richard60098 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Hi gents, i'm looking for details on the Bardon Aggregates Hopper Wagon to model them in 4mm. Does anyone know of a website or book with scale measurements in / on so i can get the size right? Link to wagon below. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bardonpha/h3b9323ac#h3b9323ac Thanks Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Whilst not a help with a drawing, they were recoded to JGA in the early 90s and there are two batches, one with cast and one with fabricated Y25s. The fabricated bogie ones have diamond shape cutouts in the solebars Jo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Railway wagons plans book by John fox might have plans for them in, without having a copy I can't check though. Possible that they've been covered in DEMU update in the past too, but can't check ATM. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Whilst not a help with a drawing, they were recoded to JGA in the early 90s and there are two batches, one with cast and one with fabricated Y25s. The fabricated bogie ones have diamond shape cutouts in the solebars Jo Hi Jo, Yes i have got a file full of pics of both types which i've built up but don't want to proceed cutting plastcard just by guessing judging of the pics i have, on the diamond version i'm hoping theres some kind of strip with this mould incorporated in to it or something like as i'd love to model that type but otherwise i'll be doing the none diamond strip version first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Railway wagons plans book by John fox might have plans for them in, without having a copy I can't check though. Possible that they've been covered in DEMU update in the past too, but can't check ATM. Hi Kelly, Cheers i'll have a dig on the net, i have looked at books on Ebay and so on but none actually say if theres drawings for the JGA Bardon in? One does have a pic of the hopper on the front thou but thats useless as i have pics from all angles already! Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Does anyone know if the Cleveland Potash PBA Hopper sits on a twin V Cement Tank bogie chassis or is it a TEA chassis in length? Could be neither but surely its worth asking on here! Link to wagon here https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/10051176406/in/photolist-gjbUyW-gjciBB-6VDPRK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted February 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2017 Hello Richard, I can't help you with dimensions but for modelling purposes, and If you are to accept "looks right" levels of accuracy, then if you can find a decent side on photograph, or have access to GIMP software or similar, then you can get a reasonable drawing out of a photograph. You know at least one dimension - which is the bogie wheelbase. The Y25s on the Barton hoppers have a 1.8m wheelbase, whereas the bogie on the Potash vehicle is 2m I believe. If you have some decent hi res photos it is also worth studying the fine lettering - many wagons are labelled with some dimensions. If you are making these models from plasticard I would be tempted to contact someone like York Modelworks and see whether it is cost effective to have the longitudinal with the hexagonal holes made for you with their laser cutting service. Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Does anyone know if the Cleveland Potash PBA Hopper sits on a twin V Cement Tank bogie chassis or is it a TEA chassis in length? Could be neither but surely its worth asking on here! Link to wagon here https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/10051176406/in/photolist-gjbUyW-gjciBB-6VDPRK There was a drawing of this in a magazine in the late 1970s; the magazine was the one previously known as 'Model Railway News', but I'm having a senior moment, and can't remember what this became. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Hello Richard, I can't help you with dimensions but for modelling purposes, and If you are to accept "looks right" levels of accuracy, then if you can find a decent side on photograph, or have access to GIMP software or similar, then you can get a reasonable drawing out of a photograph. You know at least one dimension - which is the bogie wheelbase. The Y25s on the Barton hoppers have a 1.8m wheelbase, whereas the bogie on the Potash vehicle is 2m I believe. If you have some decent hi res photos it is also worth studying the fine lettering - many wagons are labelled with some dimensions. If you are making these models from plasticard I would be tempted to contact someone like York Modelworks and see whether it is cost effective to have the longitudinal with the hexagonal holes made for you with their laser cutting service. Cheers Ben A. Hello Ben and thankyou for your reply thats much appreciated, I'm sure one of my modelling friends may have gimp software so i'll get asking as i do have a few pics on file and theres some good ones on the net & Paul's site also. The Hexagonal's yes i would like to incorporate that in to the chassis would add that nice extra touch and i don't fancy geting my little L shape files and doing each hole that way! I will now look at the pics in detail with a magnifying glass and see if infact there is details regarding there length and dimensions as you say its worth a closer look! On the pics unfortunately Paul's are to small but there appears to be some wheelbase dimensions and others here! