First Group win South West franchise

[Arun Sharma]

Can I make the point that on an certain automatic railway - it is in fact the person at the front end that has ben dispensed with and the only person on the train is in actuality "the Guard" - operates doors and protects the train and its occupants, etc ............. GOO maybe ??

Except of course that the DLR's  "train captain" has actually been trained in how to drive the train.

Edited September 6, 2017 by ted675

[jim.snowdon]

Except of course that the DLR's  "train captain" has actually been trained in how to drive the train.

And the same for London's Victoria Line ever since it opened, and the other LU lines that have since gone over to ATO, and on all of them, his job in regard to door operatin is simply to close them - the train does the door enabling by itself.

 

Jim

[Chris116]

And the same for London's Victoria Line ever since it opened, and the other LU lines that have since gone over to ATO, and on all of them, his job in regard to door operatin is simply to close them - the train does the door enabling by itself.

 

Jim

On the Victoria line, the driver opens and closes the doors.

[phil-b259]

On the Victoria line, the driver opens and closes the doors.

 

On ALL London Underground lines, door operation is in the hands of drivers and has been for many decades now - not just the Victoria line, although it is true that it was the first line to go down that route.

 

Also while the Victoria line may well have pioneered the concept of automatic train control (i.e. all the driver does is open and close the doors), such technology is now fitted to the Jubilee, Northern and Central lines too making them more akin to the DLR.

 

Thameslink will also feature automic train control in the core and with demand for rail services continuing to grow the technology is quite likely to spread even further as time goes by - Clapham Junction - Waterloo being a potential candidate in decades to come.

[Gwiwer]

 

 

while the Victoria line may well have pioneered the concept of automatic train control (i.e. all the driver does is open and close the doors)

It was the Central Line's Hainault - Woodford shuttle service (as it then was) which pioneered automatic train control.  This was the test-bed for the Victoria Line and was running for several years before that line opened.  Specially-built 1960-stock motor coaches ran with converted and silver-painted trailers of Standard stock dating from 1927 / 1935.  The driver initiated movement and drove the trains within depots and the turnback siding at Woodford but in service they were controlled by "command spots" and the driver was merely a person at the front.  Because there was no agreement at that time to single-man these trains carried guards who operated the doors. 

[SRman]

There was also another section of experimental ATO using COP Stock on the Metropolitan Line, although the location escapes me at the moment (at work with no access to my reference books).

Edit: It looks like I got the details wrong, but the principle correct! It was on the District Line between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park and it involved R Stock - link to an article here with the photo I had in my mind's eye when i wrote the above: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/21/newsid_2546000/2546071.stm. Note the transponder aerial on the front corner of the train in the photo.

Edited September 7, 2017 by SRman

[Coryton]

I would observe that the Guard in question was found 'not guilty' in a UK court and as such has set a legal president in that providing they are found to have complied fully with the necessary TOC roles regarding dispatch they will not be able to be found guilty in future.

 

Thus given the importance the U.K. common law legal system places on previous judgements to influence future prosocutions it is entirely reasonable to assume that the situation you mention is extremely unlikely to occur again.

 

It may be that the CPS will now be reluctant to attempt to bring a similar prosecution (I hope so!), but I don't think the reasoning above is quite right.

 

According to the reports now the case is over (and it seemed otherwise beforehand), the prosecution case was that the guard didn't follow the rules (not that even though he followed the rules he still committed an offence).

 

In any case, it is judges that set precedents in English law, not juries. 

[bimble]

saw a rail replacement bus on my way home last night, for 'South Western Trains'... 

[Gwiwer]

saw a rail replacement bus on my way home last night, for 'South Western Trains'... 

 

Saw the same here.  Buses do not normally serve Strawberry Hill as the road is considered too small and the many large trees present a hazard.  When we have rail replacement buses they normally stop a few minutes walk away at St. Mary's University which is on the 33 bus route.

 

Yesterday the depot had given their drivers route maps clearly marked up for coming through the village.  I encountered a red double-decker trying to make a three-point turn (without a banksman ) into a lay-by in order to follow the marked route.  Later in the day they had clearly been told they must not attempt the turn and were to stop 100 yards short of the station instead at a point where they could turn in a road junction.  And there was still no banksman.  

 

They also had problems in Teddington where Station Road was blocked by roadworks meaning the set-down point was around 600 yards from the station.  Some passengers were inconvenienced by the walk and train connections were missed.  

 

Those with roller blinds showed "Rail Replacement Service" as always but one with an electronic screen was showing "South Western Trains"

[jonathan452]

Disruption between Clapham Junction and Surbiton until end of the day - http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/171268.aspx

 

Waterloo delays: Londoners face fresh misery with disruption set to last all day - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/travelnews/waterloo-delays-londoners-face-fresh-misery-as-track-failure-sparks-more-disruption-a3631591.html

 

It means that virtually every day since Waterloo re-opened two weeks ago, following the £400 million rebuilding and a similar amount spent elsewhere on new tracks and signals, there have been problems.

