Platform 1 and 3/4?

[pheaton]

All,

 

Suppose the following platform layout....

 

 

 

 

In the real world (should such a configuration exist the only one I know of is Swindon....) how would the bay platforms be numbered?

 

and on which side would the doors be opened in (in an automatic door scenario) for passengers to board or offload? Would it be on the left as the train enters the bay, or on the left as the train leaves the bay?

 

Need to know so I can get my platforms right

 

Thanks

 

Simon

Edited December 20, 2016 by pheaton

[Dungrange]

Well, there are bay platforms at both ends of Edinburgh Waverley station and the platform numbering is undertaken in a clockwise direction starting at the northeast corner of the station.  However, since each of the through roads are long enough to accommodate two trains, they each have two platform numbers: one of the east half and a second for the west end.  I assume that isn't what you have here.  As for which doors are opened when you have a single track bay platform, I'd have thought that would have been dependent on where the station exit is and which platform is wider.

[Talltim]

Have a look at Sheffield. It has two single sided bays at the north end, numbered 3 and 4 (each divided into a and b sections to hold two trains), logically between platforms 2 and 5. However it has two double sided bays at the south end, the one between platforms 2 and 5 is numbered 2c (because platform 2 is split into 2a and 2b) and the other bay is platform 7, between 6 and 8.

The doors on the west side of the train are always used on platform 4c as the platform is wider and there is a shelter that side too.

On platform 7 it used to be the case that the doors on the west side were the ones used too (although I can remember doors opening on both sides when they wanted a quick turnaround), however since they started putting 5 coach Meridiens in it they use the doors on the east side as the platform is slightly longer.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations-and-destinations/stations-made-easy/sheffield-station-plan

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3767577,-1.4619039,137m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Basically, anything goes. Was your hypothetical station all built at the same time?

[Miss Prism]

Reading has such an arrangement (platforms 5, 6, 7, 8, at least that's what they used to be when I knew it, on the 'middle aisle'). Numbering of platforms tends to be inherited, and it's only in modern-ish times that some stations have found it convenient to resort to platforms '1a', '1b', etc. Leeds, I think is an example. Places that used to have scissors crossovers in the middle of long platforms, Cambridge, Oxford etc, need legitimate ways of distinguishing where passengers need to go. Horses for courses, I guess.

 

Modern corporate thinking can be very silly though - the original proposals for the redevelopment of Stratford was to number the new platforms as 10a, 10b, 10c, 10d and 10e or something like that. A couple of well-timed comments to the Department of Transport soon put a stop to such absurd thinking.

[Miss Prism]

LT always open doors on both sides where there are platform faces on both sides.

[stewartingram]

Sensible trains have had doors that the passengers could open. Finsbury Park station was designed so that punters could use stationary trains as a shorter walkway to another platform, instead of going down the stairs and up the other side.

 

Stewart

[mcowgill]

Reading has such an arrangement (platforms 5, 6, 7, 8, at least that's what they used to be when I knew it, on the 'middle aisle'). Numbering of platforms tends to be inherited, and it's only in modern-ish times that some stations have found it convenient to resort to platforms '1a', '1b', etc. Leeds, I think is an example. Places that used to have scissors crossovers in the middle of long platforms, Cambridge, Oxford etc, need legitimate ways of distinguishing where passengers need to go. Horses for courses, I guess.

 

Modern corporate thinking can be very silly though - the original proposals for the redevelopment of Stratford was to number the new platforms as 10a, 10b, 10c, 10d and 10e or something like that. A couple of well-timed comments to the Department of Transport soon put a stop to such absurd thinking.

Being brought up travelling when platforms had proper numbers I missed a train at Stratford a few weeks ago, assuming that 10a was one end of 10, so running I headed up the steps to 10a just as my train ran into 10...  :-(

[Pete the Elaner]

LT always open doors on both sides where there are platform faces on both sides.

The original Wood Lane station on the Central Line was opened with 2 platforms on 1 line; 1 for alighting & the other for boarding. That was closed many years ago (in the 1940s I think).

 

Platform 17 in Euston has faces on both sides of the track. I think it may have had something to do with it being the old Motorail platform. I seem to remember only once seeing a train open its doors on the side facing platform 16. Platform 18 (west) is the usual side for operation.

