Channel 4 model railway challenge

[newbryford]

Mrs NB who has very little interest in railways apart from that foisted upon her by me. Heck, it took 25 years of pain and suffering marriage before she bought me something railway as a present (A silver Dapol 68 BTW!).

 

She was watching something over on ITV3 when I returned home about 8.20. She was quite concerned that it would finish by 9, so she we could watch the BLR on +1.

 

She was quite interested that they were comparing the BLR to engineering on the real thing, such as the Bowes Railway with the counterbalance.

 

So if captivates her, they aren't doing a bad job with the program.

 

I quite liked the way that the viaduct across the weir was built. Minimal waste of the plywood sheets.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[NittenDormer]

All good harmless fun, which is what is important. Best engineering solution so far: "We've lost radio control, get a big stick."

[Reorte]

A very enjoyable episode. The series is progressing well. I thought the viaduct was a masterpiece. Sadly the leader of the team who are responsible for the “incline” is not coming across well at all.

The young lad with the traction engines was very impressive though - I was popping in and out whilst it was on but did it say he was only eighteen?

[BorderShed]

 Mr Spooner any more than last time.

Was that the objectionable 'stealer of the turntables' guy ?

He was the only two low points in this program. :( Shame that it was not he that ended up in the canal !

 

I thought that DS was in better humour/spirits than in the first episode.

Would have liked them to have tried a banker before going the funicular? option. It would have given Roundhouse a chance to parade more of their wares Though if one alone without a train couldnt make it then two the same would not either !! Is that their most powerfull best traction loco ?

Edited January 14, 2018 by BorderShed

[andyram]

The young lad with the traction engines was very impressive though - I was popping in and out whilst it was on but did it say he was only eighteen?

Yes the young lad with the traction engines was only 18 and he was very impressive.

[newbryford]

Yes the young lad with the traction engines was only 18 and he was very impressive.

 

A junior Fred Dibnah.

 

I can see him getting his own program in the future. 

 

And a Lancashire Lad at that. (If you can count Wigan as Lancs and not Greater Manc.........)

Cheers,

Mick

[Pacific231G]

@Pacific231G

 

Hi (or should I say 'bonsoir'), Philou here,

 

I've just caught up with this thread - unfortunately I haven't seen the episodes as I can't get UK television where I am (I don't have a VPN gateway). It's a reply to the OT point of the CFDS. I have found the location of the property on Google Maps if you haven't already so done. I couldn't see any earthworks via the Satellite - but as mentioned, it lies in an area that is heavily wooded. Here's the link:

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/45370+M%C3%A9zi%C3%A8res-lez-Cl%C3%A9ry/@47.8175835,1.8469584,1308m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47e4e8c3ae2587a1:0x40dc8d70537da00!8m2!3d47.818596!4d1.804427

 

@Nearholmer

 

Might I guess that CFDS stood for Chemin de Fer de la Sologne - as the property lies in the Sologne.

 

Cheers,

 

Philou

 

Gah! As I was typing this response so 231G came up with the precise reply - sorry.

Well done for identifying the exact location.

Some of the estate roads seem much clearer on Google maps  I'd been fooled by an apparent commune boundary so was looking the other side of the aerodrome (which must be a  private "farm strip" as it isn't in the pilot's guides and there are no runway numbers.

Google Earth came up with some interesting images in its "historical" sequence. .Most are too tree covered to really make out paths but the first in the dated sequence from 2006 is a more detailed NASA image and you can make out some estate roads and trackshalf hidden by trees. There are also some other possible lines that look "interesting" particularly an apparent curve that could correspond to the northern end of the double track loop. I'd be intrigued to find out how much of the railway actually got built or at least graded. 

[Huw Griffiths]

Can anyone define exciting and outrageous?

 

I don't know - but I'm guessing it might have something to do with a live steam loco going for an unintended swim.

 

 

Well apparently anyone can (and does) define model railway and train set, so I don't see why anyone shouldn't define exciting and outrageous.

 

Meanwhile, given a choice between this and a documentary on the Voyager space mission, my other half said "definitely the trains".

 

I wonder which channel this Voyager documentary was on - and when it'll get repeated.

 

Seriously though, there is / was definitely a tenuous link between the Voyager space missions and UK railways - what do you think the Class 220 DEMUs were named after?

 

 

The "public" are pretty ignorant of the skills and expertise that goes into creating a model railway. I know from speaking to them at a number of shows over a long time. They are often surprised at what we do (when explained) to achieve the results they see. So to describe a model railway as a trainset is demeaning and serves only to reinforce the stereotypical view of our hobby.

