Barnt Green to Bromsgrove Electrification

[Robert Shrives]

Hi 

Not marginal in any way good units but how do you rescue a failure - since rest of traffic on the line has differing couplers and fitting emergency couplers needs a fitter now and nodoubt hours of fannying about to get  loco/ drivers. Taking your rescue unit with you speeds things up as the cheapskate programme does not have birectional working on both lines no south west end crossovers allowing trains to turnback as any logical railway staff would have specified.

 

At least the customer wins a lot of seats on this bit of the route - until autumn and the wheel flat season takes its toll and the service is cut out or cut back to a pitiful service level.  Still no sign of the NW sets coming to join the rest at Soho is that still on the cards?

 

Not being three negative it is very good to see this long wanted improvement come to fruition and well done to all involved in whatever way, it is easy to armchair the job much harder to do it for real. 

 

Robert  

[melmerby]

Hi 

 Taking your rescue unit with you speeds things up as the cheapskate programme does not have birectional working on both lines no south west end crossovers allowing trains to turnback as any logical railway staff would have specified.

 

Robert  

I think you will find the "cheapskate" programme as you call it was because it was not instigated by NR but mainly by the former Centro (with other interested parties) and only the money to do what they wanted was going to be available.

Any other enhancements not primarily for Cross City Line use would have to be paid by other interests and none was forthcoming.

You can't gold plate a project if the customer (Centro et al) isn't paying for it.

What we have is what railwaymen have designed within the scope of the requirements.

 

I still think not electrifying platform 1 (up slow) as reserve for Cross City trains) instead of platform 2 (up fast) was a mistake as my previous post shows.

 

The trailing crossover from platform 3 is within the station throat, so that Cross City trains in platform 3 can depart without conflicting southbound through services.

The facing crossover to access platforms 1 & 2 from the north isn't, so platform 1 (or maybe both?) could have been wired allowing Cross City trains to use platform 1,  the up slow as reserve.

 

Keith

[wombatofludham]

I think you will find the "cheapskate" programme as you call it was because it was not instigated by NR but mainly by the former Centro (with other interested parties) and only the money to do what they wanted was going to be available.

Any other enhancements not primarily for Cross City Line use would have to be paid by other interests and none was forthcoming.

You can't gold plate a project if the customer (Centro et al) isn't paying for it.

What we have is what railwaymen have designed within the scope of the requirements.

 

I still think not electrifying platform 1 (up slow) as reserve for Cross City trains) instead of platform 2 (up fast) was a mistake as my previous post shows.

 

The trailing crossover from platform 3 is within the station throat, so that Cross City trains in platform 3 can depart without conflicting southbound through services.

The facing crossover to access platforms 1 & 2 from the north isn't, so platform 1 (or maybe both?) could have been wired allowing Cross City trains to use platform 1,  the up slow as reserve.

 

Keith

 

Shades of the original X City electrification. I was told when I worked at Centro that part of the reason why the Class 323 was specified was that their planned performance over the Class 321 needed fewer trains, and used less energy which meant no new substations were needed although if I recall existing feeds elsewhere in the Midlands network were beefed up to cater for the extensions. Talking of which, has this scheme needed any new electricity feeder stations?

 

 

I can see running a six car unit up the Lickey means you have your built in Thunderbird should something go wrong, I should have thought of that.

[Zomboid]

How many traction converters does a 323 have? I could imagine that if they've got 2, then having 3/4 available would give them better chance of getting up the hill than 1/2 would.

Though will they be allowed down the hill with one out?

[CovDriver]

Yes there are 2 TCU's (Traction Converter) per unit it's so slow gaining speed if one of those goes pop.

But 3 out of 4 available in a double set shouldn't make much difference we shall see.

It's the stopping at the bottom I'm concerned about during the slippy/slide season more commonly known as leaf fall.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Robert Shrives]

Yes there are 2 TCU's (Traction Converter) per unit it's so slow gaining speed if one of those goes pop.

