Just a Goods shed, plus layout...Rye Sands....

[bertiedog]

Yes many beers in the pub over the years, and as a kid played on the abandoned wagon on the raised end portion of the track near the pub. The model is too small to be Rye Harbour, so just bits and pieces from the place.

On the far bank are some remains of the Rye and Camber tramway, that served Camber golf Course, and was subsidised out of Club Bar takings! Once owned by Col Stephens as part of his ramshackle collection of minor railways.

You could model the Martello Tower of course

The main visitors these days are there to see the nature reserve protected from the sea by shingle banks and concrete sea defences along Pett level,

Rye and the harbour are in Sussex, just, as the Kent border cuts in close before Camber sands n the Denge marsh.

[Giles]

It would appear that the military (Heaven knows which part....) used Morris Commercials tarted up into their usual green - with a variety of bodies fitted.

I have one spare which I'll happily send you by way of thanks. (In NCB livery though - not Army Green!)

[bertiedog]

Modern view of Rye Harbour area.

In the war the whole place was off limits, but by the 1950's was back to mormal, except for the ranges and training areas beyond Camber. Army guard huts had been turned back to fishermens huts. The old grounded coach is still there. These were common at Dungeness along the coast, as well as at Pett Level , a very highly defended invasion site in thw war. the whole area is defned by the Royal Military canal built to prevent invasion by France in the Napoleonic period. The Martello Tower was a Bastion Gun Fort to defend the coast and the harbour entrance.

Martello Toers were bulit all along the Kent and Sussex coast with overlapping firing ranges. Reactivated in both WW they were often served with narrow gauge railways laid on temporary track of 18 inch, some having built in stretches of track as in the bigger Palmerston Forts, used to move shells etc to the guns.

The temporary tracks got ripped up and used by Fishermen to transport catches from the boats on the shingle beaches to the nearest road. Some survive at Dungeness and Hastings Beach. Usually worked by rope haulage from a winch, often made from scrapped motor car or van chassis.

[phil_sutters]

Yes many beers in the pub over the years, and as a kid played on the abandoned wagon on the raised end portion of the track near the pub. The model is too small to be Rye Harbour, so just bits and pieces from the place.

On the far bank are some remains of the Rye and Camber tramway, that served Camber golf Course, and was subsidised out of Club Bar takings! Once owned by Col Stephens as part of his ramshackle collection of minor railways.

You could model the Martello Tower of course

The main visitors these days are there to see the nature reserve protected from the sea by shingle banks and concrete sea defences along Pett level,

Rye and the harbour are in Sussex, just, as the Kent border cuts in close before Camber sands n the Denge marsh.

We have had several holidays in the area, staying in friends' big static caravan at Winchelsea Beach. Although some have become almost totally enclosed by extensions, there are a number of old panelled coaches, converted into homes - originally, I have been told, for ex-servicemen after WW1. They are along The Ridge beyond the western edge of the Rye Harbour Nature Reserve. I have some pictures, if anyone is interested.

[bertiedog]

The houses that are converted from coaches are at Seaton's Harbour, where there used to be visible remains in place on the beach until the increased shingle defences covered them up. The cricket field hollow was where the harbour was, with sea lock gates to retain the water at low tide. The scheme in the late Georgian period was abandoned and the harbour returned to the river estuary. Some of the buildings there are on land that was unadopted, and squatters right development took place in the 1920's and again after the 2nd WW. Being a possible invasion site it was a restricted area in the war, as was all of the Romney Marsh coastline. It was basically one huge military camp along the shoreline. Nearby Pett level was used after the D day invasion as a terminal post for communication cables laid over the channel to France, as the troops advanced to Paris and onwards.

 

Parts of the coast were fitted with an anti invasion scheme from the Petroleum Warfare Dept, who built pipes along the coast to spray burning petrol over the beaches and make an invasion landing impossible. Some traces of the pipes are still in position, long rusted through. The forgotten fact is that the UK was awash with fuel, the storage was at maximum due to rationing, and the vast quantities of fuel to be used was of no consequence. In the late 1930's a network of oil pipelines had been laid around the country to facilitate oil movement without using trains or tankers. The PWD was connected up to this system.