 

... I have read this thread since its inception, but that doesn't alter my view. The programme subject, for example, isn't a model railway or a trainset. It is an exercise in miniature engineering, teamwork and television programme production.

 

That's certainly the way I'm seeing it.

 

I suspect I might not be alone here - I seem to recall Claire Barratt (on BBC Breakfast, last Friday) saying something along the lines that she "came along for the engineering - but fell in love with the train".

 

 

Best quote from episode 2: "This is a whole pile of engineering work, and I am looking for cream."

 

I'm not too sure how that'll help but would you prefer single or double?

 

When I have cream, I usually prefer the extra thick stuff - though I doubt if it would have been available during this project.

 

 

I’m very familiar with non-participant ignorance when it comes to what is involved in making a model railway, and it sometimes requires super-human efforts of self-control when someone implies that what has taken years of craft all came packed in a box labelled Hornby, so I understand the urge, but ....

 

... But, a lot of people will never, in a million years ‘get’ railway modelling, especially very finescale modelling, because they simply don’t know enough about either the prototype, or what can and can’t be bought over the counter, to be able understand what you’ve achieved, or they simply aren’t moved by it.

 

I suspect this might go some way towards explaining why one relative of mine insists on dismissively referring to anything connected with model railways as "choo-choo trains", every time he visits. To suggest that I might be starting to find this somewhat tedious might be a slight understatement.

 

 

All good harmless fun, which is what is important. Best engineering solution so far: "We've lost radio control, get a big stick."

 

That sounds like a decent engineering solution - certainly the simplest solution to an immediate problem.

 

 

Anyway, whatever various people might see in this series (and the whole exercise), I'm certainly finding that it makes for enjoyable viewing.

 

 

Huw.

[rockershovel]

I thought that was all pretty cringe-making, this week.

 

The “turntables” business comes down to lack of effective project management, didn’t anyone in control take any interest in this?

 

The “boat” business was absurd, was it beyond the wit of man to check the range of the rc controller beforehand? The “ferry” itself was totally inadequate, I’m sure an experienced hobbyist could have been found to advise...

 

Also, isn’t there any restriction on the number of derailments, foundering at sea etc that can be accepted?

 

I can’t imagine how that quad bike ended in the river.. the obvious failure to check the oil regularly speaks for itself.. I’ve worked with quads and to have four out of five u/s within days, is idiocy of a high order.

 

The viaduct - really? I’d have thought that a pallet of kerbstones from the local builders merchant, one every five metres and scaffold boards across the top would have been quite adequate, and constructed in half a day

 

Sorry, but must try harder..

Edited January 15, 2018 by rockershovel

[BorderShed]

 was it beyond the wit of man to check the range of the rc controller beforehand?

That is what they did, they checked, found it inadequate, went to take2 , take3 ,,, sorted, but decided to run with take1 (the discovery phase ) as better candy.

 

The prob is that TV  "as presented" appears to be linear, whereas in real (TV cutting room floor*)  life it is a re-entrant loop

 

*in the days of yore, when we ended up in heaps of cut 2" tape on the floor, - - I believe it is a lot less wasteful in these days of electronics !

Edited January 15, 2018 by BorderShed

[Intercity125]

The viaduct - really? I’d have thought that a pallet of kerbstones from the local builders merchant, one every five metres and scaffold boards across the top would have been quite adequate, and constructed in half a day

 

Sorry, but must try harder..

But it wouldn't have been as entertaining to watch.  Besides you can't ask a group of Engineers to throw down a load of kerbs and some planks?  We're talking about British engineering pride here..........

[Pacific231G]

That is what they did, they checked, found it inadequate, went to take2 , take3 ,,, sorted, but decided to run with take1 (the discovery phase ) as better candy.

 

The prob is that TV  "as presented" appears to be linear, whereas in real (TV cutting room floor*)  life it is a re-entrant loop

 

*in the days of yore, when we ended up in heaps of cut 2" tape on the floor, - - I believe it is a lot less wasteful in these days of electronics !

Gosh. Where did you have the luxury of cut editing quad tape -with the microscope? We were using it when I first started and sports were still cut editing for highlights but it was all tape to tape with ten second run ups and umpteen chinagraph marks on the tape till the cut happened on the right frame. Apart from archive,  I think the last time I met quad two inch tape in anger was in about 1979

 

I doubt if they had time for multiple takes on something like this (though I'm sure a few of the cutaways were "can you just join those two bits of track together again so we can get a close up") and they don't have a camera on everything that happens 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Jenny Emily]

A very enjoyable episode. The series is progressing well. I thought the viaduct was a masterpiece. Sadly the leader of the team who are responsible for the “incline” is not coming across well at all.

