Tanker wagons at oil depot

[Jongudmund]

Basic question which may get some people's eyes rolling but if you were going to model a rail-served oil tank facility what would the loading or unloading facilities look like?

 

I'm imagining a large storage tank where the oil comes in by rail, is unloaded into the tank, stored there, then put into road tankers for onward distribution. 

 

Would one tanker wagon be unloaded at a time? Would this mean the wagons would have to be coupled to a loco and moved into position every so often?

 

All knowledge / pictures would be hugely appreciated 

[Rivercider]

The number of tanks to be discharged at one time would depend on the size of the terminal, one at a time I woiuld imagine was very unusual.

 

We had a thread listing many closed oil terminals, there are some pictures in the thread, but you can then google the others for more info.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35437-oil-terminals-no-more/page-3

 

I would think that the loco would always be uncoupled before discharge took place, and in many cases it would be removed from the terminal completely,

 

cheers

[Porcy Mane]

Era?

Oil facilities changed greatly over the years in size and Layout. Alan Copping's  book "Oil on the rails" is a good start and includes a few model pics.

 

This depot at Langley Green is referred to quite a bit on RMweb.

 

Leyland and AEC tankers at Langley Green by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

 

The storage facilities were on the other side of the road. Check it out on Old maps.

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/399651/288269/13/101329

 

P

Edited December 10, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Jongudmund]

Thanks both. Will have a look at those links.

 

In terms of era, I guess modernish is the best way home describe it.

[Mike Storey]

If "modernish" Jon, you will need to tell us whether this is for aviation fuel or basic fuel oil? Different rules applied at each.

 

If aviation, it is much more flammable and you will need to model a "berm" (a protective earth mound around the the site), high security fencing and fully gated and locked, with floodlighting. Normally (I say normally, I only ever dealt with one aviation site in my career), there would be at least two storage tanks, for different grades/mixes, and sufficient pipework to service each tank from any rail tanker. In my day (late '80's) all tankers were bogies, and a maximum of eight was possible but I am sure this varied from site to site). A loco would propel a set through the gates under the site manager's instruction (a glorified head shunter) and leave before unloading commenced. At my site, storage tanks were connected to pipework which fed the contents underground to the nearby airport as required. There were no road collections there. You will also need to model a separate staff area at least 30m from the tanks, and a storage cabin, in which cleaning and fire fighting materials and equipment were kept. A separate, barriered parking area would be needed for maintenance vehicles, and another for emergency vehicles. Everything that would be used for cleaning or fire fighting was made of wood or plastic, to avoid sparks. You would need to model lots of hi-viz paintwork for trip hazards, collision hazards and hatchwork painted on to the concrete aprons to denote areas to be left free of equipment, materials or other hazards, and loads of signs denoting same.

 

For heating or fuel oil, much less flammable, my only experience was at Canterbury West, in the early '80's, where I don't think things had changed much since the 1880's, apart from numerous, but ignored signs, and the supposed prohibition of public access, but as no-one had managed to close the yard gates since WW2, it was moot. It was served by disgustingly filthy 2-axle TTA tanks, 8 or 10 at a time, which I had to shunt once or twice when the shunter had gone AWOL or the second man did not know the routine. The cleaning tokens we were issued then did not really hack it. Road tanker collection was the only delivery method. I am not sure it conformed to any modern regulations. Not sure that would be a "modern" scenario you would want to replicate, but it would make for a wonderful scene. The main concern with such facilities, even then, but definitely now, was ground contamination (into water supplies or rivers) from spilled fuel, rather than fire or explosion. A concrete apron would be a must with stupid numbers of drain hatches into a collection sump, if you were modelling something compliant. At Canterbury, the few bits of concrete left on the ground probably contained more oil than cement by the time I worked there.....

[DaveF]

Are these any use?  I don't seem to have any close up photos.