 

[Gwiwer]

Not virtually.  Every day.

 

Not SWR's fault but it is the measure of a TOC to show their response to such problems.  SWR's response has been patchy, staff have at times been conspicuous by their absence when needed the most and it is in the normal order of things for late changes to be made to platforming, stopping patterns and even whether a train will actually run.

 

In that respect they have been no better than many other TOCs.  We might have hoped that they anticipated knock-on dramas after such a huge blockade and were prepared but it seems not.

[Southernman46]

Most of it is NR's fault to be fair ............................ see my many previous posts on how it was better in my time whilst managing infrastructure in Wessex ....................

 

It is becoming a bit wearing

 

I am now catching the train before, the train before, the train I need to get - just to guarantee getting to shift changeover on time - I am not permitted "11 minutes late - points failure at Raynes Park" that Sunshine Foods used to tolerate .........................

 

My tally of void days next season ticket renewal better bloody reflect all this ...............

 

 

 

EDIT - inserting the usual tally of missing words to make it sense now

Edited September 11, 2017 by Southernman46

[Fenman]

...

I am now catching the train before, the train before, the train I need to get - just to guarantee getting to shift changeover on time - I am not permitted "11 minutes late - points failure at Raynes Park" that Sunshine Foods used to tolerate .........................

...

 

 

O/T ramble...

 

My favourite was "11 minutes late due to hedgehog in the signalbox". Sheer genius.

 

Paul

[Southernman46]

And in my time (it wasn't that long ago either) - there were certain characters (and they were Railwaymen too) in Stagecoach/SWT who could and were prepared to deliver enough of a swift metaphorical kick up the jacksie to get a positive response from infrastructure .................... very different situation pervades these days - seems to be a sort of general ambivalence ................ anyway that's enough moaning and general retro hubris from me (for now) ....

[jim.snowdon]

Not virtually.  Every day.

 

Not SWR's fault but it is the measure of a TOC to show their response to such problems.  SWR's response has been patchy, staff have at times been conspicuous by their absence when needed the most and it is in the normal order of things for late changes to be made to platforming, stopping patterns and even whether a train will actually run.

 

In that respect they have been no better than many other TOCs.  We might have hoped that they anticipated knock-on dramas after such a huge blockade and were prepared but it seems not.

It all sounds rather similar to life under FGW (sorry, "GWR" - mustn't think of them as Firstgroup) - never tell the passengers what's going on or why they are late or why we've cancelled (ie non-stopped) your train so that the next one will be full, late and getting later by the stop, when it turns up.

 

Jim

[The Stationmaster]

It all sounds rather similar to life under FGW (sorry, "GWR" - mustn't think of them as Firstgroup) - never tell the passengers what's going on or why they are late or why we've cancelled (ie non-stopped) your train so that the next one will be full, late and getting later by the stop, when it turns up.

 

Jim

 

Don't worry Jim - everything will be ok when TfL take over (not)

[jonathan452]

Some of the people in my office received a voucher for a free coffee at Pumpkins (along with an 'apology' letter for the delays from South Western Railway) when they arrived at London Waterloo this morning.

 

I do hope they enjoy their coffee.

[PaulRhB]

158887 returned from refurb, time for a tea break!

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Zomboid]

That looks smarter than the 444

[Gwiwer]

Livery looks better at night for some reason. I've passed 444040 several times now and she's just a blur of grey. But at night under artificial lighting the stripes show up and the contrast is better.

[SwissRailPassion]

It's terrible.

[John M Upton]

Presumably the 158 is a proper paint job rather than the quick something for the launch vinyl effort on 444040?

 

Light grey roof for a diesel unit seems a bit daft....

[MGR Hooper!]

Can be termed as off-topic but I noticed on facebook that many British train enthusiasts are sending requests to join a "South Western Railways" group that's actually a dedicated train-enthusiast group for the South Western Railways (SWR) zone on the Indian Railways.

If anyone wants to join a "South Western Railway" or SWR is as you'll all know a UK based TOC, for which there's group here to share info and pictures of SWR trains (a train-spotters group, not an official one).

https://www.facebook.com/groups/365081487283447/

[Coryton]

Livery looks better at night for some reason. I've passed 444040 several times now and she's just a blur of grey. But at night under artificial lighting the stripes show up and the contrast is better.

 

Maybe it will grow on me. But for now the way the logo and lettering have been done (and indeed the company name) rather reminds me of the sort of train in a fictional livery that sometimes pops up on ebay, though I admit I'd be impressed if someone managed to get such a good finish on a model including all the stripes.

 

All the more shame that it's replacing what is/was one of my favourite modern liveries.

[PaulRhB]

Presumably the 158 is a proper paint job rather than the quick something for the launch vinyl effort on 444040?

 

Light grey roof for a diesel unit seems a bit daft....

It's vinyls, they all are now. It will be interesting to see if they change the interior cushions later as it is still in red and blue. Edited October 6, 2017 by PaulRhB