 

There was nothing wrong with Paul, just that you're not seeing the hours of things going really well in between the bits they have chosen to use. Paul was okay and very skilled at what he does. He was thrown in to being team leader with little advance warning and did exceptionally well under the circumstances. The nature of television is that they distill several days of 12 camera crews filming for up to 15 hours a day so you aren't going to see everything (or each episode would be running continuously for a week or more)

 

 

It is interesting watching what made the cut versus having been in Scotland and seen the other side of all this happening in real time over 12 days. Television as transmitted shows but a minute fraction of everything that was filmed, otherwise 12 camera crew filming for up to 15 hours a day would mean that the viewer would have to settle down for over a month of continuous watching to see absolutely everything that was filmed. Many viewers seem to forget that at times.

[Trigger123]

I can't help feeling the cost of this exercise could have been spent building a couple of miles of real track for a preserved railway or even a tender just my option?

[BorderShed]

Gosh. Where did you have the luxury of cut editing quad tape -with the microscope?

Yep microscopes, cotton buds, feromagnetic, an'all !  beggers belief in this day and age !

Underneath the fountain in TC ( I woz there, as the saying goes, when it was being built and now I am as redundant as it is   and I just need to be sold off for re-developement as well )

Edited January 15, 2018 by BorderShed

[MarkC]

Well, what can I say? I've not seen the show yet, as I'm away at sea, but I read Simon's post, went off to FarceBerk to see what he was on about, and, well, my flabber was severely gasted...

 

My own opinion is that this show is not directed at railfans per se, but those who we sometimes refer to as 'normals', who want some entertainment. As such, it appears to be doing well.

 

Perhaps those who are so critical should look a little closer to home - some of the comments against the likes of Simon are horrendous, and it's that sort of attitude that does give us a bad name. It's like the rude photographers who shout at people, particularly children, for 'spoiling their shot', or the 'flailing nutters' on diesel tours.

 

No wonder we have a problem advertising our hobby in a good light, and many people simply keep quiet about being part of it.

 

Mark

 

*now braced for incoming*

[ForestPines]

There was nothing wrong with Paul, just that you're not seeing the hours of things going really well in between the bits they have chosen to use. Paul was okay and very skilled at what he does. He was thrown in to being team leader with little advance warning and did exceptionally well under the circumstances. The nature of television is that they distill several days of 12 camera crews filming for up to 15 hours a day so you aren't going to see everything (or each episode would be running continuously for a week or more)

 

It is interesting watching what made the cut versus having been in Scotland and seen the other side of all this happening in real time over 12 days. Television as transmitted shows but a minute fraction of everything that was filmed, otherwise 12 camera crew filming for up to 15 hours a day would mean that the viewer would have to settle down for over a month of continuous watching to see absolutely everything that was filmed. Many viewers seem to forget that at times.

My first reaction to ep. 2 was that Paul appeared to be an excellent team leader and Hadrian appeared to be a horrible man with no idea how to manage subordinates effectively. I certainly wouldn't accept Hadrian's behaviour from a colleague; I don't know if this is the result of the edit, but in both this and the previous episode there seemed to be far too much of: Hadrian tells people vaguely what he wants, then gets angry and accuses them of incompetence because they didn't read his mind and build exactly what he wanted.

 

Jenny, I would imagine, given how the teams were spread out, it must be particularly satisfying for you to watch the footage of events you'd previously only been told about.

[andyram]

I thought that was all pretty cringe-making, this week.

The “turntables” business comes down to lack of effective project management, didn’t anyone in control take any interest in this?

The “boat” business was absurd, was it beyond the wit of man to check the range of the rc controller beforehand? The “ferry” itself was totally inadequate, I’m sure an experienced hobbyist could have been found to advise...

Also, isn’t there any restriction on the number of derailments, foundering at sea etc that can be accepted?

I can’t imagine how that quad bike ended in the river.. the obvious failure to check the oil regularly speaks for itself.. I’ve worked with quads and to have four out of five u/s within days, is idiocy of a high order.

The viaduct - really? I’d have thought that a pallet of kerbstones from the local builders merchant, one every five metres and scaffold boards across the top would have been quite adequate, and constructed in half a day

Sorry, but must try harder..

I somehow think you have missed the point with your comments regarding the viaduct. It is clear that the program is trying to use railway related techniques to solve engineering issues encountered on the route. Yes your viaduct solution would probably have been quicker and easier, but making a viaduct is far more in keeping with the idea of building a railway. I think the completed structure looked great. I am sure there were better solutions to crossing the river and building the incline, but these may not have been “real” railway related if you understand my meaning.

