Slaters 7033 Dia 61 LNER Brake Van

[brossard]

I'm in the process of building subject kit but I'm confused about whether or not I should fit vacuum brake gear.  The instructions don't talk about it but vacuum stand pipes are included.  I know a lot of brake vans were through piped.  Geoff Kent in his 4mm Wagons, in the section on LNER brakes, says that these vans were vacuum fitted from new.

 

Could someone de confuse me on this point?  If vacuum fitment is valid, does someone have a drawing or photo?

 

I did search and found a couple of threads, but they peter out.

 

Thanks

 

John

[Marshall5]

I'm not sure about the LNER version but the B.R. ones derived from it were mostly through piped with a few handbraked only. None had full vac brake equipment AFAIK.

Ray.

[brossard]

Thanks Ray, in the dim recesses of my mind, ISTR reading the same thing about BR vans.  Certainly all the pictures I've found of Dia 61 vans in later years don't seem to show any sign of brake cylinder.  My speculation is that BR philosophy was that since the vans were always manned anyway, AVB for the van was redundant and was excess cost and complexity.  Love to hear what others think/know.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

LNER Wagons, An Illustrated Overview, by Peter Tatlow. (Pendragon, 1998) pp.168/9

 

Drawing (apparently a copy of the official diagram) and photos of Dia. 61 Toad D vans 178705, 260922, 278704 all show vacuum cylinders in place. Also one of 235109 on the front cover. The text states that sanding gear was fitted to early examples but later removed.

 

From pp.99/100 of British Railways Wagons, The First Half Million, by Don Rowland (David & Charles, 1985): 

 

"...together with some 290 brake vans of LNER design lot 2051. These latter were the only ones among the early orders to receive automatic vacuum brake. They were to Diagram 500. The 1950 and 1951 programmes perpetuated the LNER design, except that in keeping with LMS policy, only brake pipe, valve and gauge were fitted. Diagram 504 was allotted for this variant and 550 examples were built together with a later 400 as part of the 1955 programme." 

 

John

[Guest Q663368]

PM me with your e-mail address and I will send you an Excel spreadsheet which I have produced which will tell you everything you want to know regarding these brake van details plus the other diagrams.

 

Alan

[brossard]

Thanks for those quotes John.  I neglected to mention that my example is BR and in the 1960 ish timeframe.  These bear out that BR tended to build through piped vehicles.  So, if these had AVB when built by LNER, did they keep the equipment in BR service?  Alan's spreadsheet may well answer that.

 

Thanks all

 

John

[brossard]

Having received some excellent information. I have changed the doors from 4 pane to solid.  I'd like to reinstate the door handles, can someone tell me/show me what these looked like?

 

I have made vee hangers from brass strip and washers as well as brake rod actuator levers.  I have a spare vac. cylinder from a Parkside kit.

 

I will post pictures but the state of things are a bit rough at the moment.

 

Thanks

 

John

[brossard]

OK, so here a couple of pictures as promised.  Credit to contributors, esp. Q663368 (Alan) for guiding me in the right direction.  Errors that I have made are my fault.

 

 

 

The upper arms that connect to the outer end are very fragile - they are safe in the box.

As is my wont, the axleboxes are sprung.

The doors are supplied as 4 panes but indications are that most of these vans had solid planked doors - you can just see my replacement in 0.020" plastic card.  This was scribed to represent planks.

I started by removing the moulded trusses under the solebars, fitted vans don't appear to have had these. 

I then made some vee hangers from brass strip and washers.  I also made the the actuator arms from strip brass and a bit of wire.

The vacuum cylinder is a Parkside spare.  The tee lifter is brass wire soldered together.  I soldered/glued a piece of wire for the vac. pipe connection.

I added a vacuum pipe which is the angled wire.

The cross rod is 2mm plastic.

The kit includes some very nice brass etches for the brake hangers above the axles.  There is also an etch representing the brake actuation mechanism, the end of which aligns with a hole in the floor where the manual brake screw comes out.  (I have an interior brake standard).  I added a lever adjacent to the manual lever that I connected to the vac. brake lever.  This is bit terra incognita but I reckon that there was likely to be a clutch arrangement to permit automatic and manual braking.  I added some plastic vee brackets to support the brake lever fulcrum.

Finally I added the connections to the brake hangers under the axles.

 

BTW, the white blocks near the ends are for the safety loops - I don't see these modelled very often.

 

Comments welcome.

 

I'll throw some black paint on next.

 

John

[giz]

BR did build vacuum braked standard brake vans, there is one at least at the Chasewater Railway.

 

I started a thread about it way back in 2010:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19211-vacuum-braked-br-std-brake-vans/

 

Although all the revenue vans in the TOPs era were unfitted or piped (I've never come across a CAV), there were plenty in departmental service coded ZTV.

[Guest Q663368]

This is coming on nicely. You will like the sprung suspension, the ride of the van is much improved IMHO. A little extra weight will help too.

[brossard]

Interesting thread Giz, a complicated subject indeed.  I don't think I'm too far off the mark.  Some vans had split spoke wheels but as I don't have any I stayed with disc.

 

Thanks Alan, I've had a policy from the beginning to spring my kit built wagons.  I have used both Bill Bedford and Slaters methods.  My opinion is that Slaters is better although both work.

 

John

[brossard]

I think I've finished the Toad D.  The only thing left is weathering.

First, the interior:

 

 

Not the tidiest of jobs, but the goal is to give a representation of the inside not a museum exhibit.  Brake standard is Slaters and you can see the stovepipe.  There's a bench seat made from Evergreen.  Upper walls are white and the lower is painted Wisconsin Central Maroon (I like the colour).

 

 

The other view.  There is a bench seat on this side as well but a separating wall for the stove alcove.

 

A view of the underneath, might be useful to others building in other scales.

 

 

Being black, the details aren't easy to see, but it is essentially the same as the views above.  Note the safety loops around the brake yokes.  I've mentioned this before, not only don't kit makers include the parts but they completely ignore them and don't even mention them in the instructions...strange.

 

Finally the van itself:

 

 

Looking pretty smart I think in ex works condition.  Handrails are 0.45mm NS wire.  I carefully fitted these to their location.  The tee rail is made by butt soldering wire.  I used a plastic spacer which didn't show any melting at all.  The result of obeying a cardinal rule of soldering: get in and get out quick sharp.

The shaped wire was then chemically blackened and fitted.  The rails were secured with CA.  After that I brush painted them white.

I used the same process for the corner lamp brackets.

As usual, the coupling is screw link from Dapol.

The model is based on a picture of E19244.

To finish, I sprayed the van all over with gloss varnish.  The helps to seat the transfers.  Transfers were applied using microset.  When hard another coat of varnish  to seal.  I won't bore you with the booboos and other slipups.

Yes, I know, the bottom step is crooked - didn't notice that until I saw the photo -

John
 

[brossard]

I weathered the van:

 

 

Started with light coats of airbrushed dirt and black.  I then highlighted streaks with black powder.  I have a tendency to overdo things and tried to restrain myself here.

 

Running gear and solebars were powdered with rust, then black.

 

Note the standpipe is now red.

 

John