 

The Germans knew we had all the fuel, and their invasion plans relied on capture of the oil, with the Germans not bringing fuel supplies. Whitehall cleverly released a newsreel film of the PWD petrol system being tested in Dorset, which got back to Berlin, and they were horrified to see the effect of the burning beaches. This was one of the reasons Goering insisted an aerial invasion was best, and required destroying the RAF.

 

Most of the area at Rye was cleared up by the end of the 1940's, but there are still concrete defences and pillboxes along the coast. most of Rye harbour is a nature reserve nowadays.

 

Stephen

[Tove]

Thanks for the last post,that was a bit of an eye opener for me. I`ve never heard of the Petroleum Warfare Dept mentioned before and certainly not in any documentries that i`ve watch.

The failed German invasion always seem`s to be atributed to the success of the air campain over the south coast,so i`m now thinking that if the leaked news reel about the 'burning beaches' put the frightners up the Germans so much then it at least deserves some credit?.(or have i simply missed it)

 

Best,

 

Brian.

[bertiedog]

Thanks for the last post,that was a bit of an eye opener for me. I`ve never heard of the Petroleum Warfare Dept mentioned before and certainly not in any documentries that i`ve watch.

The failed German invasion always seem`s to be atributed to the success of the air campain over the south coast,so i`m now thinking that if the leaked news reel about the 'burning beaches' put the frightners up the Germans so much then it at least deserves some credit?.(or have i simply missed it)

 

Best,

 

Brian.

Just a detail in the strategy of a pretty desperate country. We still had appalling losses in weaponry due to the French collapse leaving equipment in France (Germans even used RAF planes left and repaired).

Resort was made to poison gas stocks, nerve gas, and use of flame throwing equipment, and petrol enhanced landmines to take out tanks. Our advantage was we were defending an island, fully equipped with Radar, decoding, and massive spy inroads into the German Government. Such tactics as the PWD would have only been a side line to an aerial invasion,

Galland took part in an assessment of the possible sucess of a invasion in the 1970's, it failed on all counts for many reasons. but the biggest was the Royal Navy being used to prevent the occupation of the Channel.

[bertiedog]

On the layout two issues, longer grass and the right gravel, as the static sieve only does about 3mm flock, and it needs far longer in patches. I have another unit that does longer, but is very slow in operation. It might need a new High Voltage unit fitted and a bigger feed pipe.

I think the best gravel will be fine aquarium gravel, mixed with sand, and normal O gauge ballasting for the track, some of which will be ballasted up to the rail top.

There's enough vehicles (three including a motorcycle), and the goods shed, but the lighthouse needs to get underway, estimated at about 16 inches high, all in wood, with ply surfaces. The sheds are relatively easy card and wood construction. Track is all Peco bullhead, with two scratch built points.

Stephen

[Nearholmer]

I too am a Rye Harbour-o-Phile, so fully understand the inspiration.

 

Small trucks and vans in 1:43? Look for the range of tintin vehicles made by moulinsart. I use them straight out of the box, but for finescale you will want to add detail - the basic shapes, sizes, proportions are spot-on, but they are bereft of fine details. Be careful not to get skinned though; some seem to attract "collector" prices!

 

Kevin

[phil_sutters]

Most of the area at Rye was cleared up by the end of the 1940's, but there are still concrete defences and pillboxes along the coast. most of Rye harbour is a nature reserve nowadays.

 

 

Stephen

 

Further west at Cuckmere Haven there are still about half a dozen pillboxes around the mouth of the river and a row of concrete 'dragons' teeth. For railway enthusiasts, there is of course the listed Bishopstone station with its Art Deco pillboxes atop the building. 

[Nearholmer]

Whoa, this is turning into a tour of my favourite places!

 

I've got a mentally-banked layout-concept, which would take elements of Rye Harbour, stir-in the East Sussex Transport & Trading narrow gauge line at Cuckmere Haven, be heavily seasoned with the proposed Cuckmere Valley Light Railway, and inflict some serious industrial and ex-military dereliction on what is an AONB around Exceeat Bridge .......

