with the coach in the photo by fitting a diesel chassis to it and turning the small salon into a motor room with a pantograph on top. At worst the chassis have only cost me £12 each inc postage so not a great deal invested in the project. I also have a Glyn Valley tram body and a Farish (modern) 0-6-0 chassis as motive power

 

As far as the diorma/layout I have just bought a Faller 3 storey shop and flat set (3 units) which could be adapted to double the length as a low relief back drop, thinking 3.5 mm scale buildings would be more in keeping with 009

[Vecchio]

For the height of the contact wire consider that it has to be high enough in road crossings to allow heavy goods vehicles to pass. So even the train is smaller than standard gauge the height of the contact wire is more or less the same as it would be on 00. You will notice that if you see a pantograph of a narrow gauge loco. they always look a bit oversized or minimum taller than standard gauge locos.

 

I used 0.67 mm galvanized mild steel in the past and I am going for 0.5mm brass wire in my current project. Just to give you an idea how 0.67mm wire looks (ok it is not narrow gauge but just to see if this size it is realistic enough)

Vecchio

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Vecchio

[hayfield]

Thanks for that, as my idea is initially freelance I will use as many items which are to hand and or at low cost as this may be a throw away idea.

 

I do rather like the lattice type masts, having said this posts made from metal tubing or H section metal can be made quite cheaply, or I guess look at the cheaper end or the market.

 

Next is a larger mock up using a length of track and a turnout, plus some stock to test the practicalities and visual appearance.

 

I am initially thinking about using a single wire, do you make your own overhead wire looms or what ever the technical term is ?

[Vecchio]

Thanks for that, as my idea is initially freelance I will use as many items which are to hand and or at low cost as this may be a throw away idea.

 

I do rather like the lattice type masts, having said this posts made from metal tubing or H section metal can be made quite cheaply, or I guess look at the cheaper end or the market.

 

Next is a larger mock up using a length of track and a turnout, plus some stock to test the practicalities and visual appearance.

 

I am initially thinking about using a single wire, do you make your own overhead wire looms or what ever the technical term is ?

 

What you see here is all home made. I do not pay large sums of money to the German model industry if I can have a lot of fun in making it myself...

 

Have a look what I did some years ago...

This was on a layout which had both the Austrian and the Italian OHL systems. It was a lot of fun making it and showing it at exhibitions. And I always drive with Pantograph up - I am not a fan of pantographs not touching the OHL...

 

And if you look at Donnersbachkogel - I just restarted in making my own OHL.

 

Of course you should look into the Sommerfedt catalogue to get some inspiration. They have some OHL systems also for branchlines and for the Swiss narrow gauge system. Round poles are for sure easier to make and also prototypical for some of the small narrow gauge lines. If you go H profile you will have some cost.

 

The Austrian system I did is using concrete (centrifugally cast concrete) poles - they can easily be modeled from brass profiles.

Have fun! I look forward to your progress

 

Vecchio

[hayfield]

Vecchio

 

Thanks for both this link and the one in the thread, very interesting and enjoyable reading. Plenty to get my head around. I must say some truly stunning modelling

 

Good advice about looking at the Sommerfeld website and I think I need a catalogue for further ideas if I decide to build anything larger

 

Step 1 is a test plank and build a loco with working pantographs. Chassis, pantograph and body all in the post. Will pop down to the model shop for a length of track, and then solder up a turnout. If this works then on to :-

 

Step 2 built a small simple layout 3' to 3'6" square which folds in half, a simple roundy with a few points and some buildings

[Hobby]

Just one thing, I know the mast height looks like it is adjustable in your photos, but when putting locos "underneath" the OHLE like you have it is best to put the loco on some track as the rail/sleeper height will raise it a few mm so it will be tighter than you think!

[hayfield]

You are quite right the track will elevate the loco and stock, hence the need for a length of track so I can test further. I guess the masts will need to be on either a brick or concrete plinth/base which will be above the rail height

 

In the long run either TT of H0m masts may be better, but other than the rolling stock everything else is in house and at the moment all that is at risk is £5 worth of pantographs. I can revert back to steam/diesel operation if all fails

[hayfield]

This is the layout which has given me the idea 4 Arches halt  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112167-four-arches-halt/

 

I am thinking of a larger size board than the one used and perhaps oval not square

[hayfield]

Went and bought a length of 009 track so I can get a better idea of height. 

 

 

Under a post set 10mm above baseboard height, the track is 4 mm high

 

 

This post is raised up by 5 mm, also has a wire arm which I will dispense with

 

 

It would help if I made a roof, bit firstly don't like the bogie positions, so will alter them. Secondly have a plan to make these into an EMU using a diesel chassis

 

Next up will be a test plank, will make a small turnout so I can set up a small 2' section with a turnout in the middle. I see its code 80 rail and I may buy some later, will use some bullhead rail to start with.

 

I have a cunning plan tat' I have been considering using C&L ST base plates with code 82 rail 

 

[£1.38]

Code 80 is quite large for narrow gauge. If you are handbuilding track, then something smaller would look better - maybe code 60 or even code 40 for a true lightly built narrow gauge railway.

[Hobby]

It's just right for modern Continental narrow gauge which uses 6.5ins (approx!) depth flatbottom rail. Bit big for much of the UK stuff, though. Here's a comparison photo of the old and new track used on the JHMD Czech 760mm line in Bohemia:

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Hobby

[hayfield]

 

May be a few days before much can be done, but started off with some C&L sleeper (not timber) strips cut and fixed into place, will use C&L code 82 rail and as I said C&L ST base plates. All in stock so no real outlay

[hayfield]

Last week I bought a row of 3 Faller shops with flats above, whilst it is taking the model a bit Continental I am thinking H0 scale buildings may look better and I might try and tone down the looks a bit. They have been built but not painted and may be kit bashed to fit into a reasonable order within the space available. They cost me £15 inc postage and I was astonished how much they retail for. Last night I bought another 6 lots which comprised of 7 buildings, all but one un-built. I have a couple of ideas for both corners and how to hide the exits from the scenic section.

 

I must now think about a size, as I said the layout that gave me the idea is 24" square (N gauge) whilst 4' long is looking to be the best option I was hoping to keep it to 3'wide, so when it is folded in half its 4' x 18" x 12"

 

Must wind up Templot and see what I can get away with as far as a track plan is concerned

[hayfield]

Here is a quick (and very rough)plan of the layout. with a baseboard of about 4' x 3' which will be hinged in the middle to fold up. Rear half storage, front scenic

 

 

Simply a 2 road station on right, warehouse between single line and siding, may even drop the front part where the siding is for a quay.

 

Town scene both behind running line and in front of the station. The storage sidings will start from the tunnel at one end

 

Will be a fold up layout and if I box in the underneath I may be able to make a storage space for stock.