nor here

[Guest stuartp]

the profile of the end looks as though one of the extruded aluminium roof sections (Comet, Wheeltappers Coaches, MJT) might have fitted. Have you tried one?

 

Good point. I thought that earlier on in the build so went fishing about in the loft and tried the roof off one of the Caley coaches. It looked miles out - in particular it looked as though the radius immediately above the cantrail was tighter on the GER roof than on the aluminium extrusion. It was at this point that I decided to try rolling one, and when that didn't work, laminating one.

 

However, prompted by your comment I checked the roof profiles in "Historic Carriage Drawings", went rummaging again yesterday and tried again. With a bit more care in the test fitting it's actually as near as damn it, nothing that a couple of light file strokes won't cure. I don't have any spare aluminium but I have a moulded LNER roof off a Mailcoach tourist coach (the rest of which has been slowly canibalised for bits) so I'll try that tonight. I have a notorious blind spot when it comes to roof profiles, I don't trust my own judgement at all. I still can't decide whether the GER roof really is slightly tighter at the eaves or whether it's an optical illusion caused by the continuous low rainstrip, something not found on the BR/late LMS roofs I'm used to. There's a photo in the 'Steam Days' article looking along the train from a slightly elevated position and the GER roof doesn't look radically different from the CR and BR vehicles either side of it.

 

So thank you, you've saved me a tedious job which I was putting off . I'll hang on to the laminated roof blank though, no doubt a couple of projects down the line I'll be sitting here thinking "what I really need is a slab of styrene about 40mm wide and 6mm thick", at which point I will discover that I've lost it.

[Jamie]

You and Dave are as bad as each other, convincing me I need to learn to build these brass kits. I doubt a couple of porthole Staniers will be coming my way when I next cross paths with Comet.

[jwealleans]

Have you got the bogies yet, Stuart? Reading back through the thread reminded me that I asked the question when I was building my Worsley Works ones and our own Coachmann pointed me to the HE ones as the closest Fox bogies available. Don't get the ones with stepboards, though - the steps are in the wrong place.

 

It's looking damn fine so far. How far are those LMS battery boxes from the GER ones? I scratchbuilt mine.

[Guest stuartp]

Sorry Jonathan, should have made that clearer. The battery boxes came as part of the GER chassis etch, its just the whitemetal bits that are cobbled together from the bits box. I've got a pair of 247 bogies, I'm not sure whose range they were previously part of but they offer a steps/no steps version. I got the no steps version (actually, I nicked them from the pile of bits set aside to finish a Highland TPO) and I've built one so far but as supplied the stretchers are too narrow. Rather than add shims I'm afraid I drilled the axle boxes further down until the drill almost broke through and it just takes a 26mm axle and bearing.

 

Caley Coaches do a gorgeous etched brass and version with whitemetal springs and bolster but they're a fiddle to put together and I'm not sure I've got the patience to do any more !

 

Jamie - once you've sussed the actual soldering bit (keep it spotlessly clean, use a big iron and remember that both sides of the brass get hot !), the hardest bit about a coach kit is rolling the tumblehome and Comet do that for you. After that it's really just a case of constantly checking for squareness and not doing anything daft (like ignoring the designer's separate body/chassis sytem then wondering how on earth you're going to fix the roof on !).

[jwealleans]

but as supplied the stretchers are too narrow

 

It wasn't just mine then! I did report it to Gary at the time. I think I packed mine out with some whitemetal offcuts.

 

You're lucky getting battery boxes - I didn't get any for the clerestory I built and that came with the chassis etch.

[iak]

Hmmmm

This is a very tasty looking carriage having not looked in for a few weeks.

Would you do more BB kits mind - the lack of instructions could be obstructive to some.

[Guest stuartp]

Thanks, it hadn't had a lot done to it for a couple of weeks !

 

Having built one I would have no qualms at all at building more of Bill's kits, the fit is spot on and there are some clever touches. However, most of my other layout requirements can be met by Airfix/Comet lash-ups (lots of Staniers !) or by Bachy Mk 1s so this will be the last full build for now unless I turn up something obscure which happens to be in his catalogue. His range of 'made to order' sides and kits is vast - there's no way you could write instructions for all of them when sales for most will be (I imagine) in penny numbers.

 

Waiting in the pile is a set of Bill's etched sides for HM The King's saloon (part of a future project) but these are going to be used as overlays rather than a full kit.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Stuart, I really can't fault Halfords' primer and paint. I've used it for my P1 brake 3rd.

