Does our hobby shape our character?

[Dick Turpin]

Hi Phil, my name's actually Jim not Dick, no offence taken obviously because I asked for it choosing a forum name like that. Dick Turpin refers to LNER 2579, just one name of A1 and A3 that appeals to me. I've got some highwayman sensibilities about me though and me pistols at the ready for a good hold up, so a good stand and deliver situation might be on the cards sometime, what about you, you fancy takin' a chance on gettin' a fortune or maybe the hangin' tree along with me one dark and stormy night?

[Pacific231G]

 

If you model railways, you (we) are most probably on the spectrum!

Seen this before and It was disproved.

 

Hi Dave

Could you expand on that please? It's a claim I've also heard many times before so it would be good to have a credible, ideally peer reviewed, source to deny it. 

 

Curiously, I was given some of the Rev Awdry's Railway Series books when I was a child and didn't really take to them. I think maybe it was because they seemed to focus so much on the engines. Though I loved the steam railway I did get to spend time in my grandfather's signalbox just before he retired so was perhaps aware from early childhood that railways were about a lot more than enabling Kings and Castles to strut their stuff. .

Edited February 13, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Ozexpatriate]

Does our hobby shape our character?
 

Of late my thoughts have drifted to a more positive view of the hobby, that it encourages an interest in history, would tend to make us more aware of the world outside our immediate environment and at a practical level makes us more dexterous.

It can do all that. Pursuing the layout may result in some specific research, but I think a pre-disposition to an interest in history is required before wanting to build model with that much fidelity.
 

... in layout building we create our own idealised worlds,  does this engender a notion that in real life too, things can be shaped or changed for the better?

I would argue the opposite. Real life is messy and mostly (except for our own behaviour) uncontrollable. A layout is (largely) controlled by our own intent.
 

Could this lead to an above average positivity?

Having a hobby is good from a wellness standpoint - that in itself would lead to more positive outlook.

To your original question, "Does our hobby shape our character?" I suppose it can, in ways that are good and bad.

We can share what we learn and enjoy the camaraderie of others with similar interest - a positive; or get all spun up and curmudgeon-like over things out of our control like model availability, manufacturer behavior or price increases which, if this sort of thing spills over into our personal lives could get quite problematic.

 

Whether it changes or simply amplifies our character, I don't know.

[Ozexpatriate]

Having recently reflected on certain other aspects of my life I have wondered if I lie somewhere within the autistic spectrum.

If you model railways, you (we) are most probably on the spectrum! 

Seen this before and It was disproved.

Could you expand on that please? It's a claim I've also heard many times before so it would be good to have a credible, preferably peer reviewed, source to deny it. 

We need to be careful with labels. I'm not suggesting that there isn't such a thing as an Autistic Spectrum, but that it is a clinical definition that most of us are not able to apply accurately.

 

Just because someone is say, better at maths or remembering facts or other details, and might be introverted and possibly uncomfortable in some social settings isn't automatically a diagnosis of such things.

[CKPR]

My day job is clinical psychology, I've worked in the field of autism for nigh on a quarter of a century and, no, being a railway modeller (or having any other hobby for that matter) isn't a sign of being on the autistic spectrum.

[CKPR]

On 13/02/2017 at 22:42, Pacific231G said:

Hi Dave

Could you expand on that please? It's a claim I've also heard many times before so it would be good to have a credible, preferably peer reviewed, source to deny it.

 

It's very difficult, if not impossible, to 'prove' a negative but it's very straightforward to demonstrate that any given hypothesis (e.g. All railway modellers are autistic) is false. It's known as the 'black swan argument', in that it's easier to disprove the assertion that all swans are white, as all you need to do is to find a single black swan to disprove ('falsify) the assertion / hypothesis, rather than  it is to check all the swans in the world to prove that they are all white. I wouldn't advise the latter course of action anyway, as they're horrible creatures (says someone who was attacked by a swan in 1967 when it bit me AND stole my ice cream cornet).

