Hatton's DJM 14xx DCC

[Mogul]

I have just fitted Gaugemaster DCC23 6 pin chips to two locomotives, a Heljan 1366 and a Hatton's DJM 14xx. The 1366 runs like a dream but the 14xx is very jerky at low speed and when setting off, it ran fine on DC while running in. The default acceleration and deceleration on the DCC23 is 0 but I've changed it to 4 which worked for the 1366. Has anyone else fitted DCC to a 14xx, have you had to change the CV's?

[tender]

The Heljan 1366 has a normal 3/5 pole motor and will give good result with the default setting of a reasonable decoder, whereas the 14xx has a coreless motor so some decoders will need a significant tweak to get good slow running. I had the same problem with the kernow O2 from the same DJM stable as the 14xx that I fitted with a Zimo decoder. I expect the same when my 1474 arrives but at least I now know what to do with a Zimo decoder to get good results with a coreless motor.

Sorry im not familiar with Gaugemaster decoders.

[john dew]

That's useful info.......I will be fitting Lenz to mine.......any hints on settings would be great

[bigal10]

C'mon Tender, don't be a meany, let us all know what tweeks you applied to your Zimo (presume MX649N) decoder to get the DJM 14xx to behave at slow speeds !

 

I have a DJM J94 which also refuses to run from startup, and which I am about to either throw against the wall, or fit some kind of capacitor to, so would be interested in any suggested CV mods first!

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

[Izzy]

I have just fitted Gaugemaster DCC23 6 pin chips to two locomotives, a Heljan 1366 and a Hatton's DJM 14xx. The 1366 runs like a dream but the 14xx is very jerky at low speed and when setting off, it ran fine on DC while running in. The default acceleration and deceleration on the DCC23 is 0 but I've changed it to 4 which worked for the 1366. Has anyone else fitted DCC to a 14xx, have you had to change the CV's?

 

Coreless motors don't really like high levels of BEMF and the tiny ones now being used in some 4mm locos - I use the same size in 2mm locos - are no different in this respect to larger ones. Whatever make/type of decoder used the basic rule is to reduce the BEMF and adjust the settings associated with this, the motor control parameters. This varies depending on the decoder make and what is provided by way of control and adjustment.

 

The Gaugemaster DCC23 6-pin is I believe made by Digitrax and the same as their DZ125/126. The decoder manual is here and page 47 section 8.5 deals with the settings and the CV's, they call it scaleable speed stabilization. The actual CV's are 55,56,57:   http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/Decoder_Manual_V2-01_2014.pdf

 

I hope you can understand it better than I can. Not very easy. I have to admit I don't like these decoders, the motor control they produce, or the general lack of adjustment with it or other aspects, lighting etc, and either use CT or Zimo which are just as cheap these days.

 

Izzy

[Mike Riley]

C'mon Tender, don't be a meany, let us all know what tweeks you applied to your Zimo (presume MX649N) decoder to get the DJM 14xx to behave at slow speeds !

 

I have a DJM J94 which also refuses to run from startup, and which I am about to either throw against the wall, or fit some kind of capacitor to, so would be interested in any suggested CV mods first!

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

 

The Zimo decoder manual is quite clear on what settings to use for coreless motors, large and small.

[tender]

C'mon Tender, don't be a meany, let us all know what tweeks you applied to your Zimo (presume MX649N) decoder to get the DJM 14xx to behave at slow speeds !

 

I have a DJM J94 which also refuses to run from startup, and which I am about to either throw against the wall, or fit some kind of capacitor to, so would be interested in any suggested CV mods first!

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

sorry for lack of reply, away from layout till Tuesday. Will post CV settings I use when I get back, strangely the're not as you might expect from reading the manual. Edited February 5, 2017 by tender

[sjrixon]

Sorry to drag up an old thread.. But I've just installed a Zimo MX621 in a Hattons 48xx and I'm seeing the same, very jerky at low speed. Could anyone share some nice settings please?

 

Cheers

[jwd]

From an old post for ideal 14xx settings (settings recommended from Hattons themselves), for zimo decoder

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126760-dj-models-class-14xx-dcc-settings-that-will-stop-poor-running/

 

CV5 TO 255

CV6 TO 128

CV49 TO 17

CV51 TO 0

CV52 TO 0

CV53 TO 140

CV54 TO 40

CV55 TO 28

CV56 TO 255

CV124 TO 4

 

 

CV124=4  sets F7 to half speed shunting.