Which reminds me, I need to finish the damn thing!

Your coach looks very nice indeed. I'm going to have a bit of a 'Brass Blitzkrieg' this year, having been acquiring lots of brass rolling stock kits.

Building them is just so flaming satisfying...!

 

Dave.

[Guest stuartp]

Thanks Dave. The thing with Railmatch is that I've had excellent results in the past, both from tins and aerosols. The rail blue on my 121 went on in a silky eggshell finish straight from the can, and all the bauxite wagons earlier in the thread were painted with the same stuff, often in less than ideal conditions (sprayed outside on damp evenings etc). So this has been a bit of a pain.

 

However, having seen the Halfords finish with this particular colour I think I'm a convert !

[Guest Max Stafford]

Horses for courses Stuart.Your previous arrangements seem to work fine for some applications, but this is definitely the best way to do coaching stock!

 

Dave.

[Guest stuartp]

Absolutely. I'm trying to remember the last time I actually painted a coach before this, it must be ten years ago ! Bow-pen lining for the ham-fisted tonight, it might be tempting fate to put the cellulose thinners back in the garage just yet ! Incidentally, after I decided to go with Halfords I looked up and followed the advice given by Coachmann, Bertiedog and others on here, and wiped it over with vinegar to etch the surface before applying the primer.

 

True to form, I've just realised I've forgotten the door ventilators !

[Jamie]

Very nice Stuart, have started putting iron to brass myself so I shall be referring back to this.

[31A]

Good to see your coach finished Stuart and what an elegant vehicle! B) You must be very pleased with it.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Stuart,

 

For crinkly /corrugated curtains...

 

Crepe Paper.

 

Quite often available in colours that are a close match to the real curtains!

 

 

I've found near matches for Red and Blue curtains and I'm sure there is orange available that is near the colour you have made yours!

 

Thanks

[Guest stuartp]

Thanks Steve, I am rather pleased with it. Four months start to finish is a record ! Hardly Coachman's rate of production but a huge improvement.

 

Scottish Modeller - Thanks, we've probably got some somewhere !

[Guest Max Stafford]

Really fine job Stuart, it's turned out very well. Sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labours now!

 

Dave.

[jwealleans]

Excellent job, I've been following with interest as you've finished it off. I've just received one of the earlier versions from Dan Pinnock so I shall probably refer back to this thread when I start that.

 

Did you say what was in the rest of the rake when you started? It looks an interesting set.

[Wizard of the Moor]

The details of the set used on the 1960 RCTS Scottish Railtour was discussed on the old forum .

 

Well done on getting such a good result out of the kit, Stuart. I hope that mine comes out looking as good as that.

[jwealleans]

discussed on the old forum .

 

I had a feeling I'd read it somewhere. I think it's on page 1 of this one as well but it was taking so long to load I lost patience.

[Guest stuartp]

Thanks everyone, the temptation to put this back in the loft was great on a few occasions (especially as it isn't core rolling stock for Newton Stewart !), it was only the fact that I'd posted it on here which stopped me.

 

The first page is a bit of a pain, almost the whole of the RMweb 2 thread has copied over as one post which makes it a bit top heavy. I may delete the first bit and just leave a link, or put the pics in the gallery.

 

The rest of the set was:

 

Gresley D196 BSO.

Mk 1 TSO (also finished but all I did was re-number it)

GER Cafeteria Car

Caley SK

Caley BCK.

 

 

Four fifths of the set is in the Portwiliam pic above, arranged in the correct formation. The Caley coaches are structurally complete and have been for years (!), I haven't done the Gresley yet. The plan is to finish the complete set by Christmas but as that involves painting full CR lined livery twice don't hold your breath !

[Guest stuartp]

The pic in "Steam in Scotland" was a beautiful 'steam in the landscape' shot. Very atmospheric and beautifully composed but not brilliant from a detail point of view. Identifying the vehicles was going to be something of an epic. The crane itself was no problem, "British Railway Journal" published an article on LMS breakdown arrangements some years ago which identified the crane as RS 1073/30, built by Cowans Sheldon in 1942. There was even a drawing, albeit a weight diagram, and a pointer to a more detailed drawing in an ancient 'Model Railways', which of course I didn't have.

 

The tool van looked a bit like a LNWR full brake, except it appeared to have inset doors at the ends of the vehicle. I knew the LNWR 2pm and WCJS vehicles had this feature which also seemed to point to LNWR origins. Furthermore, later in the book there was a photo of the Perth crane and what looked like a very similar tool van attending a derailment on the C&O - the end of the tool van framed part of the shot and the bogies looked very like those on Ratio LNWR kits.