Edited December 6, 2020 by CKPR

[Piltdown Man]

Railway modelling is but one of many hobbies. But when you start taking this hobby apart you very quickly find it is not a single hobby but a collection of hobbies or pastimes. Think of the skills required to create single layout. At its basic level, you can stick some track together and run a train on your dining room table. Moving on, you build a baseboard, build kits and here we go. There is no limit. Scales, eras, epocs, locations, if can you name it you can model it. Then there's the research element or if electronics or software floats your boat... And while all this is going on, we accept kindred spirits - no matter how weird they may appear to others. And that is one of this hobby's strengths. Let's hope not too much changes too quickly. A gentle evolution will do nicely thank you.

 

PM

[Pacific231G]

It's very difficult, if not impossible, to 'prove' a negative but it's very straightforward to demonstrate that any given hypothesis (e.g. All railway modellers are autistic) is false. It's known as the 'black swan argument', in that it's easier to disprove the assertion that all swans are white, as all you need to do is to find a single black swan to disprove ('falsify) the assertion / hypothesis, rather than check all the swans in the world to prove that they are all white. I won't advise that latter anyway as they're horrible creatures (says one who was attacked by one in 1967 when it bit me AND stole my ice cream cornet).

My recollection of scientific method is that is it is indeed impossible to "prove" a negative (something that those who don't want to believe in anthropogenic global warming tend to rely on despite the weight of evidence)  

About the first thing I was ever taught as a child was that a swan could break a man's arm with its wing;  for a long time I thought they went around looking for people's arms to break so you were maybe lucky to escape with just the loss of your ice cream. It's been gulls that have stolen my ice cream but I really enjoy watching them fly as they're awfully good at it and seem to genuinely love doing so (There are few things funnier though than watching a gull's reaction to a bad landing, hurt pride doesn't begin to express it). 

 

I've also pondered on the attraction of our hobby and I think for me it has something to do with the marriage of technology and art as well as the sheer range of skills involved from studying the shape of trees or the architecture of a building to figuring out a wiring diagram or how to shunt a goods train without enough siding space.

[Jol Wilkinson]

This hobby has a very wide spread of interests, so how it shapes one person's character would vary from another .

 

Asked another way, does our character define the way we "model railways"? Why does one person feel the need to collect every variant, colour and number of A4s in 4mm, while someone else wants to scratchbuild a model of a Welsh narrow gauge slate carrying railway?

[jjb1970]

Character development is an ongoing process, none of us are the same people we were five, ten.... years ago. The evolution of our characters is a product of many things such as our hobbies, personal relationships, circumstances, the environment we live in and many other things. So yes, I think our hobbies will influence our character, but it is only one of many factors at work and I suspect it is far from being the most significant.

[Oldddudders]

they're horrible creatures (says one who was attacked by one in 1967 when it bit me AND stole my ice cream cornet).

Have you ever had the chance to discuss this traumatic event with a psychologist? Oh, hang on......

[Oldddudders]

My late first wife was convinced that my ability to 'see' numbers (a very different thing from being numerate, which could be quite useful) was enhanced by my trainspotting days, when loco numbers took on a meaning, each being related to a class, a Region, perhaps a Pre-Grouping company. If that has led me to recall and notice numbers it is hard to see a down side.

 

And no other hobby might have enlightened me as to the meaning of 'bolections'.

[dvdlcs]

Hello.

 

Having done the spotting thing while I was younger, including multiple units and rolling stock, I used to study the books and the number ranges and codes have by and large stuck in my mind. Which is why a lot of my posts have the phrase "from memory" somewhere in them ...

 

I've always been interested in typing, sorting, listing etc. (taxonomy) and as a result I can usually remember some quite long and convoluted security codes as I see them as a mix of train numbers, depot codes, TOPS codes etc. PINs have never been a problem (so far).

 

Another thing the hobby has given me is a knowledge of British geography beyond the local area, other than the main cities and towns that most people might be expected to know.

 

Although, having watched a recent QI episode, it would appear that the phrase "taking (or should that be carrying?) coals to Newcastle" is dropping out of circulation, particularly among the younger generation(s).

[guillemot]

From Tony Attwood, "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome" (Tony Attwood is a clinical psychologist and something of a world authority on AS).