 

Kevin

[bertiedog]

Things slowed a bit as I investigated the O gauge points, settled on Peco individulay parts, but I have had  to wait whilst the shops got them from Peco.

 

Solves the cost, barely more than 00 and looks the same as the RTR O gauge Peco points and track.

 

The middle of the layout can be quickly done, with a bridge across a creek, not the main river, as the line ran alongside the river apart from the Rye Road bridge start, There is no landscaping, just surfacing to model, with a shallow creek at high tide, with a girder bridge, made in wood  over it, with concrete supports. A few breakwater posts etc can be added by the water, and a small jetty and moorings.

 

It will need oil drums, water tanks and a couple of huts, still painted in wartime camouflage  which many were in the 1950's

A scattering of rubbish and perhaps a burnt out car wreck can be added, all over grown and rusting away.

It will also need phone poles and power lines. T.he drawing is only planning, the lighthouse will be to  the left end as before.

The narrow gauge could be 9mm or 16.5, based on the Camber tram service, with the line end with a sign "To the Golf Links"at a ramshackle halt in Col Stephens style.

 

After seeing the proposed y8 loco for 00 thoughts have turned to a standard gauge y8 for the line, very easy to make in 0 gauge, even the correct wheels are made by Slaters. Although if the skirts are left on plain wheels would do, with the 060 chassis.

 

 

 

 

[bertiedog]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117432-j70-tram-loco-in-7mm-0-gauge/

 

Reference to possible steam tram loco to do duty on the line as well as the 08 diesel.

 

Stephen.

[Dava]

There was a narrow gauge line [2 foot?] Along the beach towards Winchelsea, probably in connection with the breakwater construction. Also there was a 2ft line at Rye Harbour with a Simplex loco. Photos in Paol O'Callaghan's 'East Sussex Coastal Railways' vol 2 [sB Publications]

 

Dava

[Nearholmer]

Long, possibly tedious, article about all of the railways at Rye Harbour, and along to Fairlight, in the journal of the NGRS No.120 IIRC, later reproduced in Tenterden Terrier, written by yours truly in about 1985. I've promised Pete McF a copy, so I really must dig it out from the depths of the cave.

 

At the time, I really couldn't get photos of the NG, but a few have come to light since - I think I put links to the aerial photos in Pete's thread.

 

The IRS handbook for Sussex, published about three years ago, contains a basic summary and maps.

 

Kevin

[Dava]

'Long, possibly tedious, article about all of the railways at Rye Harbour, and along to Fairlight'

 

Sounds ideal for these December nights! Be interested to read it.

 

Dava

[bertiedog]

Any body remember the four wheeled tram body house on Pett Levels? I think it was an Ex LCC tram, Dick Kerr type perhaps. Parents knew the owner who rented it out in the summer. Long gone now of course.

Bit more wood work to do on the bridge section, should have it done today.

Stephen

[jcm@gwr]

Things slowed a bit as I investigated the O gauge points, settled on Peco individulay parts, but I have had  to wait whilst the shops got them from Peco.

 

Solves the cost, barely more than 00 and looks the same as the RTR O gauge Peco points and track.

 

The middle of the layout can be quickly done, with a bridge across a creek, not the main river, as the line ran alongside the river apart from the Rye Road bridge start, There is no landscaping, just surfacing to model, with a shallow creek at high tide, with a girder bridge, made in wood  over it, with concrete supports. A few breakwater posts etc can be added by the water, and a small jetty and moorings.

 

It will need oil drums, water tanks and a couple of huts, still painted in wartime camouflage  which many were in the 1950's

A scattering of rubbish and perhaps a burnt out car wreck can be added, all over grown and rusting away.

Revised Rye Sands.jpg

It will also need phone poles and power lines. T.he drawing is only planning, the lighthouse will be to  the left end as before.

The narrow gauge could be 9mm or 16.5, based on the Camber tram service, with the line end with a sign "To the Golf Links"at a ramshackle halt in Col Stephens style.

