Rufford Red Lion Square

[James Harrison]

The last of those carriages now has the paintwork finished and corridor connections fitted. So attention as ever turns to 'what next?' and I'm in a mood to look at locos. First, let's see what the to-do list is like... Oh. Oh dear. Just about every single one of my locos needs something doing to it, whether it's finishing off or running repairs or renewal. Where to start? Well, I've got no fewer than 4 J11s, all mechanically pretty good... How does a batch repair/ repaint of those sound? Though currently I think I have number plates for only two of them. Plus a J10 to repaint and another that needs weathering. I hate lining, and the GC's lining is particularly awkward. Happily the goods locos went into unlined black circa 1916 and photographic evidence suggests most of them stayed that way, or the lining obliterated under dirt, until 1921/22. So, yes. Time to break out the chalk pastels!

[James Harrison]

Hednesford no.1 shop stirs after a 15-month hibernation. The last loco being a Humpy tank in January last year. J10 #792 is a previous project, not particularly happy with the cab sheet lining I've decided to weather it. The un-numbered J10 has just this evening lost it's LNER (no idea what that stands for) identity and a new coat of paint prior to gaining a Great Central identity and weathering. As suspected, I only have plates for 2 of my 4 J11s but that's still enough to go on right now...

Edited May 5, 2019 by James Harrison

[James Harrison]

Not much, or indeed any, modelling so far today.  University work kind of got in the way- that's just how it is sometimes.  Still, it's nice sometimes to take a step back and consider what you're trying to achieve. 

 

Firstly- town planning- I very nearly bought some more Hornby Victorian semi-detached houses last night, then forgot about them and just missed the end of the auction.  I'm not sure I'd have room for them anyway. Looking at 25-inch maps of places like Newark on Trent, what strikes me is how you get a few large buildings arranged along a street or around a square and then turn a corner and- it's all tight back to backs and houses.  See that picture of Leicester Belgrave Road I posted a few weeks ago.  The other side of the street was a small nondescript row of shops...

 

My thoughts now, so far as physical modelling is concerned, is that Red Lion Square sits on the western side of the A614, so looking at the layout you'd be on the eastern side of the road looking east into the railway's property.  Then around the square itself would be typical Notts market town vernacular.  Some of these images I think have been seen here before- a few years ago. 

 

So then the roads radiating out from the square would be domestic semis and terraces but the question is how much room will be available to model this- I'm not going to go out and buy up housing kits right now as I don't have room to store them and might not have room to build them...

 

Secondly, loco lining and weathering.  There is a lot of photographic evidence that freight locos tended to be quite dirty whilst mixed traffic/ passenger engines were perhaps more likely to be cleaned.  From this I am taking away that the majority of my freight locos need to be really quite filthy and that the lining I have spent years agonising over is perhaps effort wasted, on freight engines at least.  #792 will be the guinea pig for this, last night it got a dilute wash of black and later it will get a dilute wash of dak brown preparatory to washes of soot and general grime. 

[ChrisN]

I read somewhere, once that express engines were cleaned every day, mixed traffic twice a week and freight locos once a week.  (Citation needed!)

 

I have also read somewhere on RMWeb, (Castle Aching?  Everything gets discussed there,) that some long distance freights, in some companies, which were backed into a siding for extended periods to keep the running line free for passenger work, leaving the crew not much to do except clean their engine.

 

Love the pictures.

[James Harrison]

I'm working from comments in John Quick's GCR liveries book, photos in same and also from Great Central locomotives volumes 1 and 2. Pre-WW1 I agree the locos are generally spotless but photos of the later 1910s and early 1920s the freight engines, it's difficult to see if they're even lettered, let alone lined (!)

#792 is definitely getting the grubby, sooty, caked with road dirt and coal dust look now. Being set in Nottinghamshire I've suggested limescale around the boiler plugs too; Tuxford in particular the water was almost toxic to boilers.

 

[James Harrison]

That's better, it's dried a little more and the dusty look is coming through. Now, whether to use a mid or or light grey chalk, or crushed charcoal, next.