But 3 out of 4 available in a double set shouldn't make much difference we shall see.

It's the stopping at the bottom I'm concerned about during the slippy/slide season more commonly known as leaf fall.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

Yes , we all are as wires do not go that far - I recall albeit a tanker train getting it on and signaller saw it and cleared out to Stoke Works junction , driver had brake full in and said to secondman , well it will stop eventually - I think issue of brake pipe cock up caused that one. Also a 121 bubble on the Barnt green shuttle that had been left with brake in lap and lost vacuum and sped to the  merriement of kids on board through Barnt greed - luckily after the down platform had been reinstated, driver had belled guard to front to get him to apply hand brake in rear cab - he was too embarrassed to be seen steering it seemed...  

Hopefully the lighter 323 will be ok and with a double it will hopefully only take another double to venture out and recover - this happened at Didcot the other week when a set was signaled and went on to a permanently dead section....

Robert      

[Robert Shrives]

As Melmerby says my "cheapskate" was a cheap jibe - apologies to offended parties but with NR being the Steward of the network it has fallen short of its responisibilites if it could not  see the risk to overall network operation and perhaps managerial challenged not to workout benefits that would have been wise with even half a minute of 20/20 hindsight.  

 

I find it maddening as a route controller that the scheme has failed operators and users alike that even school children have seen through. A young lad of a friend from nearby asked about wiring and points when on the station looking at Colas 37s ! Still it will keep me in a job.

 

I do hope it gets used really well and even gets extended to Worcester Parkway in the fullness of time - Bristol would be better but that would require a bit more than joined up thinking I fear..!     

[jamie92208]

As Melmerby says my "cheapskate" was a cheap jibe - apologies to offended parties but with NR being the Steward of the network it has fallen short of its responisibilites if it could not  see the risk to overall network operation and perhaps managerial challenged not to workout benefits that would have been wise with even half a minute of 20/20 hindsight.  

 

I find it maddening as a route controller that the scheme has failed operators and users alike that even school children have seen through. A young lad of a friend from nearby asked about wiring and points when on the station looking at Colas 37s ! Still it will keep me in a job.

 

I do hope it gets used really well and even gets extended to Worcester Parkway in the fullness of time - Bristol would be better but that would require a bit more than joined up thinking I fear..!     

 

To be fair to the much maligned Railtrack, this sort of thing did happen sometimes under their stewardship.  The one I know about is part of the Leeds reconstruction over the Millennium.  The original scheme retained the single track across the avoiding line (Wellington curve) from Engine Shed junction then across Whitehall junction.   There was only a single track across the four approach tracks to Leeds from the West thus restricting the layout to accommodate one movement per hour n the avoiding line on and off the S & C.  Railtrack funded a full double track layout that allowed a train to be held either side of Whitehall Junction so that both could cross during one slot.  As the coal traffic to the Aire Valley took off this became a really usefull piece of infrastructure.

 

Jamie

[melmerby]

I suppose it would be nice if NR always had the available funds for a gold standard upgrade when doing projects,

but unfortunately it hasn't and with some projects being driven by outside interests their hands are somewhat tied on what they can deliver.

 

As regards extra power feeds,could this gubbins be to do with one?

 

I must go and look at the finished kit and see what we have.

 

Here is a close up of what is quite clearly a HV circuit breaker.

How can you "break" if you don't have a "feed"?

 

 

Keith

Edited May 21, 2018 by melmerby

[Titan]

It looks like a switch to go around a section insulator. Required to isolate discreet sections of wire for maintenance or fault isolation.

[melmerby]

It looks like a switch to go around a section insulator. Required to isolate discreet sections of wire for maintenance or fault isolation.

This is at Railway Walk footbridge which is the Southern limit of the wiring.

 

Keith

[Zomboid]

You can't see any of the workings of a HV circuit breaker - It's all inside a vacuum bottle these days.

[Christopher125]

I still think not electrifying platform 1 (up slow) as reserve for Cross City trains) instead of platform 2 (up fast) was a mistake as my previous post shows.