 

There was nothing wrong with Paul, just that you're not seeing the hours of things going really well in between the bits they have chosen to use. Paul was okay and very skilled at what he does. He was thrown in to being team leader with little advance warning and did exceptionally well under the circumstances. The nature of television is that they distill several days of 12 camera crews filming for up to 15 hours a day so you aren't going to see everything (or each episode would be running continuously for a week or more)

 

 

It is interesting watching what made the cut versus having been in Scotland and seen the other side of all this happening in real time over 12 days. Television as transmitted shows but a minute fraction of everything that was filmed, otherwise 12 camera crew filming for up to 15 hours a day would mean that the viewer would have to settle down for over a month of continuous watching to see absolutely everything that was filmed. Many viewers seem to forget that at times.

Please don’t misunderstand my comments regarding Paul. I am only too aware that hours and hours of footage will have been edited out and that things can be manipulated to tell a story or build a character. The producers obviously decided to only show bits that made him look a bit of a pr#t. I am not suggesting that is his true character and hence chose my wording very carefully. I did not say he was a pr#t, or was irritating, or even that he was a poor leader. All of those were suggested by the way the show was edited. What I said was “sadly he did not come across too well” eg unfortunately the editing had not been kind to him. I do not know Paul, have never met him and therefore would not judge his personality based on a few minutes of television footage. Edited January 15, 2018 by andyram

[t8hants]

I bailed out halfway through last nights episode and won't return to it.

It would have made an interesting one hour programme, but I have no interest in the ensemble cast of 'characters', thats not what I watch for, but sadly that is what modern 'reality TV' is all about.

The one good thing about modern programming is it is doing an excellent job in weaning me off it.

[Chris M]

Whether people class this as a 'proper' model railway or not, one thing it does have is better/more realistic scenery than I've ever seen, anywhere (including Pendon); Real canals, swing bridges, locks, plus big mountains !

I thought the scenery was somewhat over scale

[MrTea]

Dear Channel 4,

 

I watched last night's episode of The Biggest Little Railway with interest.

 

After a promising start I'm afraid my enjoyment was spoiled rather by the fact that, although presented by a retired Army Colonel Dick Strawbridge, the model viaduct being constructed across the spillway was clearly being built of plywood!

 

I have to say that I am very disappointed and unless issues such as this are addressed I am afraid I won't be tuning in for future episodes.

 

Yours etc.

 

A. Pedant

3rd armchair from the left

Little Wingeing

Surrey

[Chris M]

Maybe I’m alone on this but I thoroughly enjoyed both programmes so far. It has to be taken within the context of what it is meant to be - light general entertainment. There are many things that could have been better in terms of the build but that is good as it gives food for thought as to how things should be done. It’s also interesting to see the various characters involved; I love some and would avoid others but that’s life. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

[45156]

Well I enjoyed most of Ep 2 and felt that it want a long way to putting right any impressions about "playing trains" in the main.  Still unsure about shouty man, but have always had a lot of time for Claire Barrett who is an excellent engineer who is good at thinking a bit less like an engineer when circumstances demand.

 

Thought the viaduct was beautifully done, and was the high spot of the episode.  Low spot was shouty man vs the team on the incline, bit hey, that's TV.  Also not sure about the train ferry idea, but again, it made good viewing for the masses.

 

Sorry to see that we didn't get a little more of the input of team D to the project, and our Jenny didn't get a lot of air time - still there's three more episodes to go.

 

All in all, though, the true star of this show is the loco, and this does make a very good advert for the products of Roundhouse, as it appears to be standing up well to its treatment.  It seemed to survive its ducking in the lock pretty well.  I see that there is a six month waiting period for this particular model if purchased from that well known retail outled on the Isle Of Man.

[Chris M]

The use of ply is good for a two week project -easy to work with and reasonably strong in the short term. This isn’t like building your own garden railway where more permanent works are required.

[45156]

Maybe I’m alone on this but I thoroughly enjoyed both programmes so far. It has to be taken within the context of what it is meant to be - light general entertainment. There are many things that could have been better in terms of the build but that is good as it gives food for thought as to how things should be done. It’s also interesting to see the various characters involved; I love some and would avoid others but that’s life. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

No I also am enjoying this show a lot.  As to the characters and some you like, some you don't - that's life and you get on with some, and not with others.  There are intense and annoying characters everywhere.  One of my other enjoyments is the canine world, and there are many many intense dog owners at the dog shows who are so critical of any dog other than their own.  Comments like "that judge must be blind, the dog he put up looked like the front of one and the back of another - shame Specsavers haven't got a stand here" was one such that I overheard ringside.  I don't do dog showing because of the cattiness of many of the patricipants.