 

 

Walkeringham GN and GE Joint government oil storage depot sidings April 69 J1612

 

 

Dalston Class 37 37025 in oil sidings 22nd April 87 C8407

 

 

Dalston 37080 oil tanks 25 Aug 92 C17911

 

 

Mallaig Junction 11th May 85 C6877

 

 

Connel Ferry oil terminal 11th Oct 86 C8074

 

 

Connel Ferry oil terminal 11th Oct 86 C8075

 

 

David

[D9020 Nimbus]

Era?

Oil facilities changed greatly over the years in size and Layout. Alan Copping's  book "Oil on the rails" is a good start and includes a few model pics.

 

This depot at Langley Green is referred to quite a bit on RMweb.

 

Leyland and AEC tankers at Langley Green by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

P

It looks to me as if oil is being transferred directly into road tankers here. Is that correct?

[Fat Controller]

It looks to me as if oil is being transferred directly into road tankers here. Is that correct?

It certainly looks like it; with the load being heavy fuel oil, they would try to avoid heating it twice. I remember seeing rail tanks of bitumen being discharded directly into road tankers at the Shell/Colas depot on Elswick Road, Newcastle, about thirty years ago. Those road tankers are remarkably clean, considering how filthy the product used to be.

[w124bob]

Back in the 80's when Glazebrook was still a busy place, I did a few trips in with 100ton tanks,usual loading was 10 with a couple of cl37's. Even then there was look of abandonment about the place, almost no infrastructure other than the ground level discharge pipes running the length of the siding with valves to short lenghts of about 9inch diameter flexible pipe for connection to the tank wagons. Absoluetly no shunters/staff cabin, but there was a chippy near by!

Edited December 11, 2016 by w124bob

[Jongudmund]

Mike, Dave and Bob, that's all really helpful. (Mike's account - the second bit - was a bit frightening really, but appreciated!)

 

The photos of Connel Ferry oil terminal are probably the closest to what I was thinking of, with the big tank in the background. I will probably have a google and see what else I can find out about it.

 

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to post information here. It's really helpful.

[Rivercider]

 

The photos of Connel Ferry oil terminal are probably the closest to what I was thinking of, with the big tank in the background. I will probably have a google and see what else I can find out about it.

 

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to post information here. It's really helpful.

Here is a view of the station from the other end, with the terminal in the background

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60566499@N03/20089637381/in/photolist-wBfDhi-e3qLou-e3qKT5-nYysai-nGndrb-L7LS3x-L7LQHi-L7LTfT-L7LQ5K-L7LSzK-M4SKBg-nGnV9e-K3R7Xz-2h8hmX-7h6tbm-wb3m5F-7cFexY-yGWpj4-znci6S-znckxf-zncjNj-wd933G-867hHj-ve93ZL-vQp2gk-vRcunm-dqWWSb-yipwCi-nYSwMH-nYys9M-oxaPhJ-oPomsc-oMCprs-fTyKZU-edAyqW-CPQFFy-hr6iMt-2fGv6m-fEmzqt-fsXPQE-oxapxa-vWcKfN-dqWN1z-fEMw4a-aoepHy-Avnncj-aocFBR-o1D3rM-vgX4Wi-nYys9X 

 

cheers

[Davexoc]

Sometimes the tanks are positioned in the unloading area and the loco is not permitted to pass a certain point. This necessitates the use of a reach wagon, this one was once used at Thame BP depot....

 

http://www.hondawanderer.com/51654_Thame_1988.htm

 

Dave

[Porcy Mane]

This necessitates the use of a reach wagon, this one was once used at Thame BP depot....

 

And the occasional use of a "Reach Rake".

 

http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/show/3772/Leaving-Phillips-Oil-terminal-at-North-Tees

 

See towards bottom of page for a description.