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood, but aren't they all electrified? They certainly appear to be,

Edited May 21, 2018 by Christopher125

[Titan]

This is at Railway Walk footbridge which is the Southern limit of the wiring.

 

Keith

 

In which case it could well be remotely operated earthing switches.

 

You can't see any of the workings of a HV circuit breaker - It's all inside a vacuum bottle these days.

 

That is only true of switches that are operated under load. Most switches for isolating purposes are just simple blade type, and they should be operated with no train or other load in section.

[caradoc]

As Melmerby says my "cheapskate" was a cheap jibe - apologies to offended parties but with NR being the Steward of the network it has fallen short of its responisibilites if it could not  see the risk to overall network operation and perhaps managerial challenged not to workout benefits that would have been wise with even half a minute of 20/20 hindsight.  

 

I find it maddening as a route controller that the scheme has failed operators and users alike that even school children have seen through. A young lad of a friend from nearby asked about wiring and points when on the station looking at Colas 37s ! Still it will keep me in a job.

 

I do hope it gets used really well and even gets extended to Worcester Parkway in the fullness of time - Bristol would be better but that would require a bit more than joined up thinking I fear..!     

 

As a Controller (former) too I agree 100% with the frustrations that limited infrastructure provision can cause whenever things aren't working as planned, the prime example of this from my own experience being the Borders Railway: This is undoubtedly a magnificent achievement but the long single line sections make it truly an operator's nightmare. However, if costs were not contained in such a way, would the railway ever have been (re)built at all ?

[Zomboid]

That is only true of switches that are operated under load. Most switches for isolating purposes are just simple blade type, and they should be operated with no train or other load in section.

Such things aren't circuit breakers though (at least not to me - a CB has fault break capability). You get vacuum bottles on load break disconnectors as well.

Don't you need the power off to operate a switch like the one pictured? Pretty sure you don't open a DC hookswitch with the con rail live, but not sure on 25kV. I know I wouldn't want to be pulling the handle at least.

[melmerby]

Apologies if I've misunderstood, but aren't they all electrified? They certainly appear to be,

No, unless there was a last minute change.

The plan was to have the inner tracks only wired, although the infrastructure was to be arranged so they can be without modification by affixing the supports to the existing steelwork.

The arrangements were as follows, starting from the ticket office:

Platform 1 - Up slow, not electrified.

Platform 2 - Up fast, electrified.

Platform 3 - Down slow, electrified.

Platform 4 - Down fast, not electrified.

 

Cross City trains will normally terminate in Platform 3, if it is not available then platform 2

Cross Country trains, the vast majority of which do not stop at Bromsgrove use platforms 2 & 4 and sail through at line speed.

Freight trains requiring assistance (not many) will halt in platform 1 for the attachment of a banker. There is still a bank engine siding at the south end.

The turnout from the up main to up slow south of the station is a low speed junction severly impacting on train speed for a non stopper.

 

Cheers

 

keith

 

Edit maybe someone can clarify whether the outer tracks did get wires as I haven't looked since it was completed, looking at a few pictures does suggest all tracks were wired in the end.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Obtg4fMYCwk/maxresdefault.jpg

 

2nd Edit definitely all 4 platforms.

Was this a late change adding to the delay in finishing the project as the masts had at one time acquired most of the fittings for wires on platforms 2 & 3 but nothing on 1 or 4?

Edited May 22, 2018 by melmerby

[Swindon 123]

No, unless there was a last minute change.

The plan was to have the inner tracks only wired, although the infrastructure was to be arranged so they can be without modification by affixing the supports to the existing steelwork.

The arrangements were as follows, starting from the ticket office:

Platform 1 - Up slow, not electrified.

Platform 2 - Up fast, electrified.

Platform 3 - Down slow, electrified.

Platform 4 - Down fast, not electrified.

 

Cross City trains will normally terminate in Platform 3, if it is not available then platform 2

Cross Country trains, the vast majority of which do not stop at Bromsgrove use platforms 2 & 4 and sail through at line speed.