[DCB]

Waverley had weird numbering with 1 gap 7 etc clockwise up to 19 with 20 and 21 opposite 10 and 11.

 

Reading had two single track bays inset into an island in the 1990s with the main faces 5 and 8 and the bays 6 and 7

 

Swindon was not like the example above, the bay was No 2 with 1 and 3 the main faces.  but there was previously a double track bay somewhere where the present bay is but the platform was lengthened and altered and the tracks now serve only one platform face.   There are remains of the bay at the other end of the island but about 3 coaches or 200 feet of station buildings between them.

Swindon's 

 

The short single track bay set into the end an Island platform is more of a model railway feature than a full size feature.  The bays of pre group times tended to be quite long but before the push pull train circa 1900 they were a nuisance as trains had to be pulled back with a pilot loco.

 

They made more sense with DMUs which could simply reverse and allowed arrivals and departures without fouling the other track but in my experience these were usually double track bays often with run round facilities.

 

In steam days with mechanical signalling it made far more sense to terminate a passenger train in a through platform, it could run in faster, stop a few coach lengths beyond the platform if necessary without killing anyone, and then carry on to carriage sidings.  The Bay is more use for a train awaiting departure, people like to get settled a few minutes before departure time, they seldom sit around after arrival unless totally *******

but a bay set into an Island platform is awkward to get to as you have to go either under or over a bridge to get to it.

 

The GWR had a few through stations with one track between two through platform faces, probably Yeovil was the weirdest, both Pen Mill and Town but at the end of the day its your layout and no matter how weird you make it there is bound to be some prototype even weirder.

 

There used to be a row of three houses near me, numbered 1 2 and 3, number 1 was the middle one.   Now that is weird.

[cheesysmith]

Sheffield (MR) used to have platform 8 as two platforms, with a second loop line at the north end. This is why it has a kinked shape halfway along it. Platform 2c was originally just a bay where the signal box (south) was, and was used for stabling locos or stock. It only became a platform when the DMUs were introduced. IIRC it was numbered 2c to not have to alter all the other platforms numbers.

 

PS-I have seen it done when they were first introduced, with a sprinter stood on platform 2c with doors on both sides open at once.

[Miss Prism]

Swansea High Street can sometimes have 3 local trains on the same platform (1).

 

The locals seem to know which one is going where.

[96701]

Sensible trains have had doors that the passengers could open. Finsbury Park station was designed so that punters could use stationary trains as a shorter walkway to another platform, instead of going down the stairs and up the other side.

 

Stewart

That worked up to a point. My former boss was travelling from York to Hornsey. This involved going to King's Cross, train to Finsbury Park and then another train to Hornsey. He positioned himself on the train from the Cross so that he would be by the stairs at Finsbury Park knowing that it was a tight connection. The train drew in, he opened the door of the non-corridor stock, legged it down the stairs, under the subway, up the stairs and onto the waiting train. Some of you reading this might be ahead of things here, he got sat down, the train set off, he looked around and noticed that he'd got back into the same compartment as he'd just left, first stop Hitchin. At least there was nobody else in the compartment to watch his stunt!

[Rivercider]

At one time there was a doubled sided bay platform at the west end of Cardiff General, I don't know the number though

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/16178790298/in/photolist-qDEwGj-8rhs9A-nEhbqa-jfiWbM-q1M9i8-6aBBUw-fLAwvV-ojGPAf-b3BkhH-dFHCQc-f9xamm-HVvv3i-ndcm3w-ojP8MW-H4Rctt-o7msP8-8rekkz-o7KYbQ-e9s3iR-rpqcuL-m8w64v-JzPaoh-qoDCQ4-q3v8NB-rpufXm-dqCTTj-gqQVCK-aUn1VP-7a28t8-osagSC-j3PqxS-bc8hte-dBkiJt-e4ZHYR-jjU2mg-hYfvHa-fwwVEA-nVtckG-o1fKj4-ndbZxn-pKEE4c-8reipP-busMsL-p514SN-oktah2-4wNoc7-dq28Ld-dUyjE2-bkoUmf-rFWLRd

 

 