Edited December 24, 2017 by jwd

[The Fatadder]

Great stuff

My 1470 is the first loco earmarked for a decoder in 2018 so I will keep this thread handy

 

I’ve never really done any cv tweeting before (other than resets and number changes) so this will be a first

[Nigelcliffe]

From an old post for ideal 14xx settings (settings recommended from Hattons themselves), for zimo decoder

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126760-dj-models-class-14xx-dcc-settings-that-will-stop-poor-running/

 

CV5 TO 255

CV6 TO 128

CV49 TO 17

CV51 TO 0

CV52 TO 0

CV53 TO 140

CV54 TO 40

CV55 TO 28

CV56 TO 255

CV124 TO 4

 

 

CV124=4  sets F7 to half speed shunting.

 

I question the logic of most of those on a Zimo decoder. 

 

CV5, 6,   Those are OK, they are normal speed range, standard over most decoders.

 

CV49 through 55 are all to do with HLU speed devices, which are automated speed controls.  Unless you have HLU devices on your layout, they are irrelevant (HLU is a Zimo feature, requiring additional layout hardware, I doubt they sell many units in the UK).   

However, were it an ESU decoder instead, then most of those CV's are to do with motor control parameters.  So, my guess someone has muddled up Zimo and ESU.

 

CV56 is a motor regulation CV, one of several.  A value of 255 is outside the range quoted in Zimo's manuals.  CV56 treats the hundreds differently to the other digits, so "55" is middle of range.  The "200" is outside documented features, might work well, might not.  Its usually changed in conjunction with CV9 and CV58.    But the value might be sensible for an ESU decoder. 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[w124bob]

I managed to fry both decoder and motor in my first 14xx, Decoder was a Lenz which I struggled with in terms of CV settings, I just couldn't get the loco to run smoothly(ran in on dc no decoder fitted). Unfortunatley I left the loco on the track whilst I tidied the work bench( thats a first)switched everything off etc. Next day nothing, no response, decoder fitted to another loco zilch, blanking plug in the 14xx b****r all. And you can't get to the mech simply either, as I'd weathered it there was no point in going back to Hattons. Threw my dummy and the loco well out of the pram that day . Anyway second 14xx is dc only at present(what you bought another!) which runs beautifully on dc and I couldn't resist weathering this one either.

[sjrixon]

I'd question the settings to, but it's found the other thread and blindly put them in and it worked!

[jwd]

From an old post for ideal 14xx settings (settings recommended from Hattons themselves), for zimo decoder

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126760-dj-models-class-14xx-dcc-settings-that-will-stop-poor-running/

 

CV5 TO 255

CV6 TO 128

CV49 TO 17

CV51 TO 0

CV52 TO 0

CV53 TO 140

CV54 TO 40

CV55 TO 28

CV56 TO 255

CV124 TO 4

 

 

CV124=4  sets F7 to half speed shunting.

 

 

Well i decided to put my money where my mouth is and actually try them myself.

 

Zimo 621N plug-in with above settings.

 

All I can say is shocking performance (runs beautifully on DC after a few months of running in) those settings are definitely NOT for a zimo probably for a ESU as mentioned previously.

 

After messing around for an hour or 2 the settings I found to be best (so far) is :

 

CV9 = 95

CV56 =55

(both above are recommended settings for N-gauge motor and not the coreless recommendations)

 

CV58 = 255 (is BEMF intensity defaults to 255 anyway but i messed so much with settings I checked after resetting decoder back to default settings (CV8=8))

 

CV5=180

CV6=60

(above are for 3 point speed curve just to bring it down a bit is it is so highly geared its top speed is ridiculous).

 

Hope the above helps but really should try things out before posting 'facts'!

[coachmann]

The DJM 14XX is a mess of a design that in my book joins the Stove R from the same brain. I had four to choose from and all behaved like a dogs hind leg on a downward gradient. I kept one but now the motor is stone dead for some unexplained reason, so it never did get as far as having another hundred quid spent on it installing sound.

Edited December 31, 2017 by coachmann

[Sir TophamHatt]

Don't apologise for dragging up an old thread!

 

Mine is arriving later this week (hopefully!) so will be useful as I wasn't going to part with £30 for them to install a decoder for me when I have a Lenz and Zimo at home sitting doing nothing

 

Will report back what happens.

[sjrixon]

JWD, thanks.. That's another step forward.

 

I've still not looked into adding some inertia in there, so stopping, stops dead. But it's running ok at least. 

[sjrixon]

I also had to tweak the CV2 to quite high, 44 in the end. Otherwise the loco would often move away slightly, a small wheel turn and then stall. Maybe I just need more running in, but this has helped at the moment.