Freight trains requiring assistance (not many) will halt in platform 1 for the attachment of a banker. There is still a bank engine siding at the south end.

The turnout from the up main to up slow south of the station is a low speed junction severly impacting on train speed for a non stopper.

 

Cheers

 

keith

 

Edit maybe someone can clarify whether the outer tracks did get wires as I haven't looked since it was completed, looking at a few pictures does suggest all tracks were wired in the end.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Obtg4fMYCwk/maxresdefault.jpg

 

2nd Edit definitely all 4 platforms.

Was this a late change adding to the delay in finishing the project as the masts had at one time acquired most of the fittings for wires on platforms 2 & 3 but nothing on 1 or 4?

Travelled through Bromsgrove station on my way to New St today, and No1 platform is definately wired, as I think No 4 was when I looked across. I didn't see any signs of them being isolated from the 25Kv supply, as Pl1 definately had an insulation joint in the overheads just north os the overbridge to the south of the station.

 

Paul J.

Edited to correct awful spelling!

Edited May 22, 2018 by Swindon 123

[Gareth 73]

All 4 platforms are wired and live tho what use platform 4 will be is anyone's quess. U can put a unit on there but no way of signalling it back to Brum. For the sake of a bit of wire out to the slow beyond 3/4 where there's a gpl to set back into 3. Oh well yet another lost opportunity with bromsgrove but a chance to take bets which signalman will cock it up (prob me)

[melmerby]

All 4 platforms are wired and live tho what use platform 4 will be is anyone's quess. U can put a unit on there but no way of signalling it back to Brum. For the sake of a bit of wire out to the slow beyond 3/4 where there's a gpl to set back into 3. Oh well yet another lost opportunity with bromsgrove but a chance to take bets which signalman will cock it up (prob me)

Maybe someone, whilst the project was underway, realised that if (when?) the electrification gets to Worcester, it could be done without affecting Bromsgrove Station if it was all wired up now?

Just needs another signalling upgrade!

 

Keith

[Zomboid]

It's probably basically overrun protection through platform 4. Quite a common provision, and it'll be easier to rescue a train that has no signalled moves available than one that has no signalled moves and no ability to move itself as and when that error does occur.

 

With finite money you can only do so much. There's loads of little things that could be added to every project to make it that bit better, but not all of them add up to a worthwhile use of funds.

[Swindon 123]

One thing I did notice when travelling through the station was, that the overbridge to the south of the station at the end of Railway Walk, according to Google Maps, which is only accessing fields, has very little clearance to the overhead wires going under it. They almost touch it, and would not be able to carry any voltage through them, hence the isolation sections in the OHL just station side of the bridge. For the wires to go through and further south, that bridge would have to be raised/replaced.

 

Paul J.

[caradoc]

It's probably basically overrun protection through platform 4. Quite a common provision, and it'll be easier to rescue a train that has no signalled moves available than one that has no signalled moves and no ability to move itself as and when that error does occur.

 

With finite money you can only do so much. There's loads of little things that could be added to every project to make it that bit better, but not all of them add up to a worthwhile use of funds.

 

Many years ago, before the route from Rutherglen East Junction to Whifflet was electrified, an Up Argyle Line passenger train was wrongly routed and became dewired. Staff attended on the ground and advised that the overrun OLE went far enough to allow another EMU to come in behind the stranded train and haul it back under the wires. Needless to say, it did not, and the assisting train almost became dewired as well. IIRC we eventually had to get a diesel loco to rescue the stranded set; It was there for hours and the disruption to the service was immense. Thankfully a similar situation should not occur at Bromsgrove !

Edited May 23, 2018 by caradoc

[ess1uk]

Good to see this up and running

[CovDriver]

Looks like I've got my route learning trips on Wednesday afternoon this week with an instructor and a 170 this will be my first and last time driving a 170.

I've been looking forward to this for sometime now.

 

Cheers

 

Colin