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I have also read somewhere on RMWeb, (Castle Aching?  Everything gets discussed there,) that some long distance freights, in some companies, which were backed into a siding for extended periods to keep the running line free for passenger work, leaving the crew not much to do except clean their engine.

 

Pretty much all companies, at all periods - but especially so on the Midland Division in the 1950s [T. Essery, Firing Days at Saltley]. Which would tend to disprove the theory, as Saltley engines weren't exactly spotless at that time. On the other hand, he says the 3F 0-6-0s used for banking up from Saltley to King's Heath on the Camp Hill line did get some love and attention - particularly run-down engines would be assigned to this duty in the knowledge that a week's TLC would set them up for a while longer.

[James Harrison]

Weathering in various stages. These are a few days old now and I can't recall if I've done more work since. Broadly though, thin washes of black and brown followed by rubbed in charcoal and various grey and brown chalk pastels. The limescale around the washout plugs is very light grey acrylic paint.

[t-b-g]

Lining GCR locos is a real challenge! I have done a few but never been really happy with the results.

 

Certainly, once WW1 got going the amount of resources available for cleaning fell away and never really recovered to pre 1914 standards.

 

Have you seen the bit in John Quick's book about the 6 J11s that were transferred to Tuxford just after the take over by the GCR and were painted in LD&ECR style by the works there?

 

I am seriously tempted to have a go at doing one like that, with Great Central lettering but with red, yellow and blue lining. I don't know how long they lasted like that but as my modelling period is 1907/8 it is just right for me.

[James Harrison]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

Lining GCR locos is a real challenge! I have done a few but never been really happy with the results.

 

Certainly, once WW1 got going the amount of resources available for cleaning fell away and never really recovered to pre 1914 standards.

 

Have you seen the bit in John Quick's book about the 6 J11s that were transferred to Tuxford just after the take over by the GCR and were painted in LD&ECR style by the works there?

 

I am seriously tempted to have a go at doing one like that, with Great Central lettering but with red, yellow and blue lining. I don't know how long they lasted like that but as my modelling period is 1907/8 it is just right for me.

 

I was going to do one of my J11s like that, as the LDEC is literally just up the road from Rufford.  I was also going to line my LDEC class D 0-6-4 in that style, but I found a reference (Ernest F Carter, "Britain's Railway Liveries", page 231) that by 1906 "Engines were black, lined out with grey bands, edged with chrome yellow on the outside and vermillion on the inside".  Which I must say I found rather disappointing as I was looking forward to doing a couple of engines in LDEC style.  For the class D, I chose HMRC LNWR/ BR lining and applied it upside down as an approximation of late LDEC lining.  I've yet to puzzle out how I can get a neat application of the chrome yellow. 

 

I also see that, somehow, I've managed to put the same set of photographs up twice. 

[James Harrison]

Weekend plans?

 

Two 9Hs to finish off and weather.  Ballast brake van to, hopefully, get a bit further along (maybe even get the roof on?).  Eight open coal wagons to build.... not all in one go!

[James Harrison]

I'm calling #792 done.  Right, where's my other 9H?

[James Harrison]

So far this weekend;

1. Ballast brake has gained a roof, a finished paint job, transfers and ballast ploughs.  Once these are painted, and the brakevan weathered, it is finished. 

2. The first of the coal wagons has been built, painted and lettered.  Paintwork needs to be finished off, then it needs ballast and a load and weathering. 

3. No fewer than seven more coal wagon kits have been ordered.... and the wheels for them...

4. My ROD (a project from my roundtoit pile) has had new safety valves fitted and I've been assessing how much work would be required to get it in traffic.  The original builder somehow managed to get the smokebox door on upside down.... well that's not coming off in a hurry so instead looks like I'll have to remove the hinges and dart and replace them.

[Annie]

You're definitely on a roll there James.  

[James Harrison]

Finished! One ballast brake and one suitably riffy GCR hired coal wagon. My plans are, to build this first rake of eight as empties, and the next rake of seven as loaded, and then take it from there. Trying to upload photos from my 'phone but it doesn't seem to want to play tonight.

[James Harrison]

There we go! The other 7 coal wagons are also progressing well.