 

P

Edited December 13, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[newbryford]

A quick flickr search for Westerleigh gives this view from one of the storage tanks

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/weirdoldhattie/108941842/in/photolist-aCmBC-nRny9s-8UDHaW-8UDHbL-dJg5nK-dJg4YR-47ibd1-odUJGb-AoShqA-opWwFG-o8E4oD-b82iYi-nC6UqJ-cDBqi3-ebVMDN-ovbdGV-bjA6Df-dM3Kmi-o8FWTt-o8EYpZ-orVtDZ-7yYThT-g6sQS1-7NvYTt-odWFnt-odWjBk-otogD9-oxb4At-ovoVK3-o8EMkf-otosMw-odVvpM-oxb9dV-otpmvS-ov91Zv-oo6yhU-odV9cA-otp4D5-oxbLVn-otnFvE-o8EpYM-ovaQTV-odWrKb-otpA5A-ovaUCD-otq88C-oxaAjp-odULp9-otpy3E-ovcVuh

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Dungrange]

 

Dalston Class 37 37025 in oil sidings 22nd April 87 C8407.jpg

Dalston Class 37 37025 in oil sidings 22nd April 87 C8407

 

 

Dalston 37080 oil tanks 25 Aug 92 C17911.jpg

Dalston 37080 oil tanks 25 Aug 92 C17911

 

Two interesting photographs of the facilities at Dalston.  I note that it looks as though the trainload was split, with some TEAs in the gated area and the remainder still attached to the locomotive (a class 37 in both cases).  However, looking at the facilities on Google Streetview in both 2009 and 2010 show six TEA wagons parked in the gated siding, but the other siding (the one where the class 37 is sitting in the above images) is empty.

 

See https://www.google.com/maps/@54.845814,-2.9940681,3a,15y,92.41h,84.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-wej4cTRi-zXkIYNwhTq7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Has the volume of fuel oil taken to Dalston in recent years reduced or is the inbound service (which I think comes from Grangemouth) now split somewhere else in the Carlisle area and taken to the unloading point as two separate trip workings, each with six TEAs?  If it's split elsewhere, does anyone know the reason for what would appear to be a change in operating practise and also whether the non-gated siding is now used for anything else?

 

I'm assuming that the full wagons arrive from the northeast through Dalston station and then are propelled into the fuel sidings and then the empty ones are drawn out to the running line, propelled wrong line to Dalston station (the south-westbound platform) and then the locomotive runs round within the station and then leaves through the crossover at the northeast end of the station.  If this assumption is wrong, please let me know.

[Dungrange]

I've found a photograph which may at least partially answer my question above - https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/55/560/.

 

The caption states "Changing of the tankers at Petroineous Depot, Dalston Cumbria. Loaded tankers being stabled prior to moving the empties. Misty morning 14th June 2016".

 

From this it looks as though the siding that is usually empty in most photographs is used to stable six full tank wagons that have arrived from Grangemouth, while the empty wagons are  removed from the gated siding.  Presumably, the locomotive removes the empty wagons and then shunts the full ones into the siding with the empty tanks between the locomotive and the full tanks.

 

This would probably explain why most photographs I've seen seem to show wagons sitting in the gated siding: the empties are only removed when a full set are brought in.  I'm assuming that the two photographs Dave F posted above are therefore also 'changing the tankers'.  That is, they show the full ones having just arrived (hauled by the Class 37), but before the the shunt operation to remove the empties has started.

 

Unfortunately, that probably means the empty siding isn't used to stable anything else.

 

[Dave_Hooe]

Folks, some information on the Turnchapel Branch thread may also be useful perhaps. On one side, Turnchapel Station was situated next to an Admiralty oil fuel depot with six 6000 ton storage tanks dating to the early days of oil fuel use by the navy. In 1939 Air Ministry sidings were added and three 1,000,000 gallon buried 'C2 tanks' were sited on the other side of the station.

 

Figure 23 (courtesy of the National Railway Museum) on page 2 of the Turnchapel Branch thread shows the Air Ministry sidings with gantries:

 

 

Figure 69 on page 4 of the Turnchapel Branch thread illustrates the structure of the 6000 ton oil fuel storage tanks in the Admiralty compound. There are some additional reference photos of these tanks on that page. A general plan showing the railway in relation to the Air Ministry and Admiralty facilities can be found in Figure 1.

 

Cheers, Dave

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Dave_Hooe

[Leon]

I started a thread on Inver in Cardiff Docks, Im sure i put up a load of pictures of the tank farm if you search it...Prototype Discussions I think....