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/potashpba/h376fce06#h376fce06 This pic shows details i noted, Bogie wheelbase inner 35.3 would this be the feet between the bogies on the wagon do you know chap? https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3888938265/sizes/o/ Kindest Regards Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 There was a drawing of this in a magazine in the late 1970s; the magazine was the one previously known as 'Model Railway News', but I'm having a senior moment, and can't remember what this became. Hello Brian ah you get the senior moments too lol on the old mags yeh i had tons kept buying them from fairs and open days yrs ago but i just threw the lot as felt my man cave ceiling was gona fall through and leave wifey covered in books / mags in the lounge! Hehe wish i'd not now but if you remember it that would be excellent and i'd then start to search the net for it! Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 On the pics unfortunately Paul's are to small but there appears to be some wheelbase dimensions and others here! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/potashpba/h376fce06#h376fce06 Rich I've checked the digital download, its fine all of the lettering on the first half of the photo is readable. It is a IMB file. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 I've checked the digital download, its fine all of the lettering on the first half of the photo is readable. It is a IMB file. Paul Can't make it out on my PC Paul unfortunately is there anything to do with the measurements on the pic or your others and do you have any details on the length of the Bardon Hopper please chap? Best Regards Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Can't make it out on my PC Paul unfortunately is there anything to do with the measurements on the pic or your others and do you have any details on the length of the Bardon Hopper please chap? Best Regards Rich Just buy a download! Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hump Shunter Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hello Brian ah you get the senior moments too lol on the old mags yeh i had tons kept buying them from fairs and open days yrs ago but i just threw the lot as felt my man cave ceiling was gona fall through and leave wifey covered in books / mags in the lounge! Hehe wish i'd not now but if you remember it that would be excellent and i'd then start to search the net for it! Cheers Rich There was a mini series called 'The New Private Owner Vehicles" run in Model Railways. August 1977 had the Proctor & Gamble PBA October 1977 had the Cleveland Potash PBA January 1978 had a Bogie Esso LPG Tank PR78539 All were scale plans with photos. There may have been others I missed ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 There appears to be confusion about the Cleveland Potash hoppers, the Charles Roberts 1973 built ones STS11401-34 bear no relation to the Bardon hoppers; the Davis built batch of the 7 Maxwells CPL 17450-56 (now prefixed NACO) are closely related to the Bardon hoppers! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 There appears to be confusion about the Cleveland Potash hoppers, the Charles Roberts 1973 built ones STS11401-34 bear no relation to the Bardon hoppers; the Davis built batch of the 7 Maxwells CPL 17450-56 (now prefixed NACO) are closely related to the Bardon hoppers! Mark Saunders Hi Mark, no relation / resemblance atall chap between the two wagons as you say! I merely asked about the Potash as i've not got anywhere wat so ever with the Bardon Hopper that was all, no diagrams nor measurements so thought i'd try another wagon to see if anyone could help with that? I've now bought a good variety of wagon books and i'm awaiting arrival hopefully next week? As tbh i'm not buying a downloaded pic on the pretence that it has full wagon measurements along the chassis in the picture, heres hoping these books may have something in if not they'll have others and i'll scrap the above two ideas working on plenty of others i do have measurements for 4 now anyways fela. PDHDrawings did have some on that auction site but then when i went to buy the scaled down in measurements wagon books they'd dissapeared??? So i checked on his site but none of the wagon variety on there either! Luckilly my friend has PDH's P Coded book and that has a good few in so i can choose some of those atleast and for now email PDH and see if he can send me some of the other coded ones out. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I've now bought a good variety of wagon books and i'm awaiting arrival hopefully next week? As tbh i'm not buying a downloaded pic on the pretence that it has full wagon measurements along the chassis in the picture, heres hoping these books may have something in if not they'll have others and i'll scrap the above two ideas working on plenty of others i do have measurements for 4 now anyways fela. Just occasionally this hobby can really depress me. What is the difference between buying books and buying a download. I can't post a 4MB file on here. It took 50 years, tens of thousands of pounds to build my photo collection, and endless hours scanning and labelling to put it on line. I pay to maintain the site. Why do you think every thing should be given away? STS11427 reads bogie wb inner 36' 3 1/4" Bogie centres 42' 10" As you are learning contemporary railway modellling is very difficult. The designs are very complex, each little batch tends to differ to