Barnt Green to Bromsgrove Electrification

[Supaned]

I'm only quoting RTT which shows the diagram for 158s

Looking at "real" trains they are often different to what RTT lists, 170s seem a possibility, as they run the current  Birmingham -Worcester-Hereford services

The other day I spotted a freight that was listed as electrically hauled 75mph. but some of it's route wasn't wired, the train loco was the inevitable 66.

 

Keith

 

More likely to be a 170 as several LM ones sit on TS during the day between peak hour jobs - efficient use of resources etc.

[CovDriver]

I can assure anyone the service won't be happening before December at the very earliest there is over 100 drivers and the same guatds to learn the route and that's just New St depot.

I've heard a rumour that our depot won't be learning it so that's telling us we won't have cross city on our route card for long. And when it comes to OHLE being put up the Rugeley route well behind schedule I can't see that happening this year.

[melmerby]

Something occured to me about the training runs. (5T60, 5T61 etc.)

How do they turn back at Barnt Green after running up from Bromsgrove?

There isn't a turn back at the station but RTT dosn't show them running beyond Barnt Green.

 

Keith

Edited April 13, 2018 by melmerby

[Supaned]

Something occured to me about the training runs. (5T60, 5T61 etc.)

How do they turn back at Barnt Green after running up from Bromsgrove?

There isn't a turn back at the station but RTT dosn't show them running beyond Barnt Green.

 

Keith

 

Presumably they go onto the up slow line and turn back behind the signal there specifically for that purpose

[Titan]

Presumably they go onto the up slow line and turn back behind the signal there specifically for that purpose

 

Is that the same movement that a banking engine might make to return to Bromsgrove?

[BWSR]

I can assure anyone the service won't be happening before December at the very earliest there is over 100 drivers and the same guatds to learn the route and that's just New St depot.

I've heard a rumour that our depot won't be learning it so that's telling us we won't have cross city on our route card for long. And when it comes to OHLE being put up the Rugeley route well behind schedule I can't see that happening this year.

 

According to a speaker from Network Rail at the local Rail User Group Meeting last month, driver training will take 12 weeks . The first train is expected to run on 29th July

[iands]

Something occured to me about the training runs. (5T60, 5T61 etc.)

How do they turn back at Barnt Green after running up from Bromsgrove?

There isn't a turn back at the station but RTT dosn't show them running beyond Barnt Green.

 

Keith

Keith,

 

If you can, try watching the movements on either OpenTrainTimes or Tracksy. 5T61 has just turned back on the Up slow just to the north of Barnt Green (as prediced by Supaned).

 

Regards, Ian

[iands]

Is that the same movement that a banking engine might make to return to Bromsgrove?

Most banking engines will drop off at Blackwell, on to the 'engine lie by' siding to await a path back to Bromsgrove. An occasional one might go a bit further on to the Up Slow (passed Barnt Green) to turn back, but I don't think that is a regular move.

 

Regards, Ian.

[melmerby]

Is that the same movement that a banking engine might make to return to Bromsgrove?

No there is a special centre loop at Blackwell for that move.

After dropping off they reverse back into the loop to await a path back down.

 

Barnt Green is another block further on

 

Keith

 

Edit Beaten to it by Ian

 

Here is the signalling diagram:

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/bromsgrove

 

(Scroll to the right for Bromsgrove)

Signal 1613 to reverse into the lie-by and 7607 to return down the Lickey

Edited April 13, 2018 by melmerby

[Edwin_m]

When I last looked into this (a few years ago now) DBC had a couple of 66s fitted with a special coupler that could be disconnected remotely, for use on the Lickey.  There was an instruction that if these didn't separate at Blackwell the whole train had to carry on rather than making another attempt.  So I guess uncoupling and reversal at Barnt Green might happen in that situation. 

 

However there are so few trains needing assistance these days that the banker is probably going to need to go back to depot, in which case it might be more sensible to leave it coupled to the train as far as say Washwood Heath and save a path. 

[melmerby]

When I last looked into this (a few years ago now) DBC had a couple of 66s fitted with a special coupler that could be disconnected remotely, for use on the Lickey.  There was an instruction that if these didn't separate at Blackwell the whole train had to carry on rather than making another attempt.  So I guess uncoupling and reversal at Barnt Green might happen in that situation. 

 

Why don't they just push like they used to do in the old days?

The track layout was designed so that the banking loco(s) could drop off and then run back into the lie by until cleared for descent back to Bromsgrove

I've seen films where the back one drops back first followed by the next one and so on until they were all off then they would make their way back into the lie-by

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited April 13, 2018 by melmerby

[Titan]

Why don't they just push like they used to do in the old days?