There was  (still is) a double sided bay at the west end of Taunton, which is occasionally used for stabling locos etc, 

in recent years it has been renumbered and is now numbered platform 1 I believe, but is not available for passenger use

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lillian1000/7510004796/in/photolist-oXdb7M-pBzef4-PTEr5g-NPSN1Z-8kawig-hVxHKm-8kdHYd-9WuXn3-crCJMj-w9JPbz-DPxhrU-PcLeRD-PcLerk-safDDu-gzWzqB-eD1h44-eD7nuq

 

cheers

[The White Rabbit]

There's http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/chestrheref.htm for Chester and the same web-site's got http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/creweshrew.htm for Crewe. Both plans show the numbering of the station platforms. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by The White Rabbit

[GordonC]

Waverley had weird numbering with 1 gap 7 etc clockwise up to 19 with 20 and 21 opposite 10 and 11.

 

Reading had two single track bays inset into an island in the 1990s with the main faces 5 and 8 and the bays 6 and 7

 

Swindon was not like the example above, the bay was No 2 with 1 and 3 the main faces.  but there was previously a double track bay somewhere where the present bay is but the platform was lengthened and altered and the tracks now serve only one platform face.   There are remains of the bay at the other end of the island but about 3 coaches or 200 feet of station buildings between them.

Swindon's 

 

The short single track bay set into the end an Island platform is more of a model railway feature than a full size feature.  The bays of pre group times tended to be quite long but before the push pull train circa 1900 they were a nuisance as trains had to be pulled back with a pilot loco.

 

They made more sense with DMUs which could simply reverse and allowed arrivals and departures without fouling the other track but in my experience these were usually double track bays often with run round facilities.

 

In steam days with mechanical signalling it made far more sense to terminate a passenger train in a through platform, it could run in faster, stop a few coach lengths beyond the platform if necessary without killing anyone, and then carry on to carriage sidings.  The Bay is more use for a train awaiting departure, people like to get settled a few minutes before departure time, they seldom sit around after arrival unless totally *******

but a bay set into an Island platform is awkward to get to as you have to go either under or over a bridge to get to it.

 

The GWR had a few through stations with one track between two through platform faces, probably Yeovil was the weirdest, both Pen Mill and Town but at the end of the day its your layout and no matter how weird you make it there is bound to be some prototype even weirder.

 

There used to be a row of three houses near me, numbered 1 2 and 3, number 1 was the middle one.   Now that is weird.

 

There wasn't gaps in the platform numbering at Waverley in the past, there had been more platforms there that were filled in so only the remaining ones were left with numbers.

[talisman56]

Guildford has a double-sided platform line, serving platforms 6/7. Very useful for connecting services on the other side of the islands. In slam door times, you could use either side of a train to exit - does the guard release both sets of doors nowadays?

 

Lewes had a double-face line on the Brighton side - long-gone before I can remember, but was still in situ with a little wooden footbridge over the chasm where the running line was. I believe it was filled in and 'made good' a few years ago.

 

In a road near us, there is a house no. 17 between 14 and 16 on the even side of the road...

Edited December 21, 2016 by talisman56

[phil-b259]

There wasn't gaps in the platform numbering at Waverley in the past, there had been more platforms there that were filled in so only the remaining ones were left with numbers.

 

Waverly had its platform numbers re done around a decade or so ago - but passive provision was made for the loco stabling sidings at the east end to be turned into proper bay platforms if the need arises.

[John M Upton]

Norwood Junction has a single track double platform numbers 1 and 2 on the up slow.  The doors of the trains calling there only open on the platform 1 side unless there is some kind of fault.  Opening both sides is not allowed as it is impossible for dispatch staff and the driver to see both sides at the same time and modern stock DOO cameras will only show one side at a time.

[talisman56]

Norwood Junction has a single track double platform numbers 1 and 2 on the up slow. The doors of the trains calling there only open on the platform 1 side unless there is some kind of fault. Opening both sides is not allowed as it is impossible for dispatch staff and the driver to see both sides at the same time and modern stock DOO cameras will only show one side at a time.

I used Norwood Junction regularly, going to see a Football League team near there. It was several months before I realised that another platform also served that line...

[Nick Holliday]

Morden station at the end of the Northern Line has a number of platforms, although only single lines between them. Each platform face has a different number, and where they can, both sets of doors are opened.

