David Todd Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 This signal is on the "down",to Dover Priory,in 1996, when Dover Town yard was Closed. I think,the white X, means,the feathers/points are no longer in use. What would its modern equivalent be , as a single aspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Impossible to say Dave without knowing the current track plan ahead of the signal and permitted moves. If it is just now plain line to the next signal, then I would assume a single head LED. Or do you mean that you are assuming Town Yard and the loco had stayed open? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Thanks Mike,it was a bit of an open Q. Hope to rephrase it soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave55uk Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I would say it indicates that the feathers are not in use. Such white crosses are normally placed over the lenses but perhaps they couldn't in this instance for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 The white cross does indicate out of use, but as the feathers would have been de-activated, it is not really necessary, just convention. The application of a white cross to a stop or subsidiary signal (as opposed to an indicator) is a much more important matter, as it tells the driver to disregard it, and to obey all other signals. In theory, such matters are pre-advised to drivers and guards through the weekly (or daily if an emergency) notices, but the system provides belt and braces in the event that one or more drivers has missed the info. When such weekly and daily notices long with the four weekly, more comprehensive, notices were issued in booklet form, it was a key role for me and others. when in junior operations management roles, to ensure these were rapidly distributed to the appropriate signing on points and other operational locations, particularly signal boxes. We did this completely in ignorance as to whether the S&T (or PWay for some things, such as temporary speed restriction signs) had put the necessary physical signs, such as the crosses, in place. We all assumed everyone would do their job, and 99.99% of the time, they did. By the time I left BR/RT/NR, in elevated circumstances, such notices were being issued electronically, which I would assume is far more reliable, but it still does not guarantee that every driver has seen, let alone read the pertinent messages (if they are driving trains not yet fitted with intelligent info control systems, or on lines not yet so fitted). Hence the need to continue with physical signs on the ground. Where such "feathers", or theatre style route or subsidiary instruction (which is what are the various light boxes under the signal in the picture Dave has posted, but which would now be electronic LED displays themselves) are used with LED single lens, multiple-aspect signals, I would assume such crosses would still be in use where part or all of the routes controlled by that signal, or the signal itself, are not yet in use, or have been discontinued. Someone not of my vintage who actually deals with these things now will need to comment about that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 12, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2016 The big question - without looking at your layout thread - is what you are looking to signal at that location? The junction indicator (feather) has obviously been taken out of use (presumably following recovery of the junction towards the docks as it read towards the DOwn Marine line leading into Dover Marine. The subsidiary with the two stencil indicated routes might also have been out of use but as it was subsidiary it had not been bagged over. It read to either the Reception Siding (immediately in advance of the signal on the Down side - with route indication 'R') or to the Dock Siding at Archcliffe Jcn in the 'vee' between the Down Marine and the line from Hawkesbury Street Jcn - with route indication 'D'). Your local knowledge and past research wlll no doubt probably be more than sufficient to know if either of those two sidings survived the closure of the running connection towards Dover Marine. In some respects far more interesting is the GPL nearer the viewpoint. This had obviously at some time replaced the original illuminated disc at that spot but I see that it lacks a red aspect and the associated crossover connection from the Up Siding has been removed. Thus I wonder if the GPL was used as either a repeater or 'outer indicator' for the next ground signal towards the junction which stood at the trailing crossover (assuming that was still there) or was used ina similar manner in connection with teh ground signal at the junction trailing points? Pictures taken in the late 1980s or (possibly more likely) the early-mid 1990s perchance? Edit to correct typo in Archcliffe and add the PS below I also notice taht the signal not only has its new 'BR standard' style ID plate but has also retained its previous Southern region style plate - interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 As the signal is dis When such weekly and daily notices long with the four weekly, more comprehensive, notices were issued in booklet form, We still get our WONs, PONs and late notices in paper form although we have just been issued with tablet computers so their days are numbered. playing a red aspect it is obviously still in use so I agree with the others that the feather has been taken out of use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Our wons and pons are still paper, because we are not allowed to have our company issued tablets switched on in the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 The big question - without looking at your layout thread - is what you are looking to signal at that location? The junction indicator (feather) has obviously been taken out of use (presumably following recovery of the junction towards the docks as it read towards the DOwn Marine line leading into Dover Marine. The subsidiary with the two stencil indicated routes might also have been out of use but as it was subsidiary it had not been bagged over. It read to either the Reception Siding (immediately in advance of the signal on the Down side - with route indication 'R') or to the Dock Siding at Archcliffe Jcn in the 'vee' between the Down Marine and the line from Hawkesbury Street Jcn - with route indication 'D'). Your local knowledge and past research wlll no doubt probably be more than sufficient to know if either of those two sidings survived the closure of the running connection towards Dover Marine. In some respects far more interesting is the GPL nearer the viewpoint. This had obviously at some time replaced the original illuminated disc at that spot but I see that it lacks a red aspect and the associated crossover connection from the Up Siding has been removed. Thus I wonder if the GPL was used as either a repeater or 'outer indicator' for the next ground signal towards the junction which stood at the trailing crossover (assuming that was still there) or was used ina similar manner in connection with teh ground signal at the junction trailing points? Pictures taken in the late 1980s or (possibly more likely) the early-mid 1990s perchance? Edit to correct typo in Archcliffe and add the PS below I also notice taht the signal not only has its new 'BR standard' style ID plate but has also retained its previous Southern region style plate - interesting. I suspect, from my brief time as a junior shunter at the link span at Dover Marine in the '70's, that the GPL is actually a calling on signal, as I recall many occasions where more than one train would enter the reception road at one time, simply because we, and the Town Yard shunters, could not clear them fast enough. We had to split each arrival for the link span which used to drive the Town boys bonkers, but it was not our fault that the 08's simply could not cope. They replaced them with 33's after I left. But the GPL description is my speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Well, that seems to have opened a can of worm's, let's leave it resting for now. The photos were kindly sent to me by Lyddrail, 3/4 years ago, they were taken 1996 before the Dover Town Yard tracks were lifted. Thank you, for taking the time to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 To be honest, I was going to signal,what is now on the real section of track. But, I had put in these two crossovers, the nearest to enter/depart the yard from the West (Folkestone), The furthest crossover was for Ceps to enter Marine Station,from the West. Here is an "official" sketch of the old days, I bought. ( I do have the present day signal dia.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 To be honest, I was going to signal,what is now on the real section of track. But, I had put in these two crossovers, the nearest to enter/depart the yard from the West (Folkestone), The furthest crossover was for Ceps to enter Marine Station,from the West. image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Here is an "official" sketch of the old days, I bought. ( I do have the present day signal dia.) image.jpeg image.jpeg Flipping heck Dave - at first glance at the first two photos I thought I was looking at the real thing, as your eyes are drawn to the cliff. Staggeringly great modelling there, on top of what you have done with Priory. I am greener than the greenest green thing....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Flipping heck Dave - at first glance at the first two photos I thought I was looking at the real thing, as your eyes are drawn to the cliff. Staggeringly great modelling there, on top of what you have done with Priory. I am greener than the greenest green thing....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg The first two pictures are brilliantly realistic but I was a bit disappointed with the third - I think you have more work to do there...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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