GordonC Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Looking at many of the Hornby Pullman coaches, what is described as a Kitchen car seems to have a very small food preparation area. I'm not talking of the coaches like the Hadrian Bar which was a full half-coach. What food did they actually serve from there? Was it food or only drinks? Being a 'Pullman' service I would have expected the best facilities on the railway, but it looks like a tight squeeze with that much space! Did the formations normally have one kitchen car serviing both it and a neighbouring parlour car? Thanks, Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 IIRC a kitchen was paired with a parlour and therefore served both. The likes of Hadrian Bar were just that - a bar counter Theres a mine of Pullman info here - http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/ - one of which might give you more gen Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2017 Looking at many of the Hornby Pullman coaches, what is described as a Kitchen car seems to have a very small food preparation area. I'm not talking of the coaches like the Hadrian Bar which was a full half-coach. What food did they actually serve from there? Was it food or only drinks? Being a 'Pullman' service I would have expected the best facilities on the railway, but it looks like a tight squeeze with that much space! Did the formations normally have one kitchen car serviing both it and a neighbouring parlour car? Thanks, Gordon Yup thats about the size of it. This website has reams of Pullman information and I'm sure several of the PDFs cintain formation information within their pages. The Brighton Belle EMUs had two kitchen cars per 5 car rake - and due to the short distances wouldn't have needed to serve the same quantity of food as, say, the 'Queen of Scots' or the 'Bournemouth Belle' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Looking at many of the Hornby Pullman coaches, what is described as a Kitchen car seems to have a very small food preparation area. I'm not talking of the coaches like the Hadrian Bar which was a full half-coach. What food did they actually serve from there? Was it food or only drinks? Being a 'Pullman' service I would have expected the best facilities on the railway, but it looks like a tight squeeze with that much space! Did the formations normally have one kitchen car serviing both it and a neighbouring parlour car? Thanks, Gordon To quote one example from Antony Ford's Pullman books: "A fully fitted kitchen comprising gas-heated stove, hot plates, sinks with hot and cold water supply, chopping block, ample cupboard space for china and linen, racks for plates, galvanised hooks for saucepans, a griller and also an ice cream freezer." Full meals were served which had several courses. One kitchen car serving it and a neighbouring parlour car does seem to be a common formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 There's a rather fun little book called "Favourite Dining Car Recipes" which recreates some of the dishes served by various railway dining cars, and which includes three sample Pullman meal offers: the first is the Metropolitan Railway "Stockbroker Breakfast" which was Porridge, a mixed grill of lamb chop, kidneys, bacon and tomato, and cocoa (!), the second is the famous Brighton Belle grilled kippers, which was served on toast with scrambled eggs and grilled tomatoes, and the third is the "Yorkshire Pullman" afternoon tea of assorted "dainty" sandwiches filled with diverse fillings such as cucumber, cheese, ham, egg etc., scones and rich fruit cake. Apart from the afternoon tea the other menu items all included some sort of on board cooking. The Metropolitan breakfast is typically Edwardian, and it makes you wonder just how the UK managed to be an industrial superpower if they went to work having eaten all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2017 The Metropolitan breakfast is typically Edwardian, and it makes you wonder just how the UK managed to be an industrial superpower if they went to work having eaten all that. Because the persons consuming such breakfasts were rarely the ones actually doing the work (toiling in factories etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Because the persons consuming such breakfasts were rarely the ones actually doing the work (toiling in factories etc) I was thinking how they could stay awake long enough to get any business. The workers would never have had such a lavish breakfast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 IIRC the parlour/ kitchen firsts only had 1+1 seating, the thirds had 2+1? So not a lot of covers per kitchen, but as shown above, a very intensive menu with at-seat waiter service. By comparison, when introduced, the Mk1 RK needed to provide 2 sittings to an RTO and RFO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 There's a rather fun little book called "Favourite Dining Car Recipes" which recreates some of the dishes served by various railway dining cars Does it include Brown Windsor Soup? Supposedly it was a staple of railway catering, but this http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/brownwindsorsoup.htm throws some interesting light on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePipersSon Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 If you look at Kevin Robertson's book on the Blue Pullman, the Menu was :- Scotch Smoked Salmon with lemon wedges Chilled Fruit Juices - Pineapple:Tomato:Orange Creme Argenteuil with Golden Croutons From the Grill :- English Lamb Cutlets Scotch Salmon Fillet Steak Barbecued Chicken a l'Americaine All the above with Potatoes,Sweet Corn,Baby Carrots and Broccoli Mornay Cold Buffet:- Salmon Mayonnaise Half a Chicken with dressed salads And then :- Fresh Fruit salad with dairy cream ice Creme Chantilly Cheese tray Coffee Bread and butter extra. This is from the WR operation in 1960 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Does it include Brown Windsor Soup? Supposedly it was a staple of railway catering, but this http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/brownwindsorsoup.htm throws some interesting light on it. Funnily enough no, although it does have an interesting "on-trend" carrot, coriander and red lentil soup from the Cornish Riviera menu of the 1930s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 The series "Further Back In Time for Dinner" is charting what a middle class family would have eaten decade by decade, and is currently showing on BBC2. The first episode was the Edwardian week. The participants commented on the meat heavy fare. In contrast the Suffragettes combined wanting the vote for women with Vegetarianism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 If you think about it most of the space in large modern kitchens is filled with electrical gadgets that are rarely used. These railway kitchen staff were highly skilled and highly organised, often from a military background, working in necessarily very small spaces with basic equipment. I remember when we bought our first small house, which had a tiny and extremely basic old-fashioned kitchen, more of a scullery really. Newly married, we held a house-warming for all the relatives on both sides - around 40. Fortunately the house had a good-sized garden. One of them had worked the restaurant cars on the LMS expresses in the late 1940s and volunteered to do the catering. To our total astonishment in just a couple of hours while guests were arriving he produced an amazing full three-course cooked lunch from scratch for the whole party from that tiny space and it was like a new pin again before we had finished eating (no microwave, freezer, pre-prepared food of any kind and no dishwasher). Dread to think what he would have said about the faffing around on Bake Off. These guys were Good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2017 Brighton Belle menu 1963 http://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/page_id__9522.aspx Beans on Toast anyone ? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2017 Back just after the electrification in 1966 the normal trains had a Buffet Restaurant Car. This did counter service for about 24 Second Class and the kitchen which took up about 1/3 of the coach did meals for the adjacent FO and sometimes more. The kitchen staff also did at-seat tea and coffee service on a lot of trains after completing the First Class meal service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Thanks for all the answers folks, its really impressive they were able to cook such an impressive menu, even for a limited number of diners, from such a self-contained space Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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