The track layout was designed so that the banking loco(s) could drop off and then run back into the lie by until cleared for decent back to Bromsgrove

I've seen films where the back one drops back first followed by the next one and so on until they were all off then they would make their way back into the lie-by

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

It might be for pushing trains with AAR couplers - you  can't push one of those without being automatically coupled, so you need a means of uncoupling on the move unless you want to bring the train to a stop.

[Edwin_m]

It might be for pushing trains with AAR couplers - you  can't push one of those without being automatically coupled, so you need a means of uncoupling on the move unless you want to bring the train to a stop.

Yes, pretty sure it was an AAR coupler.  These have a lever to uncouple them so there was probably some kind of cable linking it to a handle in the cab.  There was a lot of coal from Avonmouth using the Lickey at the time (Freightliner took the long diversion via Shrewsbury for reasons including avoiding the Lickey) and those big hoppers have never had buffers or coupling hooks. 

[melmerby]

A question for those on the "big" railway.

 

What exactly would driver familiarisation consist of?

I assume the DMUs from Tyseley will be crewed by Tyseley men/women.

Would those learning the Cross City extension sit in whilst being driven by the Tyseley driver?

 

Once the route is energised presumably EMUs can be used and would the Cross City crew then drive with a Tyseley driver sitting in for guidance. Or isn't that how it's done?

 

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited April 13, 2018 by melmerby

[CovDriver]

No Tyseley Drivers I believe they only operate on the depot itself. But this could be an option as Worcester traincrew already sign the route we could route learn with them but that isn't ideal as we need the handling experience up and down the bank. I've had a look at our new diagrams/turns for the summer timetable and we've got a couple of trips to Bromsgrove on the AM turns.

So I'll be learning it soon I'd imagine.

But then again New St traincrew already sign diesels just not the route. I'll do some investigating and I can give a better reply.

 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Supaned]

New St and Worcester drivers sign via Bromsgrove for the Hereford services. I'd imagine the 170 would be worked by New St drivers , and it will be mainly New St men learning the route , with other depots as applicable.

[CovDriver]

New St and Worcester drivers sign via Bromsgrove for the Hereford services. I'd imagine the 170 would be worked by New St drivers , and it will be mainly New St men learning the route , with other depots as applicable.

We've got two diagrams in the morning with trips to Bromsgrove I'm not sure on the afternoon trips as I'm an AM turn only man so it'll be New St, Wolverhampton and Coventry.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Christopher125]

Seems Mentor has paid a visit to check the wires:

 

37099 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr

[Titan]

Seems Mentor has paid a visit to check the wires:

 

37099 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr

 

I wonder if any tests require a run at line speed in both directions - could be fun! 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Titan

[melmerby]

I wonder if any tests require a run at line speed in both directions - could be fun! 

IIRC I read that at Bromsgrove Platform 3, Down Slow (first choice for Cross-City), is 30mph. Platform 2, Up Fast (second choice), is 90mph.

 

Seems Mentor has paid a visit to check the wires:

 

37099 by Thomas Stobbs, on Flickr

Went Up & Down several times according to RTT

Reversals at King's Norton

 

Keith

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Tonight a pair of 323s became the first EMUs to reach Bromsgrove and climb the Lickey Incline. Pictures on Facebook.

 

Also, the new timetable gives details of cross-city services to Bromsgrove, along with a note saying the start date is still unconfirmed and until then Bromsgrove trains terminate at Longbridge. 3tph Monday to Saturday, 2tph Sundays. Only 1tph stops at Barnt Green though, the others go fast to Longbridge.

 

Sam

[Christopher125]

This has been uploaded to youtube showing the first EMUs leaving Bromsgrove:

 

[melmerby]

RTT shows class 323 for driver training runs.

 

Looks like the service could start in July as forecast.

 

Keith

 

EDIT and we have had the first conflict.

 

5T83 (the 323s being used for training) was sitting in platform 2 when the 1M80 XC service should have had a clean run at the Lickey.

It had to go around via platform 1 losing 3 minutes in the process.

Shows the effect of the difference in track speeds from the odd layout adopted.

Edited May 20, 2018 by melmerby

[CovDriver]

July the 29th for a service start up with the 323's I'm still waiting for my road learning day in a 170 as there isn't any spare 323's during the day for the road learning trips.

The service must be double 323 in case a traction converter goes pop on a single unit.

 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[wombatofludham]

Nice to see progress on this, when I remember the woeful single platform, infrequent service Bromsgrove used to have this must seem like real progress.

 

I wonder if the new Bombardier Aventras will be Lickey-proof? I always thought the 323 was quite a powerful unit with aluminium bodies and a good power to weight ratio but the idea they will only be allowed up the Lickey in pairs in case a traction pack goes suggests perhaps things are a bit more marginal. Or am I misreading the situation?