 

"An evaluation of the children seen by Hans Asperger at his clinic in Austria from 1950 - 1980"........showed the most common interests of children with Asperger's syndrome to be animals and nature, followed by technical and scientific subjects, followed by public transport systems (not necessarily railways). However since Hans Asperger's time, other interests such as computer games, Japanese anime, science fiction films and TV series have also become very popular. Girls sometimes have interests more typical of girls in general and since girls were somewhat late to the AS party as far as diagnosis is concerned, the list of most common interests may change as clinicians become better at diagnosing girls.

 

Since my interests are the seabirds of the north Atlantic and the railways of the Scottish Highlands I fit Hans Asperger's original research quite nicely but things have obviously changed a bit since then. (Incidentally re the brief discussion above, I love gulls. They are such beautiful and interesting birds, a view which makes me somewhat unpopular with many people). 

 

Based on my own, admittedly unscientific, observations of people I have spoken to in real life and on the internet, I suspect that railways are more interesting to people on the spectrum compared to the population in general; but the majority of people on the spectrum are not interested in railways and the majority of people who are interested in railways are not on the spectrum.

Edited February 15, 2017 by guillemot

[scots region]

For me it has been incredibly formative, in fact I'd even go as far to say that all of my interests have in some way flowed from my love of railways. For example, watching Thomas the tank engine got me interested in the history of rail transport, reading about the history of the nation's railways interested me in the history of the nation, this then lead to my desire to understand the past, which gave a greater understanding of the complexities of the day, which, I'd like to think, made me a far more compassionate, intelligent and humane being than I may otherwise have been.

 

ScR

[Argos]

Throughout my adult life I have been a member of various clubs and societies: Mountaineering, Rock climbing, Caving, Motorcycling, Rock music, Rugby, Triathlon, Cycling.....

 

I can honestly say every club has had its mix of introverts, extroverts, fanatics, socially inept and those on a different plain of reality to the norm.

There has even been some "normal" people, whatever that might mean........

I will admit this is based on observation rather than any statistical analysis.

 

I don't see anything different in the model railway community.

We are merely an slice of wider society with a specific interest.

 

Equally although some "discussions" get unnecessarily heated on this forum, a few years ago I stop posting on a popular cycling forum due to the fact it was impossible to express an opinion or offer advice without being pilloried. My wife had similar experience on Vegan cooking forum!

 

We do seem to suffer from a "label" problem, although I find this undeserved.

I suspect an element of not being able to drop the label is that many of us keep our modelling activities to ourselves.

I certainly do not discuss my modelling with friends, family or work colleagues, even though (especially as?) I work in the Rail industry.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Argos

[rockershovel]

As a general comment on clubs, I’ve been a member of quite a few over the years and I certainly feel that without some overall purpose to guide its activities, few clubs survive long. 

 

I would have thought that  the idea that our personalities shape our activities, was self-evident. Engineers tend to have a definite personality type (note that this varies from one discipline to another, it’s a big field) because there are certain characteristics which are necessary for the work; attention to detail, for one. 

 

 

 

[rockershovel]

On 09/03/2017 at 20:39, Argos said:

Throughout my adult life I have been a member of various clubs and societies: Mountaineering, Rock climbing, Caving, Motorcycling, Rock music, Rugby, Triathlon, Cycling.....

 

I can honestly say every club has had its mix of introverts, extroverts, fanatics, socially inept and those on a different plain of reality to the norm.

There has even been some "normal" people, whatever that might mean........

I will admit this is based on observation rather than any statistical analysis.

 

I don't see anything different in the model railway community.

We are merely an slice of wider society with a specific interest.

 

Equally although some "discussions" get unnecessarily heated on this forum, a few years ago I stop posting on a popular cycling forum due to the fact it was impossible to express an opinion or offer advice without being pilloried. My wife had similar experience on Vegan cooking forum!

 

We do seem to suffer from a "label" problem, although I find this undeserved.

I suspect an element of not being able to drop the label is that many of us keep our modelling activities to ourselves.