others and it is nigh on impossible to get access to the prototype, unlike in BR days. On the other hand a minority, but very noisy, expect incredible levels of accuracy. Upset Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hi Mark, no relation / resemblance atall chap between the two wagons as you say! I merely asked about the Potash as i've not got anywhere wat so ever with the Bardon Hopper that was all, no diagrams nor measurements so thought i'd try another wagon to see if anyone could help with that? I've now bought a good variety of wagon books and i'm awaiting arrival hopefully next week? As tbh i'm not buying a downloaded pic on the pretence that it has full wagon measurements along the chassis in the picture, heres hoping these books may have something in if not they'll have others and i'll scrap the above two ideas working on plenty of others i do have measurements for 4 now anyways fela. PDHDrawings did have some on that auction site but then when i went to buy the scaled down in measurements wagon books they'd dissapeared??? So i checked on his site but none of the wagon variety on there either! Luckilly my friend has PDH's P Coded book and that has a good few in so i can choose some of those atleast and for now email PDH and see if he can send me some of the other coded ones out. Cheers If you want basic dimensions look at the diagram books published on the Barrowmore website! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The pdh books iirc have some question marks over accuracy, but not sure if that applies to all the books or just some, I've considered getting one of the DC emu ones to check against other drawings. Paul, your photos are a valuable resource, thanks for the hard effort! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just occasionally this hobby can really depress me. What is the difference between buying books and buying a download. I can't post a 4MB file on here. It took 50 years, tens of thousands of pounds to build my photo collection, and endless hours scanning and labelling to put it on line. I pay to maintain the site. Why do you think every thing should be given away? STS11427 reads bogie wb inner 36' 3 1/4" Bogie centres 42' 10" As you are learning contemporary railway modellling is very difficult. The designs are very complex, each little batch tends to differ to others and it is nigh on impossible to get access to the prototype, unlike in BR days. On the other hand a minority, but very noisy, expect incredible levels of accuracy. Upset Paul Sincere apologies Paul, i did not mean it to come across like that! I'm very sorry if i upset you I'm just a skint modeller and was hoping someone on here could help! I'm very frustrated with life issues at the minute with death and problems and i just hoped doing a bit of plasticard learning may keep my mind of it all! Many thanks again for the measurements and taking your time to do this for me chap it is very much appreciated. Kindest Regards Rich P.S only bought the books cheap / second hand and yup no use, lovely pics in one of them like but the measurements whats of them in the other books are all RTR Wagons! Doh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted February 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi Rich Have you had a look in the Fox book recommended by Kelly earlier in the thread? Even if the Bardon hopper isn't in there should be plenty for you to have a go at making out of plasticard. Cheers, Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Ben, Just announce the Bardon wagon and save the man a load of hassle..... If you do the original version, I'm in for a rake of Bardon Green/Yellow and a rake of Aggregate Industries White/Blue. C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 If you want basic dimensions look at the diagram books published on the Barrowmore website! Mark Saunders Thankyou Mark, if i'd looked properly on there website i'd of noticed this! / Must stop searching for info at 4am in the morning! I've found loads of interesting wagons on there including Aggregates hoppers thou haven't seen the Bardon jobby? But will search through each document again as i've found a ECC Quarrries JGA style hopper which i think will be easier for mr basic builder here to try and make up. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 The pdh books iirc have some question marks over accuracy, but not sure if that applies to all the books or just some, I've considered getting one of the DC emu ones to check against other drawings. Paul, your photos are a valuable resource, thanks for the hard effort! Hmmm i didn't know this! Well my mate screen shotted a few wagons out of Dave's book so i'll have a look in comparison as theres a cement bogie hopper / Clyde Cement in PDH's book so i'll check sizes. Thanks chap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) Hi Rich Have you had a look in the Fox book recommended by Kelly earlier in the thread? Even if the Bardon hopper isn't in there should be plenty for you to have a go at making out of plasticard. Cheers, Mike Hello Mike, yes i've looked at it on the net but not gone ahead with the purchase after my friend sent this pic from in the Fox book i don't think me a basic learner could get anywhere of this measuring style in the centre of the page under the wagon! Thanks Rich Edited February 25, 2017 by Andy Y Image removed - copyright Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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