[Danemouth]

At one time there was a doubled sided bay platform at the west end of Cardiff General, I don't know the number though

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/16178790298/in/photolist-qDEwGj-8rhs9A-nEhbqa-jfiWbM-q1M9i8-6aBBUw-fLAwvV-ojGPAf-b3BkhH-dFHCQc-f9xamm-HVvv3i-ndcm3w-ojP8MW-H4Rctt-o7msP8-8rekkz-o7KYbQ-e9s3iR-rpqcuL-m8w64v-JzPaoh-qoDCQ4-q3v8NB-rpufXm-dqCTTj-gqQVCK-aUn1VP-7a28t8-osagSC-j3PqxS-bc8hte-dBkiJt-e4ZHYR-jjU2mg-hYfvHa-fwwVEA-nVtckG-o1fKj4-ndbZxn-pKEE4c-8reipP-busMsL-p514SN-oktah2-4wNoc7-dq28Ld-dUyjE2-bkoUmf-rFWLRd

 

 

If memory serves me correctly it was Platform 5 but I may well be wrong!

 

Dave

[corneliuslundie]

I don't use Cardiff Central General often but I think the number of the former bay platform at the west end is still missing, and there is now a platform 0. There is also to be an extra platform beyond platform 7 but I have not heard it suggested that there will be any renumbering. Of course at one time dead end Platforms 8 and 9 existed anyway.

I have read somewhere that it is difficult to change the numbers of platforms these days because they are embedded so firmly in the railway's computer systems. That makes sense though it may be fiction. But it would explain recent additions of Platform 0 at a number of stations and the gaps in numbering where platforms have been removed.

The City of Celle in Germany has all the houses numbered in the order they were built - and it is a very old town. I'm not sure how the postman copes.

Jonathan

[The Stationmaster]

I don't use Cardiff Central General often but I think the number of the former bay platform at the west end is still missing, and there is now a platform 0. There is also to be an extra platform beyond platform 7 but I have not heard it suggested that there will be any renumbering. Of course at one time dead end Platforms 8 and 9 existed anyway.

I have read somewhere that it is difficult to change the numbers of platforms these days because they are embedded so firmly in the railway's computer systems. That makes sense though it may be fiction. But it would explain recent additions of Platform 0 at a number of stations and the gaps in numbering where platforms have been removed.

The City of Celle in Germany has all the houses numbered in the order they were built - and it is a very old town. I'm not sure how the postman copes.

Jonathan

 

Not so much difficult to change platform numbers because they are firmly embedded but potentially a considerable number of systems and documentation needing to be changed - more a b*ggeration factor rather than any sort of software difficulty.

[Fat Controller]

I don't use Cardiff Central General often but I think the number of the former bay platform at the west end is still missing, and there is now a platform 0. There is also to be an extra platform beyond platform 7 but I have not heard it suggested that there will be any renumbering. Of course at one time dead end Platforms 8 and 9 existed anyway.

I have read somewhere that it is difficult to change the numbers of platforms these days because they are embedded so firmly in the railway's computer systems. That makes sense though it may be fiction. But it would explain recent additions of Platform 0 at a number of stations and the gaps in numbering where platforms have been removed.

The City of Celle in Germany has all the houses numbered in the order they were built - and it is a very old town. I'm not sure how the postman copes.

Jonathan

Changing the platform number does involve a lot of work to be done on the interlockings, and is not to be undertaken lightly. I remember the work involved when Eurotunnel put in a pair of tracks at both terminals, and that was a situation where passive provision had been made during the original construction.

Celle is not unusual with having an esoteric numbering system; Venice has a seemingly random 'system', complicated by having separate series for domestic properties and commercial ones. To 'simplify' things, the numbers are in different colours, which isn't much help on foggy nights.

[caradoc]

The platform numbers at Oxford were changed within the last year; Up main line from 1 to 3 and Down main line from 2 to 4, this so that the north end bays could be 1 and 2. I have no idea why the bays could not be 3 (as already existing) and 4 (new one for Chiltern trains), leaving the through platforms unchanged from the day they were built. Presumably someone thinks passengers are too stupid to find platforms unless they are numbered consecutively.