[James Harrison]

I arrived home this evening and- seven more coal wagons have turned up.  Thoughts on this. 

 

The eight I have currently built/ am building I will keep as one rake, all empties. 

 

The seven that have arrived today will be built in GC livery and kept as a rake of full wagons. 

 

So, currently then I have three rakes of coal wagons- 2 GCR and 1 of private owners. 

 

In addition there are the rake of cattle wagons, two rakes of covered vans (albeit only five vehicles each) and a rake of bogie fish vans (one of these still to build to go with the two I've already got running).  Then there's a bit of new construction to look at, and I think for the moment that's probably going to be 'it'. 

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, James Harrison said:

 

I arrived home this evening and- seven more coal wagons have turned up. 

 

 

Thoughts on this. 

Yet another blues song?

[James Harrison]

It's another weekend!  Plans.  I've been slowly progressing the other seven coal wagons this week, to the point that they are all on wheels but lack buffers, brake levers and couplings.  Four of them have been painted and the other three are still in bare plastic.  So, taken as an entity, they're about halfway there. 

 

Aside from the goal of getting at least a few of them finished this weekend, I also want to look at my other 9H and hopefully get that finished in the next few days.  All it really needs is transfers, varnish and weathering. 

 

And if I have time- one of my 9Js will also get some attention. 

[James Harrison]

My other 9H had some work today, transfers, number and weathering. I think this is about as far as I want to weather this one, a thin wash of kid grey and a very thin wash of black to suggest soot streaking. I'll take a view when it is dry, some charcoal might be introduced, but I quite like the lightly weathered look.

[James Harrison]

Yesterday then I managed the following....

-9H #818 completed- but needs a replacement cab handrail. 

-Four coal wagons completed;

-Three coal wagons 'nearly' completed. 

 

Plans for today:

-Three coal wagons to recieve lettering and varnish- and weathering if time permits.

-Where have my four J11s got to...

 

 

[Poggy1165]

There are plenty of photos of GCR locos, especially goods locos, in dirty condition post-1914, indeed some that look like everyday BR.

 

At the risk of being boring I don't recall seeing  photo of a J10 with an oval number plate. Most seem to have had painted numerals, a few (late batch) the rectangular version. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were exceptions. Most of the 2-4-2ts (Class 3 GCR) had painted numbers, but just a few had the oval number plates. I have a model of one such, complete with round-top boiler! I am wary of being too definitive about GC locos because there seems always to be an exception. Sometimes I think there was a company policy that no two locos should be exactly alike - but that's probably putting it a bit high.

[James Harrison]

I'm sure I read that when I was doing my first J10, but, as these things usually work, I only found out after buying the plates.  After using transfers on 792 I used the plates on 818 just to ring the changes.  I might yet switch them out for transfers as the jury is out whether they look right or not. 

 

Now the 2-4-2s, I've got a pair of those to attend to so you've saved me a pitfall there as I was going to fit numberplates to them. 

[Edwardian]

21 hours ago, Poggy1165 said:

Sometimes I think there was a company policy that no two locos should be exactly alike - but that's probably putting it a bit high.

 

If so, they faced stiff competition from the North Eastern!

[Poggy1165]

22 hours ago, James Harrison said:

I'm sure I read that when I was doing my first J10, but, as these things usually work, I only found out after buying the plates.  After using transfers on 792 I used the plates on 818 just to ring the changes.  I might yet switch them out for transfers as the jury is out whether they look right or not. 

 

Now the 2-4-2s, I've got a pair of those to attend to so you've saved me a pitfall there as I was going to fit numberplates to them. 

 

Depending on which 2-4-2t you choose, numberplates can be correct. The best bet is to work off a photo. Mine is 578. She definitely had plates when she had a round top boiler as I have a photo in that condition. So it's 6/4 on she had them when rebuilt with a Belpaire. The only way to be absolutely sure is to find of photo of a loco in the year (ideally) that you are modelling. I was actually told that a numberplate was "wrong" for 578 when I actually had a photo proving it was right! If you get stuck, drop me I line and I will look through my photo collection for you.