 

Then some time later I found another photo of the Hurlford BTU in another Derek Cross book "Roaming the Scottish Rails". The brake van was different (but still a pre-group 6-wheeler) and the photo was almost a head-on shot, but the tool van bogies were a bit clearer. They looked different to the Perth van, possibly outside framed, possibly equalised along the lines of GWR 'American' bogies. I knew some LSWR vehicles used outside framed bogies, and there was one on 51L's header cards, but research stopped here for a while.

 

By this time t'interweb was becoming an occasionally useful tool for modelling research. Courage screwed in both hands I posted a query on rec.models.rail newsgroup (I think) which produced a response from a couple of people that they didn't know what it was either but the bogies looked like those used by the L&Y, and had I considered dropping the L&Y Association a line ? I did and received a response that their carriage expert was unwell but would get back to me. He didn't (hope he's alright) but in the meantime I dropped lucky.

 

In a bored moment in between other jobs I typed "Hurlford tool van" into Google. It came back with a link to the Transport Treasury's list of Norris Forrest photos, one of which apparently showed "DM198625 POWER TOOL VAN, HURLFORD". There were also a couple of pics of the Hurlford crane on a job in Auchinleck so an order went in the post.

 

The 10x8s which came back were pure gold. There was my van, out of use and looking a bit dilapidated but a fantastic 3/4 view showing all the detail I could wish for. It even showed most of the NER brake and part of the crane. Even if I never identified the origins of the vehicle there was enough here to bash a reasonable representation but I wanted to be sure. As well as the inset doors there were fairly distinctive brackets at intervals along the solebar, and tall round-topped windows were visible where part of the sheeting had been pulled off. What followed was a systematic trawl through every book on coaching stock I could find in every library and bookshop I visited, looking for L&Y coaches and these diagnostic features. Eventually, in Borders in York I found RW Rush's "Lancashire & Yorkshire Coaching Stock", published by Oakwood. In the diagrams section was a series of vestibuled coaches in lengths from 52' to 56', all with the characteristic inset doors and solebar brackets. A little while later I bought a copy of "Historic Carriage Drawings" which featured more of these vehicles, Aspinall 1900 arc roof open saloons apparently.

 

I spent some time trying to reconcile my photo with the published drawings to try to work out exactly what DM198625 started life as. In particular the drawings seemed to have more solebar brackets than my van. Eventually I stopped worrying about it and took a punt that it was probably a 52' coach, the brackets had probably been moved when it was converted (they conveniently line up with the new doors) and that I'd model what I saw.

 

If anyone is still awake there is actually a point to this. We're all getting increasingly used to the fact that if you pop a post on here or other boards asking "Ere, anyone know what this is ?", nine times out of ten some helpful soul will eventually reply. I've done it myself, thanks to two RMwebbers in particular I now know more about GER catering arrangements than I ever thought possible. However, sometimes the only way to find out is patience, luck and painstaking hard slog. Fortunately that's one of the bits of modelling I like best.

[jwealleans]

Dead right, Stuart. I started researching the Chipman weedkilling train before the Internet was really much use as an investigative tool and although it was a lengthy and frustrating process as you've described, it was very satisfying when I had enough to put a train together. Of course, more information has come out since and my original research wasn't completely accurate - generally where I filled in gaps with what I hoped were intelligent guesses - but the process was very worthwhile in and of itself. It's one of my favourite aspects of the hobby too.

 

I like where this thread is going next.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Well as I fancy a similar type of train for my Inchkennet project, I'll be watching closely for ideas Stuart. I already have a Manson 6-wheel brake earmarked and an old Dublo crane. I'm going to have a good look around for suitable other vehicles. An ex-NB coach as a crew mess sounds like a possible too!

 

Dave.

[Guest Max Stafford]

You're quite good at this sort of thing Stuart, aren't you...?

 

Dave.

[Oldddudders]

You're quite good at this sort of thing Stuart, aren't you...?

Wonderfully understated, sir! As a ten-thumbed bozo, I adore Stuart's patient description of what he is doing, and the bulldog-clips-and-all pics really help people at my level, I think. Elsewhere on RMWeb, I am enjoying Colin Parks and Steph Dale in their respective scratchbuilds in plastic, and Stuart's progress here is another to be watched and mulled over. Inspiring stuff!