I certainly do not discuss my modelling with friends, family or work colleagues, even though (especially as?) I work in the Rail industry.

 

I freely admit that the prospect of being judged on my interests, by someone who thinks that watching several hours of soaps, rigged game shows and reality tv each night is an appropriate use of time, bothers me not one whit...

[tomparryharry]

Does our hobby shape our character? I'd think it's  the other way about; your character shapes your perception of the hobby.  Otherwise, we would all be modelling Great Western castles, and deriding those poor souls who mess about with A3 Pacifics....

 

What's the saying? Oh yes!  Vive le Difference!  Or, something like that....

[HonestTom]

On 06/12/2020 at 17:35, tomparryharry said:

Does our hobby shape our character? I'd think it's  the other way about; your character shapes your perception of the hobby.  Otherwise, we would all be modelling Great Western castles, and deriding those poor souls who mess about with A3 Pacifics....

 

What's the saying? Oh yes!  Vive le Difference!  Or, something like that....

I'd agree with this. For me, when I was a kid, I just wanted to run cool express locomotives. As an adult, I've found that my interests have altered the way I indulge in model railways. I've become interested in other creative hobbies like painting and theatre, and I love historical research. As a result, my model railways now are more about creating atmospheric pictures of a place and time (even if that place and time is imaginary). Express locomotives don't interest me as much, I'm more enthused by quirky industrial engines and grimy wagons.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 12/02/2017 at 10:44, Kris said:

The idea of a hobby shaping an individual works well if you only have a single hobby, or if you have hobbies that could be considered to be linked. When you have multiple hobbies that are not linked the argument becomes much weaker. 

 

Conversely, one might say that different hobbies cater for different parts of our personalities.

 

My toy trains habit model railway engineering enthusiasm caters for the part of me that wants a well-ordered universe of my own, devoid of disruption, change and chaos.

 

My gardening hobby caters for the part of me that recognise we are all part of Nature's Great Cycles. Part of what I planted last year has been harvested and saved for next year, and so the cycle continues, ever changing.

[john new]

Whether it is nature or nurture at the beginning of a person’s interests in a hobby, or that which makes some people rebel against the very idea whilst making that anti-stance in itself a hobby, is probably irrelevant.  To the question asked the answer is yes, stand in the Atrium at the NEC on a Warley day and you can fairly reliably split a significant % of the bikers, cat show, train fans and foodies by just their mode of dress; and when COMICON is on many of those really do stand out in the crowd.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by john new
Punctuation

[tomparryharry]

3 hours ago, john new said:

Whether it is nature or nurture at the beginning of a person’s interests in a hobby, or that which makes some people rebel against the very idea whilst making that anti-stance in itself a hobby, is probably irrelevant.  To the question asked the answer is yes, stand in the Atrium at the NEC on a Warley day and you can fairly reliably split a significant % of the bikers, cat show, train fans and foodies by just their mode of dress; and when COMICON is on many of those really do stand out in the crowd.

 

 

 So, if a 25-stone biker, with Harley-Davidson tattoos, inadvertently pokes you in the eye with a piece of flexi-track hanging out of his rucksack, what are you going to do?

 

Mind you, Counsellor Troi can beam me anywhere.....

[Neil]

21 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 

 So, if a 25-stone biker, with Harley-Davidson tattoos, inadvertently pokes you in the eye with a piece of flexi-track hanging out of his rucksack, what are you going to do?

 

Mind you, Counsellor Troi can beam me anywhere.....

 

I can't see a 25 stone biker plus full rucksack being particularly fleet of foot; I reckon you have plenty of options.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Do you not think that our hobby attracts more than a fair number of Rivet Counters and Pedants(Being a pedant is not a criminal offence in the UK). But we do seem to take a great deal of time looking into the smallest possible thing that has to be just so. Take the grade of track bed material and how many different forms of that we have. The size of the grains of sand, The colour and the texture. makes the mind swim.

Plus it means we play out our god like fantasies with out having to exterminate the next door neighbours........

So yes I think it does affect us. It makes us the most mentally stable meglomaniacs on the planet....... lol

Edited December 10, 2020 by cypherman