 

After seeing the proposed y8 loco for 00 thoughts have turned to a standard gauge y8 for the line, very easy to make in 0 gauge, even the correct wheels are made by Slaters. Although if the skirts are left on plain wheels would do, with the 060 chassis.

 

Check Frizinghall Models, they still do the Highfield kit for the Y8,

which is designed for the Lima motor bogie, they also still list the

Sentinel, (same running gear, I believe)

[phil_sutters]

Any body remember the four wheeled tram body house on Pett Levels? I think it was an Ex LCC tram, Dick Kerr type perhaps. Parents knew the owner who rented it out in the summer. Long gone now of course.

Bit more wood work to do on the bridge section, should have it done today.

Stephen

There is a house on The Ridge, Winchelsea Beach, which borders Pett Level, that is reportedly made from three tram bodies. I took this photo last year.

[alastairq]

Check Frizinghall Models, they still do the Highfield kit for the Y8,

which is designed for the Lima motor bogie, they also still list the

Sentinel, (same running gear, I believe)

  Just checked, sadly both 'out of stock' at present.....

[bertiedog]

And the kit mentioned has the dreaded word LIma in it......Thanks for the reference though. I have never got on with any Lima products over the years, the awful flanges etc., and low gearing ratios etc.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

There is a house on The Ridge, Winchelsea Beach, which borders Pett Level, that is reportedly made from three tram bodies. I took this photo last year.

Tram bodies house Winchelsea Beach 10 8 2015 4net.jpg

And a grounded coach in the background I see, yes, indeed, the window pattern indicate tram bodies, which seem in good condition with the protection of the roof. The main part of the house has three trams and a coach on the fourth wall. I remember see in this many moons ago looking rather the worst for wear, so must have been done up in recent years.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The Tram house is on Google Earth and Google maps, but I notice the very last plot near the end of the Ridge Road, just before the nature reserve boundary, has four strange rectangular marks on the ground that match the size of wagon frames, so may have once have had grounded wagon bodies left there.

 

There are several old British 1940's /50's films than were shot in and around Rye Harbour, like The Haunted Woman,(a pub), plus a couple of others, and "Green Grow the Rushes" which credits Camber Castle as within easy walking distance of Dymchurch!!!!........Never thought much of Camber Castle as a kid, as it was the setting for one of Edward Frederic Benson's famous, and very chilling, "Spook Stories"!

 

EF Benson was the writer of the Lucia Comedies and three times Mayor of Rye. He often mentioned the Tramway to the Golf Links in the Lucia stories. A great friend of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and between them they were credited with introducing the Norwegian Ski to the Swiss, along with the tobogganing on banked ice runs.....both fanatical sportsmen.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

One place nearby where the family nearly always had a picnic before going to the beach was the minor country road from Dumb Woman's Lane to Winchelsea, that came out near the road to Winchelsea beach, and had a rail crossing and halt, which we could see from the picnic spot, Do not know now what locos were on the Rye line in those days, but the service as pretty frequent, with goods trains as well as local passenger services. Mixed diesel and steam.

 

Spike Milligan lived at a house in Dumb Woman's Lane, a very, very narrow and twisting lane down a steep slope with high banks, and once as we started down the hill I remember joking that it would make a good place for a Fire engine to be coming in the opposite direction, ....... about twenty seconds later the Rye Fire Engine came up the hill from the Levels!!!! Dad's language was not to be repeated as he had top reverse a 1/4 mile! and then an inquest as to how I had known a fire engine was coming!!! I cannot have seen it as the road is deep in a cutting, so no known reason!!!

 

Stephen

[phil_sutters]

And a grounded coach in the background I see, yes, indeed, the window pattern indicate tram bodies, which seem in good condition with the protection of the roof. The main part of the house has three trams and a coach on the fourth wall. I remember see in this many moons ago looking rather the worst for wear, so must have been done up in recent years.

 

Stephen

This is the old coach body, next to the 'tram house'.

One of the other old coach conversions was featured on a property programme a couple of years ago and one could find the details on Zoopla or a similar site. Although externally the coach had been swallowed up by more modern extensions, they had retained the compartments, with their panelled doors and windows.